we had one very successful horse who had a full sister who was one year older… the horses could have been twins … older horse was nothing like our mare…
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Uh, yes. I’d be irresponsible not to.
Breeding for certain traits works when it does, but not always, of course.
At least starting with known traits gives you more of a chance to have those in the offspring, when we breed for those.
Not sure the breeder there did, or was after other characteristics in that cross than similar temperaments, why you ended with different ones in those two horses?
The only difference was in what we spent on her education, our mare remained in training until she stopped improving … then as the trainer wife said we took her home to be ruined… which didn’t occur, she went on to be nationally ranked in multiple disciplines
There are some traits which seem to carry.
I had a “Skip” horse, and it was here that I started reading how horses from the similar lines had the same kind of quirks he did. I loved him, super talented horse. But… not so smart. :lol:
I can still recognize Super Bear descendants much of the time. I don’t even know how many years he’s been gone - I think it was close to 30 years ago I met him in person!
Most of the time traits aren’t AS distinct, because of the complexity of inheritance as noted. I suspect the personality quirks actually ARE related to HYPP. My OTTB had tying up issues when Mg deficient, and it created quirks and issues we are still dealing with now.
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Arelle, I agree with you! I guess I wasn’t clear enough. What I’m trying to say is that people do impute behavior to a particular horse in a pedigree when that horse contributes very little genetically to their own horse. That’s the case here. Impressive is my horse’s great-grandfather, but an APHA stallion accounts for 15% genetically. So if I were going to “blame” anyone for his behaviors it would be the Paint and not Impressive. I can’t and wouldn’t do it because it’s a useless exercise.
My point about All Breed Pedigree is, first, it’s interesting to find more about your horse’s pedigree and it doesn’t cost anything to search and add them to the database if they aren’t already there. That’s how I know that Impressive appears once but my horse’s sire was N/H. I also know how many APHA points and championships his sire, among others, has. My horse is sabino (which is registered as overo in APHA) and both his sire and dam are close to solid. Watching this flashy baby come out must have been a kick. Finally, I know that he has one full sibling.
As far as foundation QH and old TBs, it’s just plain old fun to tell someone that some great famous racing TB champion is back there and that he also is a direct descendant of the Darley Arabian. Of course it doesn’t “mean” anything, other than to show us the diverse background some breeds have.
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Question - why are there still so many Impressive horses being bred - ?
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For a long time, we didn’t KNOW about HYPP. I don’t think the blood test was even developed until 1994; a year before Impressive died at age 26. That’s 25 years of breeding horses that won, and won a LOT, in the show pen. He sired 2,250 foals in his lifetime.
HYPP horses for a long time were bred because of the muscling that they put on. In fact, that’s still while they’re popular today. As of 2007, AQHA has been able to deny registry to any HYPP H/H horses, but has not completely phased out the N/H horses yet.
Unfortunately, you have a lot of irresponsible breeders who are willing to foresake health for money. There’s one out there right now that I constantly fight with on Facebook because he’s promoting his stallion that carries PSSM, which is a disease that - like HYPP - is autosomal dominant and carriers can be symptomatic or non-symptomic, depending on the luck of the draw.
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Right, being full sisters you had a bigger chance of both being more similar than most, but we know how the gene lottery works, plus yes, if they both don’t have the same chances in life for growth, management and training, well, that also counts what they will become.
Some genes we know today are also changing thru our lives, depending on external circumstaces, they are not as set as once thought.
Interesting. My horse used to make this horrible weird noise like a bunch of fornicating feral hogs on the first trail ride of the spring every year, and the vet and I theorized that it was some sort of interplay between anxiety and maybe environmental changes causing HYPP symptoms that were more pronounced around his airway, but we never really took a look at his larynx that I can recall. I just was careful to take it easy and make sure he didn’t overdo it on the first few rides of the season, and then after that he was fine.
And I have no idea how closely related my horse was to Impressive. I bought him at an auction that had him listed as a unregistered breeding stock (solid colored) paint in maybe 1996, and the only reason that I know as much as I do is that I eventually read an article (in maybe 2003) about the manifestations of HYPP in N/H horses, and it was like reading about him, so I had him tested. If he hadn’t had HYPP, I wouldn’t have known.
I’ve got an Impressive granddaughter. HYPP negative. She’s TB/App (out of the Waps line) on her mother’s side and all QH on her sire’s. Really nice mover, willing, nice over fences. But, she’s certainly got opinions and a very high opinion of herself. Pushy on the ground, solid under saddle and so smart it’s scary. Can’t speak when you’re on her back because if she hears anything that even remotely sounds like “whoa, stop, easy, halt” she can do a real QH stop. But, she’s quick to pick up new things. Generally only have to explain it once. Brave and definitely an Alpha horse. First nonTB I’ve had in over 40 years and it’s been a learning curve. Can’t say whether her attitude comes from Impressive or the App side, but it’s fun.
My gelding is HYPP N/H and is absolutely amazing! Best horse I could ever imagine. Athletic, very intelligent, brave, willing, confident, seeks to please, and is the sweetest animal! He’s so affectionate and just a love. He is now 32 and I’ve had him for 25 years. He has had 2 HYPP episodes in his life—the first one was 20 years ago brought on by stress/exhaustion from a pack trip in Montana, and the other was yesterday brought on by too much sedation during a routine dental float. Both things that could have been avoided. The vet doing the dental float yesterday had never seen an episode, and I had warned her prior to sedating him that he was HYPP so to be mindful. After the float, he began getting muscle tremors around his stifle, but moved to his flank, abdomen and shoulders. The vet told me to relax but luckily I had karo syrup on hand just in case of emergency (I’m a worrier). The vet finally agreed I was right and the tremors moved up his to his chest and neck. Of course the vet did not have anything on hand for HYPP. We ended up having to get another vet out there to give him IV fluids. Poor thing was terrified.
So although that experience was traumatic for me and my horse, it could have been avoided. As long as you keep a few things on hand in the event of an episode and are mindful of diet (low potassium—avoid molasses, alfalfa, electrolytes, etc.) and triggers (diet, stress, sedation, etc.) there is no difference between him and my other QH gelding. Everyone has their own issues. And if you’re horse will be sedated, make sure your vet brings appropriate meds in case of an episode. Keep in mind, my horse has been sedated many many times for procedures and this is the only time the sedation brought it on.
If you have any questions about HYPP, feel free to ask as I have spent countless hours researching over the years. A lot of vets unfortunately don’t know as much about it as I would hope.
My horse has had excellent health, his teeth are in great shape, always been very sound, good feet and had never had any other health problems!
I had an APHA filly from an Impressive line. She was N/H, and died at 5 of an HYPP attack.
She was an absolute doll, super easy to break and train. She was my first horse; I got her as a yearling and broke her myself.
^^This. Some temperments are passed down, but most behavior is learned or trained. You of course approach things much different with a very laid back horse than one that is very high strung, and having ridden and shown TBs all my life I now seriously pursue a more laid back temperament when horse shopping. It’s just easier.
Sorry!!! You must have been one heartbroken girl. I teared up just reading this.
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Of course all horses are individuals, but it is a slight disincentive to take a barn as shoeing clients if Impressive is mentioned, They “tend” to be unpredictable, overly reactive, and stupid ( no sense of self preservation).
And I breed and train event horses, so I am QUITE familiar with TB reactivity and silliness. And hubby had barrel and pole horses which tend to have a good bit of TB. Not even slightly similar to an Impressive horse.
Jennifer
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“… They “tend” to be unpredictable, overly reactive, and stupid ( no sense of self preservation).”
My horse is smart as a whip if you can keep his attention. But I agree on everything else you wrote. Describes him to a T. I have to be super diligent on diet, t/o, routine and exercise. Oh, and supplements… learned the hard way that some will make life easier and some can make it downright miserable for us.
Thanks to everyone who’s contributed in the vein the thread was intended.
I had an Imprssive grandson. Hands down the smartest, bravest and most athletic horse I ever owned. He was HYPP N/N and his only quirk was he would occasionally be unsteady in the trailer.
I know this old thread has been revived, but re-reading it has me wondering if the HYPP isn’t the culprit of the supposedly “inherited” behavioral traits rather than Impressive alone.
The horse I had mentioned on the first page was H/H and had to be managed carefully. It’s plausible, to me, that he may have just not felt 100% even when he was seemingly asymptomatic, hence the difficult behavior.
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If a horse is N/N, whatever else he may be should not be related to HYPP at all, as he doesn’t has that mutation.
I wonder some times if the testing is done on the right horse, or a mistake happened.
The one horse we had problems with also tested N/N, but he sure had some problems that could have been HYPP driven.
Wish we had tested him, just to be sure, not just go by a previous test, but someone fell in love with him, he was a beautiful, sweet horse and bought him, even knowing he was not always as quiet as he seemed and we lost track of him.
