Impressive horses.. not just HYPP abnormalities.

[Sansena]

For years I’ve heard my Impressive grandson would be tough to ride, sensitive, quick, quick to buck, smart, tricky.
I’ve been through 5 trainers with varying degrees of success-- some just handed the reins back and said “I can’t ride him”.

I’ve spoken to knowledgeable horsemen who’ve brought my attention to their training quirks. They’ve said all Impressive horses are similarly quirky to train.

This week I met a vet, who has an Impressive granddaughter. Same riding sensitivities… but when I mentioned some particulars about scoping, she commented that laryngeal abnormalities are quite common with the Impressive line as well. In layman’s terms, something to do with a sub-clinical presentation of HYPP-like muscle affliction. The larynx being a muscle after all.

Is there anything else you’ve heard about the Impressive babies and how they’re just a little different from other horses? This is fascinating…

Thanks.

[Obsidian_Fire]

I had an Impressive granddaughter and that horse will forever live in my heart. Never put a foot wrong with me. She was kind, smart, friendly, safe, sane, all the things you want.

Sometimes I think people make too much out of bloodlines. Most ‘quirks’ are man-made.

[Palm_Beach]

Sorry you are having such a hard time finding a quality trainer. You might have to send him out of state to find a good trainer who can get a better foundation on the horse. I imagine there is not much of a Western scene in CT? Maybe OH or NY? I’m in the Mid Atlantic and had a really hard time finding good Western based trainers.

[js]

I have a double Impressive bred gelding (no I didn’t breed him, just bought him). Got him as a 4 yr old. He did and still does have some quirks. Many of his early quirks were a result of fast and furious training to get him broke (this was before I bought him). While he was broke I think it instilled a lot of resentment in him, which I was left to undo. The first couple of years were a challenge but when he finally realized I was going to stick it out, not put up with the bad behavior and would reward the good, we formed a bond that is still going today, 27 years later.

Mine was a really nice horse to ride, no buck, no spook, sweet guy that would try his heart out for you. There were days when it was best just to turn him loose in the arena or round pen and let him get the energy out his own way. Then we could come back the next day and have a great ride.

I also have an Appy with Impressive blood lines who is the total opposite. He is very laid back, no quirks, lazy and slightly stubborn but will give you 110%, very sweet and kid proof. I broke him myself, never tried anything.

I don’t think there is anything exceptionally different about them, any more so than any other horse. You have to look at them as an individual and not so much by their blood lines.

[Gestalt]

Two of my friends have mares from the Impressive line (I think granddaughters). Both have a tendency to buck at the drop of a hat. Both women are very experienced horsemen, one also trains and shows mules. The little I saw of the one horse I didn’t like, I wonder if she was muscle sore, because she always seemed to be “sucking back”.

I do think traits are inherited, to blame everything on bad training is a bit clueless. There have been studies on how a foal picks up the mares personality, especially if she is a lead mare.

I had a mare that people said was sired by a tough minded stallion. Her go-to reaction was always fight. You had to be 100% aware when handling or riding her, no lazy day hack with that one!

[Sansena]

Is there anything else you’ve heard about the Impressive babies and how they’re just a little different from other horses?

This is fascinating…

[Bluey]

We had a handful of them, a local trainer of note had plenty come thru his barn.
His comment was, if you can keep them sound and healthy when young, they make lovely, pocket pony horses later.
According to him, they didn’t have a real sense of self preservation when young and had a definite drop in energy when mature.
That was before HYPP was found and could be tested for, but there was already some talk that those lines had some problems.

We had one that didn’t work for us, had no cow sense at all, would walk thru a herd like there was no one there.
The fellow that bought him said that he tried using him for a circle horse, just to cover miles and round up.
The horse would start sweating out of the blue and then go out of his mind and would buck and run thru anything.
They could not find anything that hurt him, or any other reason.
Once acted like he could not see the gate at the end of the alley and ran into it without slowing down, scary to ride.
He learned that, if he started to sweat, he better get off and let him get his bearings.
That horse was N/N, so not having HYPP episodes, but other may have been part of that.

When some bloodlines start getting a reputation, we need to remember that not every horse bred with those inherits whatever is there, so not all will prove that reputation.

What most are is very nice looking, neat little heads and good bone and structure, although some end up a little too muscle bound to move out that well once mature and older.
Practically everyone I know for decades now has absolutely not even consider any horse with Impressive lines, no one wants to see if that one also has troubles.

[SlabSided]

I had am Impressive grandson. When I first bought him I, unfortunately, hooked up with a horrid “trainer” (one of those “get a bigger bit” people, put draw reins in my inexperienced hands) and had an unhappy, frightened, horse who would rear at the slightest provocation. She tried to convince me he was a rouge and untrainable. Once I found a good trainer - basically, just someone who knew what the hell they were doing - I had a sweet, happy, boy who loved working and had impeccable ground manners. My trainers always commented on how he tried so hard to do what I asked.

Oh, crap…I’m tearing up. He’s been gone for 3 1/2 years…

The laryngeal thing, though, is interesting. My guy would have weird “episodes” every now and then later in life where he seemed to stagger and twist himself around and seem just kind of out of it. This only happened less than 1/2 dozen times over about a 10 year period that I witnessed and it was always short lived and he returned to completely normal within 5 minutes. He was N/N and no other symptoms.

[Palm_Beach]

[QUOTE=Gestalt;n10003817]

I do think traits are inherited, to blame everything on bad training is a bit clueless. There have been studies on how a foal picks up the mares personality, especially if she is a lead mare./QUOTE]

I think the opposite. To blame everything on inherited traits due to limited personal experience is clueless. How does a foal know if mommy bucks at the drop of a hat or is quirky when being ridden? The basis of good training is finding all the holes and buttons and quirks in the beginning, before a rider is aboard. Then you don’t have to slap a label on the horse due to trainer incompetence.

Personality types may be inherited, and some personalities are easier to train than others, and maybe that personality type is at the extreme end of the spectrum, but that just means you have to work really hard with them in the beginning.

I mainly work with tbs so I am very well acquainted with the sensitive quick reacting personality, which is not the norm with stock breeds. But what I’ve learned from Western trainers would have saved me many times in my younger years.

[js]

My double bred Impressive gelding that I got as a 4 yr old certainly has his quirks most of which were with ground manners. He was always good under saddle but there were days it was best to take the saddle off and let him get his energy out himself, next day it was business as usual. He was fun to ride and tried hard at learning things. The first 4 years of owing him were the test and not every day was a happy one. It took incredible patience, having a thicker skin then him and sticking with him thru all the good and bad. The day came that the light bulb finally came on for him, he became a quiet and loving horse. He’d still has those moments even at at age 31 but he has been fun, and a 27 yr learning experience for me that I wouldn’t trade for anything.

[SugarCubes]

Interesting! I’ve never heard that! I’ve had two Impressive bred horses over the years, one mare, one gelding. Both dead quiet, and neither were reactive or spooky in the least bit. Never a buck out of either of them. In fact, we bought the gelding as a green broke 2 year old and my 16 year old, inexperienced self, finished him myself. He never put a hoof wrong.

Now, I have a super quirky, super spooky Chips Chocolate Chip baby whom I adore, but I wish he was as quiet as my Impressive bred horses were!

[Texarkana]

We boarded an Impressive grandson for many years when I was a teenager. I also used to ride him for his owner. He was challenging. Spooky, unpredictable, quick to buck, and just didn’t get along with humans or other horses.

But I also believe a lot of his issues were nurture, not nature. Most of his life he was owned by an older woman who meant well, but didn’t have the skills necessary to bring along a very large young horse. Nor did she have the resources to pay for the training he needed.

And obviously, my experience is based on exactly one horse… I definitely have not dealt with enough of the population to say whether or not it is typical.

[ddashaq]

I started one Impressive grandson back in 2000 and he was one of the easiest horses I have ever sat on. He was smart, calm, and loved people. I put 60 days on him for his 12 year old rider when he was three and she was showing him in walk/trot the week after he shipped home. I absolutely loved him. The only negative was that he did have HYPP, which required careful management. Once we figured out how to handle it, he excelled. He was the only one that I can recall handling so I have no idea if he was typical or not.

[Arelle]

I think any of the lines definitely have both biological (i.e. muscle development) and personality traits that tend to show up.

I’m not sure about the Impressive lines, but it makes sense. I was speaking with the UF Geneticist at the APHA Convention last year and she mentioned the correlation between gut motility and the frame overo pattern. The mutation for that specific color pattern lies on the same gene as the control for the gut motility. For whatever reason, the two go together and it’s why a double recessive will be a lethal white foal with no gut motility 100% of the time.

A couple of friends have horses that are afflicted with PSSM. I’m glad more is coming to light on that disease, because I’m sure for years people were stumped with their horses that got inexplicably lame and difficult to work.

[Wayside]

The one I had was dumber than a box of rocks, but I think most of his problems came from the fact that he was actually N/H, so although he never had a massive attack he was symptomatic enough that when a smaller one happened, he’d completely lose his mind and do really dangerous stuff like rearing straight up and over.

Like Bluey mentioned, he had absolutely no sense of self-preservation, either. I used to trail ride him, and although that mostly went really well once I figured out how to manage him properly to avoid major blowups, it was still really disconcerting at times. Some of the trails we frequented had sections that were terraced, and going down those steps he would literally just walk straight forward like he hadn’t a care in the world, and then just drop until his feet hit the ground. And it would make my stomach lurch like being on an elevator that stops too quickly.

[luvmyhackney]

For those of you that don’t mind shipping. I got a friend in NC, trainer that is a fantastic horse guy. Specializes in western but very well rounded, doesn’t rush, great timing. You can PM me and I will send you his name. Don’t want to be accused of advertising, even though I have 0 affiliation except I’ll send any horse I can’t fix to him.

I used to board with an Impressive granddaughter. She was quiet with no self preservation, they only did ground work with her cause she was a tough ride.

[SonnysMom]

I had in Impressive bred horse, Sonny. He was N/H. Nicest horse on the ground and under saddle. Easy to train. He was pretty green when I got him. Trained him to jump, great to trail ride. Easy to train. Was used in a couple of beginner lessons a week and never put a foot wrong with them. I never noticed a lack of self preservation. He never figured out a clean lead change. I think he was very long, straight hocked and hard to balance. Had a really nice simple or skip change but rarely a true lead change.

[walktrot]

My lovely laid-back 23 y.o. APHA gelding is a great-grandson of Impressive who appears once, in the tail-male. He is built like a TB, loves to jump and can do low level dressage. He was spooky but it never occurred to me that any of his behavior traces to Impressive - his conformation certainly doesn’t. He’s so sweet and quiet and licks everybody he meets. He did therapeutic riding lessons with an adult with a traumatic brain injury who had ridden in his younger days. They got along famously for 6 months twice a week until the funding ran out for the lessons.

I have his papers and had a 12-generation pedigree done when I first bought him. I entered him into the All Breed Pedigree database so I know absolutely 100% that there is no other Impressive blood. The tail-male goes back to Darley Arabian. The Inbreeding report says he shares 12.5% of his genes with Awhe Chief, an APHA stallion who appears twice. Three Bars, a TB, accounts for 5.5% (3X), and the QH King6 is there 6 times but is about 3%. So 20% of his genes are accounted for by those three horses.

A friend of mine had a snowflake Appy gelding with Impressive in exactly the same place in his pedigree, He also had the same TB build. We called them 4th cousins. No problems there either.

[Hulk]

@Arelle

I think any of the lines definitely have both biological (i.e. muscle development) and personality traits that tend to show up.

I’m not sure about the Impressive lines, but it makes sense. I was speaking with the UF Geneticist at the APHA Convention last year and she mentioned the correlation between gut motility and the frame overo pattern. The mutation for that specific color pattern lies on the same gene as the control for the gut motility. For whatever reason, the two go together and it’s why a double recessive will be a lethal white foal with no gut motility 100% of the time.

A couple of friends have horses that are afflicted with PSSM. I’m glad more is coming to light on that disease, because I’m sure for years people were stumped with their horses that got inexplicably lame and difficult to work.

This.

[Sansena]

Lack of self preservation is something I see in my horse.
He’s definitely not a horse you want to ride when it’s super cold out, either. Muscles become super ‘hard’, he’s super tense and reactive. I contributed that to a vitamin E thing, being off grass in the winter but I wonder if there’s another component there. He’s HYPP N/N…

Thank you for everyone’s thoughtful and candid replies about their horses.