Incredible incredible horse

[Auventera_Two]

MyReality -

You made some really really good points that I agree with.

I guess I will try to soften my comments a little by saying that you are so right about “turning it on” in the show ring. A lot of horses do that, and I think that’s a wonderful thing. Even my own little mare will really “turn it on” when I put her in long lines and ask her to “TROT UP.” But like most horses, just putzing around free with no gear on, she is not nearly as animated. (and this is the same story as the mare I talked about earlier.)

But anyway, on with the softening…Maybe it is entirely possible that this horse is more “UP” and full of elastic energy due to the show ring environment. Maybe he doesn’t really have freaky outlandish gaits by nature.

I guess what bothers me most though, is that when people see these freaky outlandish gaits they jump up and scream and say “THAT’S IT! THAT’S WHAT WE WANT!!” But I say…why? Sure it’s lovely, it’s energetic, it’s exciting. But to to me, that’s not entirely what dressage is about. Dressage is about building blocks, training, improvement, consistency, fluidity, cadence. Dressage is not about super big, hot horses with freaky movement. (At least to me its not.) And this is one of the major reasons I quit pursuing a dressage goal. The sport had seemed to become corrupt with people wanting bigger, hotter, flashier imported european warmbloods, and it had become less about what the discipline’s roots really demand that it be.

When I think dressage, I think about stoic, explicitely trained military horses who are regimented, thorough and methodic, trustworthy, precision for combat, etc. They are heavy and unflappable. They are not hot and likely to run away with you. I think of horses who would face an attacker and bring you his head on a plate. Not a horse who is flighty, flashy, and electrified. I just always go back to the roots of the sport and that makes me realize how what we have in the show rings today is really really far from what it might ought to be. Ask yourself why dressage was cultivated? Was it to prove you had the hottest and flashiest horse, or was it to make sure you lived through the battle and got back home at the end of the day?

[hitchinmygetalong]

@FoxxxyStarr;2032859

i don’t see my opinions as being groundbreaking, as there seem to be others here who will agree with me. here we have a video of a lovely show horse doing his thing at a BREED show. this video was posted on a DRESSAGE board. there is no need to be so contemptuous of those who are not so enamored with the extreme breed type exhibited in the video. you simply picked the wrong bulletin board to post this on.

:eek: WHAT?!? And just where do you think it SHOULD be posted?

ahh, so those who find dressage boring to watch are ignorant. sounds like those who dislike modern art. they just don’t know enough to appreciate it, right? the whole point of dressage is that it SHOULD be boring to watch. the best ride is the one you don’t even notice. that’s why dressage is different from saddle seat.

Who said that? Oh golly, I guess YOU did. I would change “ignorant” to “uneducated” and for crying out loud, what does saddle seat have to do with it? I find watching overshod horses flinging their way around in circles totally unappealing but could watch Quaterback’s video for hours. Different strokes. But you don’t see me marching over to trot.org and telling them how awful their disciplines are, do you?

As far as folks agreeing with you, I count… one? two? And for those who are opposed to your views, let’s see… well, let’s just say you are in the minority.

[mp]

[QUOTE=Sandy M;2032910]
Now…after all that…the newbie is 16 hands at 2.5 years old. He has 8" overstep at the walk (!) and is very free in the shoulder, but obviously not under saddle yet as he is too young. And he is… by Aul Magic out of a 17.2 Appaloosa mare. He does not have perfect conformation, but he has a lovely top line for an unbacked horse, is short backed, moves straight, and uses his hocks extremely well (PPE vet said, “I thought he was going to hit his belly!”). She also said he had a bit too much knee action if I wanted a hunter (no problema, doc, I want a dressage horse). But I certainly don’t think he’s a freakish mover - just a very nice mover. I only hope I can preserve those gaits once he’s under saddle.[/QUOTE]

I am jealous. You just can’t beat those old Crabbet lines for producing good-minded athletes. And I say that even though my Arabs are predominantly Polish.

Good luck with that baby. He’s going to be special. And please keep us posted on how he does.

I didn’t notice the knee action with Aul Magic. He was marvelously athletic and just oozed charisma. And he’s a little guy, too. Probably 14.3 at most.

Edited to add: Now you tell me he’s got a blanket, too. I really am jealous. Pictures, please, whenever you get a chance. I’d love to see him.

[Sandy_M]

TS, while I agree with some of what you say, the “war horse” derivation for dressage has actually long since been discredited. “Dressage” as an exemplar of horse training is now said to have evolved more from the “carousel” exhibitions of the nobility of the 16th century onward, rather than war horses. So… I don’t think “heavy and obedient” are necessarily the criteria. Nor do I necessarily think that “spectacular to the verge of unrideable” unless you are a VERY talented rider is the ideal, either. Surely, somewhere in the middle ground - as you say, fluid, forward, brilliant but with athletic rather than nervous tension, a willing obedientce rather than barely contained, etc.???

[monstrpony]

[QUOTE=Two Simple;2032911]

When I think dressage, I think about stoic, explicitely trained military horses who are regimented, thorough and methodic, trustworthy, precision for combat, etc. They are heavy and unflappable. They are not hot and likely to run away with you. I think of horses who would face an attacker and bring you his head on a plate. Not a horse who is flighty, flashy, and electrified. I just always go back to the roots of the sport and that makes me realize how what we have in the show rings today is really really far from what it might ought to be. Ask yourself why dressage was cultivated? Was it to prove you had the hottest and flashiest horse, or was it to make sure you lived through the battle and got back home at the end of the day?[/QUOTE]

Honey, you don’t survive battle on something heavy and unflappable. The energy plays a role there, as well–it’s called intimidation (not to mention getting out of the way in a hurry …). And that’s why the training and control of all of that energy is so important (control by both the horse AND the rider, hence temperament with athletic ability is important).

But I don’t think the historical origins have any bearing on this discussion, because we aren’t living in history, we’re living today. If competitive dressage has morphed into something a little different, so be it–it is what it is, take it or leave it. Which you seem to be having trouble with, alas.

I still think that’s a pretty spectacular horse.

[mp]

[QUOTE=FoxxxyStarr;2032859]
you simply picked the wrong bulletin board to post this on.[/QUOTE]

Oh look! We’ve got a new mod.

[Auventera_Two]

@Sandy M;2032968

Nor do I necessarily think that “spectacular to the verge of unrideable” unless you are a VERY talented rider is the ideal, either. Surely, somewhere in the middle ground - as you say, fluid, forward, brilliant but with athletic rather than nervous tension, a willing obedientce rather than barely contained, etc.???

Yep, I definitely agree with that. Somewhere in the middle ground is probably the best thing. I just hate the see the sport migrate more and more toward that “almost over the edge, pushing the envelope right to the breaking point” mentality.

[canyonoak]

Hello?

1. This is a THREE YEAR OLD horse.

2. His gaits are not freakish. They are elastic and supple.
   Frankly, Hilda Gurney’s legendary TB, Keen, moved almost this ‘freakishly’ --and back in those good old days, once received a score of 4 on the trot, with the comment “too much suspension”.
   Keen. An American Thoroughbred. what? 30 years ago? Moved pretty much like this. That is why Hilda bought him.

3. What is amazing to me is the fact that this young horse can perform this well under such conditions. BUT this is also due to the masterful riding by a ‘young horse’ ace, Christian Flamm. That is why he is the one on the horse-- to SHOW OFF the horse. To SHOWCASE the horse. TO provide a way for people to see the horse in public setting.

This horse’s movement has very little in common with gaited horses: THIS horse, UNDER SADDLE, carrying a rider, continues to swing and maintain an elastic connection, even as he flexes his joints and pushes into the next stride.

I have never seen a gaited horse do this.

I have seen horses-other-than-warmbloods do this, Aul Magic being an outstanding example. Of course, Aul Magic is beloved not by breeders of Arabians-for-breed but by breeders of Arabians for sport<g>.

This horse, Quaterback, is bred for SPORT.

The SPORT of dressage.

I realize that this is a BB, and that some people really enjoy seeing their posts, seeing their screen names, getting people to reply in an emotional fashion.

it is a moment of power, and humans love to have moments of power.

But frankly, this horse should humble us all.

he has no human emotions. he trusts his rider enough to stay composed while a bunch of humans jump up and down scremaing and clapping and whooping and hollering.

I’d rather be on this horse and jump through the fires of hell than most of the horses I know.

I shall now go and ride my own lesser horses, and hope I have the humor and humility to enjoy them, and hope they trust me enough to give me even a bit of the partnership this young horse shows.

[bludejavu]

This is my first ever post on the dressage forum but I have to comment on Quaterback as being the most gorgeous mover I’ve ever seen in a dressage horse. I’m not a dressage person and my training and interests lie with Saddlebreds, but I can appreciate athleticism and grace in any breed, as well as star quality. I would say that 3 year old is blessed with all three of those virtues. I couldn’t find the in-hand video to watch but the under saddle video was amazing. I loved his suspended animation and personna - truly an incredible stallion!

[retrofit]

[QUOTE=Two Simple;2032911]

When I think dressage, I think about stoic, explicitely trained military horses who are regimented, thorough and methodic, trustworthy, precision for combat, etc. They are heavy and unflappable. They are not hot and likely to run away with you. I think of horses who would face an attacker and bring you his head on a plate. Not a horse who is flighty, flashy, and electrified.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the directives of the FEI tests before telling everyone what an upper-level prospect is, or isn’t.

[mp]

Great post, canyonoak.

PS – and I thought I’d be the only one here who knew about Aul Magic.

[Sandy_M]

[QUOTE=mp;2032949]
Edited to add: Now you tell me he’s got a blanket, too. I really am jealous. Pictures, please, whenever you get a chance. I’d love to see him.[/QUOTE]

I have never figured out how to post pics from my desk top to the BB. However, he is here:

http://www.confettifarms.com

Go to the sale horses and look at “Confetti’s Magic Marker.”

[slc2]

The idea that dressage came straight out of the military and is all about heavy horses is patently absurd.

karl mikolka is one who has repeatedly publicly disproven the idea that dressage has all its roots in military.

But the idea that miltary is all about heavy horses under some sort of control is nuts.

One of the most famous cavalry divisions of all time made their charge with the bits slipped from the horse’s mouths - no turning back, and yes, no real fine control. C

Cavalry and war is not about precision riding most of the time, and the idea that caprioles and levades were battle moves is so absurd it’s been hooted out of better places than here, despite how many times something is repeated in books like ‘The world of horses’ doesn’t make it true.

Perhaps some of the confusion came out of the military sponsoring teams to participate in equestrian sport, one of their other traditional roles.

In fact, the military had dozens of different kinds of horses and cavalry had horses that varied for terrain and purpose in every country. The Polish cavalry had lightning strike divisions riding light, fast, hot horses, so did the Hungarian cavalry, followed up by heavier caisson horses pulling caisson (gun boxes) and artillery horses. There are many different kinds of cavalry, it has varied all over, but cavalry and dressage being one and the same is nuts. They aren’t.

[kelliope]

[QUOTE=Equit8tor;2028719]
Be still my heart! I wish not for the money to own him, but for the talent to ride him as he should be ridden…[/QUOTE]

Oh, you took the words right out of my mouth. Of course, I hadn’t closed it yet as I was still watching the video!

[mp]

Holy moley, Sandy. He looks good standing still, but those shots of him trotting are incredible. Enjoy!

[FoxxxyStarr]

@canyonoak;2033026

2. His gaits are not freakish. They are elastic and supple.
   Frankly, Hilda Gurney’s legendary TB, Keen, moved almost this ‘freakishly’ --and back in those good old days, once received a score of 4 on the trot, with the comment “too much suspension”.
   Keen. An American Thoroughbred. what? 30 years ago? Moved pretty much like this. That is why Hilda bought him.

it is good to see that the judges agree with me. i find this much suspension displeasing to the eye. more is not always better.

This horse’s movement has very little in common with gaited horses: THIS horse, UNDER SADDLE, carrying a rider, continues to swing and maintain an elastic connection, even as he flexes his joints and pushes into the next stride.

I have never seen a gaited horse do this.

i suggest you look harder then? or perhaps what you are truly looking for is a breed specific type of movement? that would explain much.

[Sandy_M]

[QUOTE=mp;2033079]
Holy moley, Sandy. He looks good standing still, but those shots of him trotting are incredible. Enjoy![/QUOTE]

Thanks, I am very excited about this. Should I tell Quatermaster to look out?? ROFLOL~!!! (just kidding, of course!!!)

Of course, I also think I’m slightly crazy. I’m not exactly a kid any more, though I’m in pretty good shape for my age. I’ve helped people with youngsters, but I’ve always in the past bought horses that were at least “green broke.” And of course, I get sort of choked up, because while I made a very rational decision in purchasing this young gelding (I THINK I did - but it’s going to be a financial crunch), I’ve owned and loved my older guy for so long (see profile pic), that I keep saying, “I really didn’t want a new horse. I just want the one I’ve got to be 5 again!”

[siegi_b]

Oh no…!!! The Trailblazzer is back in all its ignorant and argumentative glory. Let’s run for cover and find a thread she has not contaminated yet.

[Bronte]

[QUOTE=siegi b.;2033167]
Oh no…!!! The Trailblazzer is back in all its ignorant and argumentative glory. Let’s run for cover and find a thread she has not contaminated yet.[/QUOTE]

Yep, looks that way to me! Let’s remember, classical mismatchers, like *** fill in your favourite name, are not discussing the topic, they just getting their jollies out of trolling.

Shame, must be awful to live that way!

[slc2]

those are the nicest color sport horses i have ever seen anyplace. nice job, sandy m!!