Important news!! WFFS is finally recognized

[vineyridge]

This is sort of off topic, but perhaps one reason the Germans are being dilatory is that they don’t do much hard science on equines. I pulled up over a 110 pages of scientific studies on PubMed of genetic science being done on horses and looked at the first twelve pages. I also searched for “Holsteiner horse” and “Hanoverian horse”. There were NONE done on the genetics of German Holsteiners by scientists in that region. There was one done by a scientist in Germany on the effect of gender and exercise on the hemological and biochemical parameter in Holsteiner horses. There were about fifteen done on Hanoverians, the vast majority of which were on genes affecting stallion fertility. The Hanoverians were also the subjects of one paper on genes in navicular and one on Hanoverian genes in Hanoverian OCD. The Hanoverians also did a study on genetics in showjumping which included Holsteiners.

Whereas, there are more than a few studies that have been published by Dutch scientists working on horses in the KWPN registry. Almost all of the Irish science has been done on TBs, and it looks to me as if the ratio worldwide of TB to Other science may be something like 20 to 1.

[DownYonder]

“After a long period of silence and denial, some of Germany’s major stallion stations are finally following suit and having their stallions tested for the genetic defect Warmblood Fragile Foal Syndrome (WFFS)…”

Kudos to Burkhard Wahler for taking the lead in announcing the WFFS statuses of his stallions.

http://www.eurodressage.com/2018/06/22/quantensprung-tests-positive-wffs-carrier

[vineyridge]

@DownYonder

“After a long period of silence and denial, some of Germany’s major stallion stations are finally following suit and having their stallions tested for the genetic defect Warmblood Fragile Foal Syndrome (WFFS)…”

Kudos to Burkhard Wahler for taking the lead in announcing the WFFS statuses of his stallions.

http://www.eurodressage.com/2018/06/22/quantensprung-tests-positive-wffs-carrier

That’s nice. But the furor seems to be dying down, and the German registries continue to shilly shally. The only thing that will make a real difference if breeders refuse to use untested stallions, or if the stallion owners offer “live foal, stands and nurses” guarantees. That’s really not a bad idea for carrier stallions because clear foals will survive, and affected foals won’t meet the guarantee. Hard on the mare owner, of course, but that would allow carrier to carrier breedings with the stallion owner losing the stud fee or being required to re-breed until a clear is born, even if it takes years.

Are mare owners testing to see if they can produce carriers if the stallion is tested and clear? FFS cannot be allowed to become part of the background noise. There are hundreds of thousands of WB horses in the world, and I’d bet that less than 5000 have been tested to date.

[Kareen]

The only folk that have taken the lead were a bunch of mare owners who oranised themselves in view of the completely lacking interest from most stallion owners and the registries. :lol: Medingen is also also far from being the first stallion station to test and publish either there were quite a few others ahead of them. Also the number of studies published on PubMed is not at all reflective of what’s being done in terms of equine research outside the US. Most German studies get published in German only so won’t hit pubmed to begin with because the US tends to not read anything but English. Dutch studies are a lot more likely to appear in English because very few people speak Dutch and The Netherlands have traditionally always acted more global than Germany.
I don’t think that the furor is dying down but I do think the efforts to sit it out have to a degree been successful in that the breeding season in our hemisphere is nearing it’s end with many stallions still being untested.
The latest joke is that our FN and even polititians in charge openly argue that maybe the tests aren’t reliable. This is a bit of a poor excuse when we are talking about a test that has been validated 5 years ago and been in use since - even with little demand.
The other accusation is even more ridiculous namely that FFS is not a real issue but a money-grabbing scheme stirred up by a few labs who are making a profit from testing.

This latest development truly leaves me a bit redfaced with shame for my country :mad: But as always time will tell and I believe at the end of the day those who have been more active will succeed and some others will pay the price down the road.

[SnicklefritzG]

As a mare owner, I will do business with the stallion owners who are transparent.

I won’t do business with those who refuse to test.

[vineyridge]

I’ve seen more than a few listings in PubMed that are for articles written in German. I cannot remember if the abstracts are also in German, but I seem to recall seeing some that are. PubMed is an index and database of science and attempts to cover the entire world.

[Kareen]

Attempts. Yes Be assured there is a lot more research going on over here than makes it to PubMed. Are you aware of how content is selected? I’m not but I could imagine that authors have to actively apply for it and if they don’t do it then their works won’t be indexed.

[vineyridge]

I would guess that PubMed indexes articles that appear in peer reviewed journals published all over the world. If the research doesn’t get published in a scientific journal that’s available internationally to scientists, it’s not going to make PubMed.

[Albion]

@vineyridge

I would guess that PubMed indexes articles that appear in peer reviewed journals published all over the world. If the research doesn’t get published in a scientific journal that’s available internationally to scientists, it’s not going to make PubMed.

No, only certain journals (albeit a good number) are indexed, and the journal has to apply to be included. It’s not “scraping” everything published world wide.

[vineyridge]

@Albion

No, only certain journals (albeit a good number) are indexed, and the journal has to apply to be included. It’s not “scraping” everything published world wide.

Thank you.

[Bent_Hickory]

@Kareen

The latest joke is that our FN and even polititians in charge openly argue that maybe the tests aren’t reliable. This is a bit of a poor excuse when we are talking about a test that has been validated 5 years ago and been in use since - even with little demand.

Do you have a link to a paper that validates the test?

@Kareen

The other accusation is even more ridiculous namely that FFS is not a real issue but a money-grabbing scheme stirred up by a few labs who are making a profit from testing.

I received nearly a dozen or so ads on FB and emails from labs offering their testing services. Are you saying that the labs didn’t attempt to capitalize on the hysteria?

[Manni01]

@Bent Hickory

Do you have a link to a paper that validates the test?

I received nearly a dozen or so ads on FB and emails from labs offering their testing services. Are you saying that the labs didn’t attempt to capitalize on the hysteria?

I agree with you. I think of course the labs did attempt to capitalize the whole thing.

I don’t think it was a hysteria, but I do think that there were horses tested without need. which was of course good for the labs. And they will earn a lot of money in the future.

The other side is, that this test is the only way to avoid carrier carrier matings, which might result in a dead foal.
But I would test strictly horses which I would want to breed and of course stallions which are offered for breeding. I am not sure whether its really necessary to test retired broodmares or colts which might never get approved.

I tested none of my horses so far (although I would love to know their status) but I will only test the one I might breed in the future if I decide to breed her.

And I assume the test is valid as long as I don’t know of any cases where 2 clear horses produced a carrier… As long as the results make sense for me the test is valid…

[Edre]

@Bent Hickory

Do you have a link to a paper that validates the test?

I received nearly a dozen or so ads on FB and emails from labs offering their testing services. Are you saying that the labs didn’t attempt to capitalize on the hysteria?

I don’t know if this answers your question, but this is the original patent submitted by Cornell. This is a PubMed article that references the same causative point mutation (and this article is sourced in Animal Genetics’ page about their test, as well as UC Davis’).

I’m not sure if this is actually what you’re looking for (“paper that validates the test”) but I thought both pieces of literature might be helpful. Ultimately, I think that calling into question the authenticity of lab tests isn’t especially productive: WFFS-like mutations aren’t abnormal or uncommon (Ehlers-danlos mutations are fairly well known and can be very straightforward to identify) so creating and marketing a commercial lab test for it isn’t a reach.

[Bent_Hickory]

@Edre

I don’t know if this answers your question, but this is the original patentsubmitted by Cornell.

I have a copy of the U.S. patent application, but this does nothing to validate the science.

[U]

@Edre

[/U]This is a PubMed articlethat references the same causative point mutation (and this article is sourced in Animal Genetics’ page about their test, as well as UC Davis’).

I didn’t have this article. I will pass this along to the folks smarter than me who have raised questions about the original research and whether it has been through appropriate scientific scrutiny (i.e., validation).

@Edre

Ultimately, I think that calling into question the authenticity of lab tests isn’t especially productive: WFFS-like mutations aren’t abnormal or uncommon (Ehlers-danlos mutations are fairly well known and can be very straightforward to identify) so creating and marketing a commercial lab test for it isn’t a reach.

Developing a test for a particular mutation isn’t the same as validating that the particular mutation causes a particular condition.

[SnicklefritzG]

this thread shouldn’t become a pissing contest to see who can act like the biggest know-it-all.

[ahf]

Every time I read the word “hysteria” applied to the general response to WFFS I get so angry i want to throw my monitor out the window. It’s

1. not true
2. condescending and belittling
3. does absolutely nothing to contribute to discussion, in fact it is used by design to shut down discussion

[SnicklefritzG]

Yes!!

WFFS testing is about making informed choices.

I find it bothersome that people are saying “Congratulations to so-and-so for testing clear”, as if those who have not tested clear are somehow defective. I’m happy for people whose horses are clear, but trumpeting their joy in that manner has a negative impact on horses who are not clear.

@ahf

Every time I read the word “hysteria” applied to the general response to WFFS I get so angry i want to throw my monitor out the window. It’s

1. not true
2. condescending and belittling
3. does absolutely nothing to contribute to discussion, in fact it is used by design to shut down discussion

[trubandloki]

@SnicklefritzG

I find it bothersome that people are saying “Congratulations to so-and-so for testing clear”, as if those who have not tested clear are somehow defective. I’m happy for people whose horses are clear, but trumpeting their joy in that manner has a negative impact on horses who are not clear.

That is like saying that the kid who wins the class is not allowed to be congratulated because the kid who did not win the class will feel bad.

A horse that is clear is just as much a good promotional item as saying it is guaranteed to produce certain colors or that is has this great show record.

[SnicklefritzG]

some people take it far enough to imply that horses who aren’t clear are defective
If you read my original post you would have seen that.

@trubandloki

That is like saying that the kid who wins the class is not allowed to be congratulated because the kid who did not win the class will feel bad.

A horse that is clear is just as much a good promotional item as saying it is guaranteed to produce certain colors or that is has this great show record.

[Manni01]

@SnicklefritzG

this thread shouldn’t become a pissing contest to see who can act like the biggest know-it-all.

So far I am very pleased how much information his thread provides… Yes there was a time when it was declared by a true expert on the topic that it was a horrible thread when some people went over the top in order to try to declare that carriers need to be eliminated and breeders who use carriers are irresponsible and bad but IMO it recovered pretty well. So I think overall it think its best not to try to shape it too much… In the long run all this might be good information!!