I dont think it is TB.Different writing style to TB but still familiar.No capitals which irks me and reads way to much into peoples posts.Doesnt seem to like dressage or have much understanding of it yet still speaks with a power of authority on the subject.Why come to this forum ?
That original video was interesting to watch, thanks for posting the link.
I wonder, in 50 years, will we watch that clip and say, “What a horse!” or “What were we thinking?!”
[QUOTE=NoDQhere;2027399]
I went back and looked at the video again and I DID find something wrong with this horse. I CAN’T AFFORD HIM :lol:
Seriously though, this is a very nice horse who, IMO, will be capable of doing anything. Most likely, though, because of his movement he will become a dressage horse.
To the folks who think that because he is too good, that that, somehow makes him not good enough…When you get beat in the dressage arena whilst riding those all arounders, please don’t whine 
This is what serious sport horse breeders are breeding for :yes:[/QUOTE]
Amen, amen, amen. To EVERYTHING you just said!!!
With that sort of talent and temperament to be so relaxed and supple in such an electric atmosphere, especially at the age of three, who gives a rat’s arse if you can trail ride him? Seriously. Besides, if you can afford him, then you can afford to buy another horse to trail ride with :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=Two Simple;2027804]
Repeat after me - HOCK INJECTIONS.
The horse is bloody 3 years old ferchristsake. THREE. He’s doing all this under saddle at 3??? [/QUOTE]
All what? Walk trot and canter? As someone else pointed out - he would do a hell of a lot more out in a field playing. He was relaxed and easy as could be in that arena and the rider was not pushing him. Where’s the harm?
actually a wealthy lady i know had a very fancy youngster like this that she imported and spend a huge wad on. she trail rode him all the time. aside from a bare *** little bit of dressage schooling, as a youngster, he did hill work, jumped cross country, and YES, she got the mail out the mailbox from his back on the way home. and the barn i worked at that started and prepped nice youngsters like these (not quite this high a calibre, but nice), they ALSO were trail ridden with a pack of mangey houngs and one rider with a parrot on her shoulder. they sometimes drank beer while they rode, does that make it better?
[QUOTE=asb_own_me;2033673]
All what? Walk trot and canter? As someone else pointed out - he would do a hell of a lot more out in a field playing. He was relaxed and easy as could be in that arena and the rider was not pushing him. Where’s the harm?[/QUOTE]
Actually no. Having to balance with a rider sitting on your very immature back and being ridden like he is- held up and together by a very talented rider is much harder on the back and joints especially the stifles and hocks than careening around the pasture. (just ask a very good lameness vet who treats all the soft tissue and hock issues on these horses before they are 6)
I love the “freakish” movement of horses like this one, Florencio, Farbenfroh what have you. I am a big dressage fan, but I do agree a little with TS on some stuff.
There is a big money incentive and these horses are being pushed. He is ridden in a way that many German trainers too (those who blast the auction riding style) would take issue with. My horse was started by a European trainer who has sent horses on to international competition. He said to me, “we do not sit on them when they are three. We don’t use very short reins and high hands like they do at the auction. The horse must get strong in the back. It must stretch to the contact, you can not restrain them so much and hold them back.” This horse is very tight and not stretching at all. His neck looks shorter than it is. He is wide behind because he is being pushed. A horse might run around for a stride or two in such carriage when it is excited but it would not maintain a frame like that for the extended period of time that the rider has insured that he has. This rider is not just sitting there out of the way and having this horse show it self off. He is a very skilled rider with abs of steel who is sitting on and holding the horse in this carriage. Just watch the video again and see what happens when the horse wants to stretch down. The average rider (assuming they could sit his movement) could not hold this horse together like this.
Also, I love this horse and think he has a ton of talent and potential, but those of you who suggest that this is how the horse would go free are way off base. A rider like this has a ton of influence on the horse’s way of going without being obvious about it. That is why these riders become famous for showing off the young ones. For example, Hans Peter Minderhoud and Florencio. I love Florencio, but the way Hans Peter shows him off, let’s just say he really enhances the horse. When Florencio went to the Dutch testing and was ridden by a woman, his gaits and impression were much less. I just firmly believe the rider is doing more with this horse than many of you think.
Also, I will assert again that the horse is prone to a passagey trot when he is held up in this frame and quite frankly has no where to go.
Maybe he is only ridden like this at the show to show himself off. Maybe he is usually allowed longer reins and the opportunity to develop his back. But there are other competitions on the horizons and many more opportunities to push the horse. He may make it and he may very well not.
For a large percentage of the horses that don’t make it- those who may not be obviously lame or have a soft tissue injury or need hock injections, but are just not right, you know they loose the spark and are no longer so dynamic, I honestly think a lot of them have undiagnosed back problems. If you could nuke scan the lot of them, I bet a large percentage of their backs would light up.
Some of you seem to think that all German training (or winning German training) is divine. Anyone who disagrees or feels this is pushing the horses is a stupid American amateur. In America, they invented this artificial way of having the horse carry its head low and loose its balance. Americans are fools to have the horse seek the contact and not hold its neck in so tight. People who do this must also run their horses around in deep footing and longe all the time. And all German horses are started and after a month are ready to win training level and then turned out to live the life for a few months in a big green pasture. Yeah right. A lot of the horses in Germany almost never get out or are raised in stalls. A lot are pushed and broken down but no worry they have so many quality horses there, it is just on to the next one. A lot of the brightest flames burn out so quickly-- Poetin, Fuerst Heinrich etc etc etc.
I don’t ride with my horses nose on the ground or do natural horsemanship stuff or spend years at training level. I ride in rubber footing with a nationally successful FEI trainer. My horse was raised in a large pasture and not started until she was over three. She is ready for FEI 5 year olds and I did not sit on her back when she was 3.
i find this much suspension displeasing to the eye.
You must be joking? Perhaps because your brain has told your eye you would probably never be able to ride it! There is nothing “freakish” about his movement. At all. You are just probably not used to seeing such movement.
[QUOTE=Dalfan;2033832]
You must be joking? Perhaps because your brain has told your eye you would probably never be able to ride it! There is nothing “freakish” about his movement. At all. You are just probably not used to seeing such movement.[/QUOTE]
on the contrary, i am quite serious. such movement is becoming more and more common, and those on many dressage bulletin boards do not even seem to know that other types of movement exist. i have always found this type of movement visually displeasing, and i see no reason why this would mean i am a less competent horseperson. i find the movement exaggerated and wasteful, and i am entitled to this as my opinion. just as your are entitled to prefer such movement. why must one of us be stupid or ignorant? is there not room for people to disagree? my confusion comes from the fact that the video of this young show horse was posted on a dressage forum, and then people are shocked and appalled when not everyone is ready to breed to this unproven horse. i hope his passagey trot and moving wide behind are straightened out. he will most likely have a valuable future in the Warmblood world. but why post this on a dressage forum? would you not jump at the chance to criticize pictures from other breed’s shows?
Chiming in in San Diego
I think I MIGHT know who bought the Reserve Champion stallion in the 2nd video…the one that is free in the ring and then shown in hand (Sandro Hit x Plaisir d’Amour). I don’t want to name names because I’m not 100% certain, but if I’m correct he’ll be coming to San Diego.
I’m curious. What exactly bothers you about his movement?
I did not call you ignorant or stupid. Sorry if I gave that impression.
And you keep calling him a “show horse”. He is far from being a show horse at this point in his young life. He’s just a baby, under saddle for probably not more than 2 months, doing w-t-c. Not a big deal. But a show horse? No.
What better forum than a dressage forum to view what many in the dressage world strive for?
[QUOTE=Dalfan;2033912]
I’m curious. What exactly bothers you about his movement?
I did not call you ignorant or stupid. Sorry if I gave that impression.
And you keep calling him a “show horse”. He is far from being a show horse at this point in his young life. He’s just a baby, under saddle for probably not more than 2 months, doing w-t-c. Not a big deal. But a show horse? No.
What better forum than a dressage forum to view what many in the dressage world strive for?[/QUOTE]
i don’t think he’s a terrible mover or anything like that. he is obviously a very beautiful and athletic horse. but his type of movement does not appeal to me and many others, and there is nothing wrong with this. as i said before, this horse has a passagey trot and exhibits what i feel to be too much suspension. we all know that the trot must have some suspension, but now it seems that suspension is being viewed as a desirable trait in itself rather than indicative of correct bearing. anyway, this airtime makes him a very eyecatching horse who will be able to wow the crowd, but i am not sure why this in particular so impresses the dressage people. Quaterback appears to be a show horse to me in that he is participating at an exhibition with the crowd as spectators? it looks like a horse show from the video, but if i am wrong i apologize. it is fine to strive for this type of horse, but many seem to be contemptuous towards those who do not. is there not room for all of us in the world of dressage?
Gee, I sense someone who is twisting my words and is trying to get me PO’d and give them a fight. Good luck! :lol:
Really, it is not fair to judge him because afterall, he is just a baby. I would expect to see faults (ie, wide behind, strength in the hind, using the front a little more than what some might desire) at this stage of development and in his training. Having all that against him, what he does display in really just natural gifts is breathtaking to watch. He is very impressive, doubly so for his age and in that kind of environment. I would expect in 2 years, with correct training, he will be truly phenomenal.
Foxy; Your style of writing and thought is very familiar. I notice you joined Nov 30. Why the alter?
Ok I NEED to interject here. Besides being appealing to the eye, there is a function to that trot, there is a reason they breed for that, and it all relates to his ability to do dressage. Everyone here is argueing whether or not the horse was “trained” to do passage. He is just three,and even if he was asked for tiny steps, which I myself highly doubt, he is doing passagy movement DAMN WELL.Take your three year old all arounder out. Take and ride him 4 months walk trot canter…hey TRY and get half the passage out of him that this horse shows with his sort of passagy movement.I doubt anyone in the world could get much passage out of the draft cross I own, let alone at three yeards old!! She isnt built or bred for it. This horse is on the other extreme. My point is, there is a real good chance this horse is doing that passagy movement just by himself, with not real initiative other than being held back a tad. That is called ability. It is easy for the horse to compress and direct that energy upward. This is what 99 percent of the dressage horses out there lack and this is why not all horses are going to do grand prix. Anyone who is serious about dressage competition can see the INCREDIBLE value in this horses gaits, because we all know that EVERYTHING is going to be easy for this horse. That is what every competative dressage rider wants. Talent and natural ability. And that is something you dont train…it is there from birth. I think it’s hilarious that people who arent competative in dressage even comment about their perception about this horses value as a dressage horse. Really, he wasn’t bred to appeal to trail riders and people who are into little local shows. He was bred for the international competative dressage arena, and that is where he will knock the socks off everyone who knows what a dressage horse is supposed to be. End of story.
chicki you took the owrds right out of mouth echo you --------
got my vote matey
[QUOTE=FoxxxyStarr;2033891]
would you not jump at the chance to criticize pictures from other breed’s shows?[/QUOTE]
No!!! why would I want to go to another breed’s forum, or another disciplines’ forum and criticize their style and preferences. Doing that is just going to make me look like a brawler, an idiot, or a troll. I asked in a post a long ways back on this thread, why criticize another breed for not moving like a warmblood, why criticize a warmblood for not moving like another breed??? What’s the point, just to irritate the people who love that type of horse? What does that get you?
Also, I think people often forget that there are different levels of competition in any discipline:
First, there is the local level. I, for one, am a local level rider. I ride for pleasure, to learn more, and will show a little bit in the local shows. I’m very happy with a nice horse, pleasant movement, maybe an all-rounder. Very appropriate horse for that level.
Then there are people who compete regionally, and if you’re going to score high enough to win awards, you might want some fancier movement, but an all-rounder can still be competitve at this level.
Then there is the National level. Have to have a pretty fancy horse to compete nationally, and the higher the level (FEI), then the fancier the horse has to be.
Then there’s the International level. Well, if you want to win, you need to have bigger movement, more suspension, etc.
Sometimes I think people confound the international level with the local level. For example, this breathtaking stallion is bred for the highest levels of sport, whether from jumping lines or dressage lines. He was bred very specifically for the highest levels of sport - not as an all-rounder. Not that he couldn’t be a trail horse, but why make that his goal in life, when he is suitable to show at the highest levels. As others have said, it would be ridiculous for a rider like me with local level skills and abilities to ride such a horse (scary to watch!!!), but that doesn’t mean that I can’t drool over him and appreciate him for what he is.
And yes, as a local level rider (and longtime COTH subscriber), I mostly lurk on this dressage board, and sometimes participate, just because there are people here who do compete seriously and do have more information than I have. But I also observe the people who come in to argue and dissent often for what appears to be no other reason than to annoy people. Why? What does it get you? Some sense of superiority because you are better? It gives you the sense that you know more, you’ve been there and left it behind? You’re a brave dissenter? It just doesn’t come off that way.
There has been some interesting discussion about the quality of the trot, traveling wide behind, why & how to ride young horses, etc. Some people have interesting information and opinions to offer about these issues, conducive to constructive or informative discussion. Just going on and saying you don’t like something in an inflamatory manner, why bother?
That is a gorgeous horse and this thread has been quite entertaining to read from start to finish.
Hey, I just went back to go watch the video for the 10,000 time. I think they just put up more videos of others that participated in the parade. Maybe they are on to us. :winkgrin:
ahh, so those who find dressage boring to watch are ignorant. sounds like those who dislike modern art. they just don’t know enough to appreciate it, right? the whole point of dressage is that it SHOULD be boring to watch. the best ride is the one you don’t even notice. that’s why dressage is different from saddle seat.
Nope, not necessarily ignorant, maybe just not interested in dressage. Your analogy about modern art is right on target. Many don’t care for it at all, couldn’t say what makes a piece valuable and therefore would presume to try. Anyone who is interested in dressage and has the experience to know and/or taken the time to understand what the goals are knows the potential this horse represents. The rest of y’all? Well, some people just like to be the floating Baby Ruth in the punch bowl of life
When I think dressage, I think about stoic, explicitely trained military horses who are regimented, thorough and methodic, trustworthy, precision for combat, etc. They are heavy and unflappable. They are not hot and likely to run away with you. I think of horses who would face an attacker and bring you his head on a plate. Not a horse who is flighty, flashy, and electrified. I just always go back to the roots of the sport and that makes me realize how what we have in the show rings today is really really far from what it might ought to be. Ask yourself why dressage was cultivated? Was it to prove you had the hottest and flashiest horse, or was it to make sure you lived through the battle and got back home at the end of the day?
This assumption is at odds with what dressage have been about since I have been involved with it (about 35+ years). Dressage is about the combination between the horse and rider of energy, submission and brilliance. The description you put forth is worthy of and could be achieved by a robot. It sounds slavish and demands the loss of individuality from a species that is inherently proud. Dressage is about partnership, respect and gaits, horse and rider pushing the envelope together, not rote drilling.
If you want to consider its military roots (which are largely over-emphsized as the origins of the sport), the horse that would provide the best advantage was the horse that was most athletic, that could collect and extend, elevate its front end and contain its energy with ease. It was up to the skillful rider to develop the horse and, more importantly, the relationship. This is the point that many choose to overlook because it places the burden of development squarely where it belongs, with the rider. But as always, it has always been easier to blame failure on the horse.
I have several screen names on my ignore list, but have seen enough quotes from posts to realize WHY, all over again, an Ignore List is a good thing.
Thank you , List Mods! for providing such a useful function.
That said, Im posting here again to say one more THANK YOU to ebt, eurobreederstour, for taking the time to put these exciting videos up for us to look at.
EBT and Horsedances make these BBs worthwhile for me, no matter what else goes on.
Noe, if only Santa or SInterklaas or anyone else could put high-speed on my list of presents, so I could WATCH these videos in this lifetime, I’d be a VERY good girl for the rest of the year.
hahahahahah
