Important news!! WFFS is finally recognized

[skydy]

@vineyridge

From frozen semen with the test done in the US, not from a test by the stallion owner in Germany.

According to the UC Davis facebook page linked by Manni01, the rate varies widely among registries, with the highest rate the Hanoverians at 20% and Westfalens 2nd at 14%. That seems to be from the tests that UC Davis has performed, most probably from horses present in North America. They have tested 7 Swedish Warmbloods and found no carriers, but the trait is known to exist in Swedish Warmbloods.

Why does it matter that frozen semen has been tested and not fresh? Does it matter that the testing is done by breeders or registries at this point in time? It’s early days yet and mare owners can test their mares and whatever semen they are using for their mares.

As long as A.I. is king, there will be no hiding a stallion’s status as a carrier. Mare owners will be able to test the stallion even if the registry or SO chooses not to take responsibility for testing. I think the better breeders will test their stallions. If they don’t, somebody else will.

[Marydell]

If you click on the UC Davis photo and scroll down, there have been Knaubstrupers and TB(American bred Jockey club) that have tested positive for WFFS. Those tests were run on archived DNA and not by the registries or owners as part of the research on WFFS. Perhaps the name should now be FFS and not WARMBLOOD

The numbers in the UC Davis report are only based on the tests they have done and does not include the tests run at other labs including Animal Genetics in FL. AHS has the majority of samples tested so far and that is why their numbers are so high. The testing sample numbers are very low as of yet so this report is not indicative of the entire population.

[Kareen]

The current ratio of my list-keeping is 856 horses tested and 84 carriers plus 6 FFS/FFS foals with documented parentage.
With UCD quoting 4% carriers among their tested TB’s and 7% among their tested Knabstrupper clientele it would be best to switch to using the name FFS vs. WFFS because neither TB’s not Knabbis are Warmbloods per definition and with all probability patient zero will have been a TB rather than a warmblood unless we are facing multiple roots for the exact same mutation which would seem highly unlikely…
I agree the data is still thin but I have no reason not to trust the numbers published by either of these two labs. To suggest they would publish false data in an effort to practice fear-mongering is highly inappropriate.

[Marydell]

I did not mean nor do I read my comment as suggesting false data? Kareen??

[Bent_Hickory]

@Kareen

I agree the data is still thin but I have no reason not to trust the numbers published by either of these two labs. To suggest they would publish false data in an effort to practice fear-mongering is highly inappropriate.

I did not say “false data” – but the labs absolutely know that their published percentages are not calculated from a proper sampling of the population that would withstand any sort of scientific scrutiny.

And, maybe it’s just me, but I have gotten advertisements from four or five different genetic testing labs recently (via FB and email) highlighting the horrors of WFFS and offering their testing.

Again, I use my example of the quarter I have that lands on “heads” 100% of the time, based of course on “preliminary data.” My data is absolutely truthful…

[Bent_Hickory]

@Marydell

I did not mean nor do I read my comment as suggesting false data? Kareen??

Maryanna - she’s referring to my post.

[2tempe]

To Kareen - in an earlier post you indicated 350+ horses and 80 carriers. Then in post 495 you have 850+ horses and 84 carriers. So saying that in the last 500 horses you have added, only 4 carriers? That just seems a huge difference and I’m wondering if you have any idea why? Not questioning the data per se, just curious.

[Bent_Hickory]

@2tempe

To Kareen - in an earlier post you indicated 350+ horses and 80 carriers. Then in post 495 you have 850+ horses and 84 carriers. So saying that in the last 500 horses you have added, only 4 carriers? That just seems a huge difference and I’m wondering if you have any idea why? Not questioning the data per se, just curious.

I’ll venture an educated guess – it’s because of self-selecting. The first horses tested were undoubtably related to horses known to be carriers (e.g., offspring of Everdale, etc.). This relationship to a known carrier spurred owners to test those horses early. Horses related to a carrier have a higher likelihood of being a carrier themselves versus a random horse in the general population. For example (not that this is what actually happened), in the first month, if only offspring of a known carrier were tested, you’d expect the results over a reasonably sufficient sample size to show that 50% of horses tested were carriers. By owners self-selecting which horses to test, the early results skew in favor of more carriers because those horses most likely to be carriers were also the first ones to be tested.

I saw this play out in a couple barns where there was a close relationship to a known carrier. In the first days/weeks of testing, those horses closely related to the carrier were tested with some urgency, while the remaining horses were tested over time.

I suspect that the percentages will continue to decrease over time as more and more horses unrelated to the known carriers are tested.

People have to remember that the “incidence percentages” being quoted represent incidence of WFFS among horses being tested. This is not the same as incidence of WFFS in the population (nor is it even a fair representation at this time) because the horses being tested are not a proper scientific sampling of the horses in the population.

[2tempe]

BH - thanks, yes that makes sense. So it will be quite some time until the data base is big enough - and broad enough - to get to a reasonably accurate idea how widespread this is…

[DownYonder]

Meanwhile, more and more responsible stallion owners are revealing test results. How much longer will the German stallion owners and German registries play ostrich?

http://www.eurodressage.com/2018/06/07/springbank-ii-atterupgaards-botticelli-wffs-carriers-helgstrand-stallions-partly-tested

http://www.eurodressage.com/2018/06/05/skovens-rafael-tests-positive-wffs

And see this letter from the breeder of a WFFS positive Rafael foal.
http://www.eurodressage.com/2018/06/06/breeder-dead-wffs-foal-writes-open-letter-danish-warmblood

Note this comment:
“Many things now make sense to me,” she continued. “For instance why it was impossible to get a mare into foal by a certain stallion. It was nature taking care that two carriers could not reproduce. That is why I did not succeed to get a certain stallion and mare into foal.”

It makes me wonder why breeders sometimes spend thousands upon thousands upon thousands of dollars, year after year, trying to get a foal from a particular sire and dam.

[vineyridge]

I sent an email to the Grayson-Jockey Club people and told them that UC Davis had tested 95 TBs and found a carrier rate of 4%. I also told them that the allele seems to be a simple Mendelian recessive and that the result of a double of that allele in an embryo can result in spontaneous abortion, early embryo death, or horrible deformity that results in euthanization if an affected foal is a live birth.

Got an email back that says they are having their researchers look into it. Since the Grayson Foundation is probably the biggest source of research funds for equine research, this could be a very good thing.

[Bent_Hickory]

@DownYonder

Meanwhile, more and more responsible stallion owners are revealing test results. How much longer will the German stallion owners and German registries play ostrich?

It is possible to be responsible and yet not reactionary. Just because the registries aren’t responding to your snapping fingers doesn’t mean they’re “playing ostrich.” Your negative inference on “silence” is inappropriate and frankly offensive to folks working diligently (but quietly) behind the scenes.

[Kareen]

OL and OS and Westfalians have sent out a letter of information urging both mare- and stallion owners to get their stallions tested and make their test results known. They have also announced to do a sample testing from their end in order to evaluate the current incidence throughout their population. Way to go

[Kareen]

OL and OS and Westfalians have sent out a letter of information urging both mare- and stallion owners to get their stallions tested and make their test results known. They have also announced to do a sample testing from their end in order to evaluate the current incidence throughout their population. Way to go

[Kareen]

@DownYonder

And see this letter from the breeder of a WFFS positive Rafael foal.
http://www.eurodressage.com/2018/06/06/breeder-dead-wffs-foal-writes-open-letter-danish-warmblood

For the record: Jytte’s foal was not by Rafael but by Orion at least so it was published a few days after Astrid published the article on Eurodressage.

[vineyridge]

It occurs to me that FFS presents a textbook case on why close breeding is considered dangerous.

[Elles]

Confirmed carrier:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bravour16

[DownYonder]

@Bent Hickory

It is possible to be responsible and yet not reactionary. Just because the registries aren’t responding to your snapping fingers doesn’t mean they’re “playing ostrich.” Your negative inference on “silence” is inappropriate and frankly offensive to folks working diligently (but quietly) behind the scenes.

What a snotty response. I stand by my comments. The German stallion owners and registries should have been out in front of this, considering how big a piece of the market they corner. Instead it is other registries leading the charge. The Germans are assuming the furor will die down and it will be business as usual. Making excuses for them isn’t going to encourage them to address the issue publicly.

[Bent_Hickory]

@DownYonder

What a snotty response. I stand by my comments. The German stallion owners and registries should have been out in front of this, considering how big a piece of the market they corner. Instead it is other registries leading the charge. The Germans are assuming the furor will die down and it will be business as usual. Making excuses for them isn’t going to encourage them to address the issue publicly.

And I stand by mine. Develop some patience and stop leaping to conclusions.

[Bent_Hickory]

Updated Statement of the American Hanoverian Society Board Regarding Warmblood Fragile Foal Syndrome (WFFS)

In April 2018, the AHS issued an initial statement regarding Warmblood Fragile Foal Syndrome (WFFS), advising the membership regarding this genetic condition and suggesting that carrier-to-carrier breedings be avoided. This statement also announced the appointment of the AHS’ WFFS Task Force to investigate WFFS and provide recommendations to the AHS Board. A few weeks later in early May, the AHS was the first domestic warmblood registry to announce an arrangement with UC-Davis offering discounted WFFS testing for AHS members.

Since then, the WFFS Task Force has conducted an extensive investigation, speaking with various experts on WFFS and other genetic diseases as well as registry and breed organizations that have developed policies to address genetic diseases. Last week, the WFFS Task Force provided their science-based recommendations to the AHS Board in a special meeting. On Monday, June 11, after countless telephone conversations and email exchanges among its members, the Board unanimously approved the following important steps.

First, the AHS recommends that members test all mares and stallions to determine whether these animals are carriers of the WFFS gene. Also, the AHS recommends that members not engage in carrier-to-carrier breedings.

Second, beginning in 2019, stallion owners will be required to provide the WFFS status of their stallion(s) for publication in AHS/ARS Stallion Book and on the American Hanoverian and American Rhineland websites. This status will be published in a manner similar to the stallion’s EVA status, namely as “tested positive,” “tested negative,” or “not tested.” This published status should assist mare owners with selecting appropriate stallions, especially those owners with mares identified as carriers.

Third, the AHS will continue to work with UC-Davis, making the genetic information gathered over the last few decades for parentage verification available for further study on the prevalence of WFFS in the AHS breeding population as well as warmblood breeding populations more generally.

Fourth, the AHS will continue to provide educational materials to its members regarding WFFS, including a speaker on the topic of preventing genetic diseases during the upcoming 2019 Annual Meeting.

The WFFS Task Force will continue to monitor the research on WFFS and update the Board as new information becomes available to ascertain whether additional steps are necessary. The AHS will continue to communicate to its members as more pertinent information becomes available.