I'm getting ripped off on my lease, right?

[Red_Dust]

I highly doubt the OP will become a more important client for this trainer now after feeling being taken advantage of.
I know I would not buy a helm of grass from them now.

@RR_John_885
Chalk it up as tuition to the school of hard knocks.
You didn’t know what questions to ask and the trainer/owner happily unloaded his current cost on you.
Seems as things go the price you paid $$ wise is still within the market range.
However the cost in trust, only you can decide if it was a bridge too far for you.

[beowulf]

There’s certainly something to be said when a specific brand saturates the market. It indirectly suggests turnover within the brand. Could be quality issues, poorly educated reps, etc

I have a custom BC. Still fits my horse 4 years later and it fits my young horse. I know there’s a market for BC because when I was shopping last fall, noticed they went fast and held value well. I ended up buying one local from a lovely lady who was only selling it because her horse passed (RIP) and she was moving out of the country.

I moved the custom Stubben along pretty quickly once it was clear it would never fit my horse or any others I owned.

[fivestrideline]

@RR_John_885

I bought a saddle with pro panels and I’m hearing from other posters that maybe what my trainer told me initially wasn’t necessarily an intentional mistruth and I will be able to use it on other horses

There are definitely horses out there that this saddle will fit! The reality is that one saddle will never fit “every” horse… and CWD is not the most forgiving of builds and cannot be easily adjusted. However, it will likely serve you well (along with a decent shim pad), and allow you to ride a lot of horses once or twice with no issue.

I agree with the poster that said if you look at a lease horse again to check the fit of your saddle before signing. Learn a bit about saddle fitting basics (there’s more than “does it clear the withers”, but it ain’t rocket science either). Think hard before you lease something that is an atrocious fit, unless you are provided with a fitting saddle that works for you (or you’re ready to purchase another saddle).

Don’t beat yourself up. Most of us here who saw red flags only saw them because we have been exactly in your shoes before - you learned a lesson here, and you didn’t have to buy a horse or spend 5 years learning it! You will walk into your next adventure more knowledgeable and armed with better questions. There ARE good horsepeople out there, including hunter trainers (gasp!). Don’t burn bridges before you build them by badmouthing this pro, but keep asking questions and go have fun!

[Bristol_Bay]

@beowulf

I doubt you’ll ever hear of a BC rep conning someone out of $9k…

It’s not a con job if he bought a saddle custom to him that will fit a lot of horses. Overpriced, yes. Con job, no.

I have bought a custom CWD and when that never fit my horse, I bought a custom Voltaire that never fit me. Both were impossible to sell because of the unusual configuration my high withered horse needed. I had the panels replaced with pro panels on both and sold them instantly. I bought my current saddle used and have no doubt it will be easy to move along when the time comes.

[Midge]

@Renn_aissance

I disagree with the premise that a pro-rate of the vet expenses should have been expected. Say the horse’s annual maintenance schedule is that he gets injections and a loading dose of Adequan in October and April. If that’s true, the horse’s maintenance needs have been paid for for 3 months of the lease, but on someone else’s dime, because the previous caretaker paid for a therapy that lasts this horse about 6 months. So why shouldn’t the current lessee pay for the horse’s maintenance now, having benefited from someone else’s expenditure into keeping the horse comfortable to teach the OP?

Prorated means he would spend four months worth of costs. so he would pay two thirds of the six month Adequan, one third of the yearly dental, etc.

[Renn_aissance]

@Midge

Prorated means he would spend four months worth of costs. so he would pay two thirds of the six month Adequan, one third of the yearly dental, etc.

I understand what “pro-rated” means. I simply don’t agree that any model of paying part of the vet expenses incurred during the lease fee instead of all of them should have been a natural expectation because of the term of the lease, versus a point of discussion when negotiating the contract.

[clanter]

@Bristol_Bay

It’s not a con job if he bought a saddle custom to him that will fit a lot of horses.

I wonder about that since he received the saddle in such a short time, ( less than two months?). I suspect his saddle was a return or a demo if there was one

[endlessclimb]

@Renn_aissance

So why shouldn’t the current lessee pay for the horse’s maintenance now, having benefited from someone else’s expenditure into keeping the horse comfortable to teach the OP?

It’s up to the trainer to pro-rate appropriately in order to ensure the maintenance is covered. If there isn’t an active lease, the owner of the horse, not the leaser, is on the hook for the maintenance fees.

[fordtraktor]

If he bought one with pro panels they probably keep those more or less in stock in about every flap size. OP hasn’t said he’s some sort of unusual shape other than being male. I’m a woman but I tend to fit man size saddles because I’m 5’10 and all legs… I’ve sat in premade or used saddles from about every brand that fit me.

I don’t think a custom CWD is the worst choice around because there is a huge market for them. I wouldn’t recommend anyone buy a truly custom saddle for a lease of any kind because by the time you get it the lease is half over. Pro panels are the way to go during the leasing stage of life, when the horses you ride are changing more or less annually or less.

I say this as someone who has not one but three $$$$ truly custom saddles for her personal horses. I keep my horses long term so it’s worth getting something truly made for them – but the jump saddle I have for the sport I do least (I’m mostly dressage) is a Tad Coffin and I can get it to fit about any horse well enough with the right half pad. Not sure my husband would be thrilled if I bought each horse a custom jump saddle and rode in it a few dozen times a year at most! He doesn’t usually question my horse spending but that’s a year’s tuition for my kids’ school…

[Annie10]

@RR_John_885

@Bogie

In the end, not being upfront has cause her/him the chance to keep leasing you a horse.

Reflecting on it, this was one of the big reasons why I didn’t get suspicious before I got hit with the $275 charge for the clip. My trainer knew I was interested in competing/working with them long term…I thought they would have an incentive to treat me well and keep me happy? Had they done so I would’ve spent thousands more.

I guess some folks just can’t help themselves when they see an opportunity for an easy dollar? Certainly I had “I’M NEW HERE” written on my forehead the first time I walked into the barn.

They were hoping to feed you bs, keep you in the dark and keep taking your money.
Horse trainers have a reputation for that in the H/j world and it’s well earned. Not all, mind you, but many and you don’t know who until you run up on one.

[Room_for_a_Pony]

@Bogie

From what I’ve heard, there’s a significant restocking fee if they take the saddles back.

The “restocking fee” is $2,000.

[beowulf]

@Bristol_Bay

It’s not a con job if he bought a saddle custom to him that will fit a lot of horses. Overpriced, yes. Con job, no.

I have bought a custom CWD and when that never fit my horse, I bought a custom Voltaire that never fit me. Both were impossible to sell because of the unusual configuration my high withered horse needed. I had the panels replaced with pro panels on both and sold them instantly. I bought my current saddle used and have no doubt it will be easy to move along when the time comes.

I’m just going off of context here: OP’s a new rider, new to the sport, new to jumping, and doesn’t have a horse. In terms of ethics, I’m not sure the best first step for a novice rider is a near five-figure purchase that rivals the downpayment on a brand new vehicle.

That’s before assuming the trainer is actually a competent fitter and not just another trainer-rep who hung out their shingle. From everything OP’s shared, I’m not sure. Hoping it does as advertises and fits a variety of horses - the problem is more there’s no guarantee OP’s next lease horse will even be compatible. So no, I wouldn’t have said a custom CWD is the right direction for OP if I was the trainer.

I’m glad when CWD does work for people. I hope it does in this case.

[findeight]

Lets be real here and point out horse traders are not restricted to the Hunter Jumper side.

Have been personally taken advantage of by practitioners in barns dedicated to 2 major disciplines and 3 distinct breeds since 1970 and some of these were far better at it than this trainer.

[dags]

@RR_John_885

Reflecting on it, this was one of the big reasons why I didn’t get suspicious before I got hit with the $275 charge for the clip. My trainer knew I was interested in competing/working with them long term…I thought they would have an incentive to treat me well and keep me happy? Had they done so I would’ve spent thousands more.

I guess some folks just can’t help themselves when they see an opportunity for an easy dollar? Certainly I had “I’M NEW HERE” written on my forehead the first time I walked into the barn.

To clarify before I begin, I think this trainer failed this client miserably.

But I’m also getting a strong sense that OP does not fully grasp all the costs that will be involved in this journey. Trainers do not make a killing leasing out a 25 year-old horse for a showing job when it could just sit around making lesson income and needing half the maintenance, and everything listed is inline with keeping a 25 year-old horse sound for showing. Whether annual maintenance (dental et al) should be the responsibility of a 4-month lease is definitely a valid question, but it would be considered standard for a year lease. All of these things would fall under the lessee’s responsibility if that’s what it took to keep the horse happy and sound for lessee’s goals, fly mask included.

OP, this is what it costs to keep a living, breathing animal happy and healthy while it carts you around towards whatever human dictated goal has been imposed on it. I’m not saying you are wrong in your frustration here at all, but I am getting a whiff of “sports equipment” in terms of how you view this older veteran of our sport. I don’t care how long the lease is, a body clip is absolutely lessee’s responsibility. I was charging $150 in 2002 for those things so close to $300 in 2025 doesn’t surprise me. And I promise you that the “help” doing those clip jobs probably do a MUCH better job than your standard professional horse trainer

Any “incentive” they have should be towards the senior horse that has probably served their program well for many, many years. No doubt you are one of dozens of people that have walked in and out of this horse’s life. He very well could be Barn Royalty. They were dead wrong not to inform you upfront as to what it costs to keep this old boy going, but you might also consider that that horse has far more value to them than you do.

[Belmont]

This.

Not to mention, the kick backs aren’t a commission. Trainers are required to sell X amount of NEW and used saddles in their barn per year in order to get a free (if you’re a top top trainer) or trainer discounted saddle. They do get discounts on tack, free hats, etc. However, when I was leaving 6+ years ago - they were cracking down on trainer contracts and pulling back a lot of the Oprah style giveaways.

So yes - your trainer probably unfortunately thought you could afford such a saddle and maybe you’re a hard fit, as a lot of males are, which means the used market was small for that. However, I’m going to assume they put you in “pro” or ST panels, which you can usually make work on most horses unless they are oddly shaped. Plus, I wouldn’t get a custom horse-fitted saddle made for a 4 month lease…

Anyway. Those prices are pretty on par with a top show barn, and you did agree to pay vet and farrier. While, I agree, maybe those bi-annual and annual costs should be at least split, if your contract doesn’t say anything about it… you’re stuck with it. Which is a crappy lesson to learn, and I’m sorry you’re having to learn it that way.

Next time you lease- spell everything out, down to what “kind” of vet care. All my lease contracts had specifications of what I was responsible for vs the owner when it came to care, farrier, vet, insurance, etc. Also - let’s keep in mind you didn’t pay an upfront lease fee. While the horse is 25, he could be an excellent teacher and quality animal, and you got away with not having to pay that fee. Heck, a lot of 2 week show leases with top barns are more than what you’re paying in 4 months of board and lessons alone.

[beowulf]

Aren’t most saddles designed for men?

Isn’t that the whole schtick of Schleese saddlery?

[Bristol_Bay]

Why would they be? It’s mostly women amateurs who make up the sport. Maybe coming from a dressage perspective, there are brands that claim to fit men or women better (maybe Albion?) but a flatter seat close contact saddle is more of a universal fit. In CWD, the Mademoiselle would be an exception to that.

[Belmont]

Traditionally sure. However, as saddles have developed over the decades, they’ve changed and added more options to accommodate the comfort of women - and then many (CWD, Schleese, etc) have gone on to manufacture “womens saddles”. However, to be totally fair, every body is different. Men, women, etc. Some of us prefer narrow twists, extra narrow, or even wide - just depending on how you’re built.

What I mean as hard fit, is if he’s an 18" or bigger OR needs a 4C or 4L+ flap. If OP needed any modifications beyond a 18" 3C and liked one certain model - its very possible there were no used saddles.

What is funny is a lot of men actually ride in a Mademoiselle, CWD’s “womens saddle”!

[tabula_rashah]

I’m also going to throw my vote in with the trainer is taking advantage of you crowd.

She charged you $275 to clip her OWN horse??? (she owns him right? or did I miss read that)

[2bayboys]

I don’t think you’ve been ripped off as the prices you listed seem to be within reasonable range of typical for a top show barn. The failure here is in the trainer not explaining to you all of the costs associated with maintaining the horse, especially an older schoolmaster.