Around here, $100k gets you something actually legally uninhabitable - cash only “investment” properties that will likely be bulldozed or nearly. Saw one listed at $90k the other day on a tiny corner lot that was mostly trash and studs. You CAN find a trailer park and buy a nice mobile home if you go far enough out but trailer park fees are NOT cheap. Land is crazy expensive and the buildable areas are getting gobbled up by developers at an alarming rate; if it’s flat, an investor is willing to pay BIG bucks.
I’m in a low-to-middle COL area, depending on which county your address is in.
If I could go back in time and change one thing, just one little ol’ thing out of All The Things, I would force Congress to, some how some way, tie minimum wage to inflation. Sometimes I sit around and daydream about what that world would look like today, le sigh.
Anyhoo. Not saving for retirement is not a “sacrifice”, it’s shooting yourself in the foot and then expecting society to foot the bill for it. No horse in the world is worth homelessness at age 70. This is not a “choice” and it’s disingenuous to frame it as such. Not trying to pick on you Ajierene, but it’s just an illusion of choice, and not a real option for people trying to work horses into their lives.
~ Signed,
Child free, horse free girl who just replaced her 2002 Honda Accord after 22 beautiful years and has had maybe 2 new cell phones in the last decade, and has absolutely zero idea how people afford children.
Also not trying to pick here, but Ajierene, you have to acknowledge luck on your side that you have someone willing to board your horse for free. Most people in your same position would be SOL.
Just as I have luck (and privilege) on my side that I was born to the parents that I was and had the leg ups I had. Not having a car payment for over 10 years or student loans helped me out so much more than I ever realized when I was younger.
OMG, I am so glad you said this. And I’m the same. Only owned 2 smartphones in my life (I am going to have to replace mine soon; it’s a safety issue more with holding a charge, not that I need something fancy), and I drove a 2005 Honda for years. Now I’m on a 2010 RAV. No kids by choice. But I can’t even afford to take lessons right now, much less lease or own.
Having the ability to keep horses at home is itself a privilege few have. It’s not a “budget” option. Even having the skills to barter for board on a horse farm were likely won with a certain degree of privilege in one’s upbringing. Maybe that wasn’t always the case, when people grew up on farms, but that certainly is today, when the knowledge that makes you valuable on a horse farm (handling horses is a skill) isn’t easily come by.
And I totally agree with saving for retirement. People, especially people over 50, shouldn’t be shamed for prioritizing that over horse expenses. Nor should they be shamed for, say, putting money into basic maintenance of a house (which is a worthwhile investment) versus a horse. Kind of get tired of this “if you’re not living in a trailer with a flip phone and a 1999 Chevy, you’re living a fancy lifestyle and putting horses second” mentality I see, sometimes.
My point is that we tend to talk past each other in these discussions.
Just like my sis-in-law being of the mind that “standard” child raising involves going on vacations, going away for the weekends, spontaneously deciding to go to Hershey Park. In my area of the world, middle class for a family of 4 is $70K/year so someone making $60K is likely making ends meet by not going on vacations and not living in a nice house with a pool - but that’s my point. My sis-in-laws view is colored by her expectations
Just like the view of someone I know that adequate horse care starts with a stall available that the horse occupies for half the day. My standard starts with 24/7 turn out and is preferable over having a stall - that means I can “get away” with lower cost board because I am willing to board somewhere where a stall is not available.
When I say something is not affordable, I mean the individual would be out on the street if they tried to afford that, not that they could not save enough for retirement. It’s great that someone is thinking of that and making decisions based on that but “out on the street” vs “can’t save as much as I feel is necessary for a comfortable retirement” are two different conversations.
EDIT: Note - the average price of a house in my area is also $370K, my house is currently worth a little less than half that.
I completely agree with this. That’s how I lucked into where I am now - owner wanted to have a boarder over the winter, more to have someone to ride with and maybe feed while they are gone, rather than needing the money. But she didn’t want just anyone off the street. So when I reached out to her because I was moving my horse and needed someplace, she was happy to have me but it was just going to be “over the winter”, which was fine, at the time I just needed to figure some things out.
Well, she ended up with a young horse that she needs help starting, then another (retirement horses for herself and her husband) and so on…years later, I’m still there.
I don’t know where you live, but I…have questions…about this perspective.
I live, as I have already stated, in a fairly LCOL area (TN). Average rent in this state is $1795/month, or $22k/year. $60k, after taxes in this state would be roughly $49k/year. $49-22 = $27k/year, or $2,250/month. Average day care costs in this state are about $1,100/month. So, now we are down to $1,140/month for all utilites, groceries, vehicle, etc. costs. (As a single person who is only home seven hours per day on weekdays, my BASELINE utilities are $400/month…)
Tell me again how expensive vacations are what prevent people from having children.
I agree with a lot of your points, but I kind of disagree with this part.
Knowledge is free. Yes, it takes time to acquire, but it is not hard to come by. Everyone with a farm needs help.
I’ve made this argument before and often get a lot of push back: “I’m too old/too busy/too experienced of a rider to start from zero/too inexperienced to be of help” etc. etc. But you (general) just need to get out there and do it.
Every second spent around horses is a learning opportunity. If someone wishes they could work off their board but don’t think they are experienced enough, work to change that! Be open to learning. Watch. Ask questions. Put yourself out there. The skills that will make you successful in the barn truly don’t have anything to do with horses: being reliable, coachable, humble, observant, persistent… if you can do that part, the horse part comes easily.
I’ve owned horses on a shoestring budget all of my life. Now, I definitely would not say I’m the poster child for money management! And I certainly had an advantage growing up with farm and horse access. But part of the reason I’ve been able to make things work without a trust fund is because I am always learning and staying involved. I can be savvy about how to spend my limited funds to make sure my horses have what they need. I can offset costs by doing a lot of things myself when possible. These are the kind of things anyone can learn to do.
Sorry to blather on about this! I just feel passionately that horses don’t need to be inaccessible ultra-luxuries, even with today’s high costs.
Rent: avg $1300 (per the internet)
Power costs (based on what I pay with a little padding): $200/month (kind of depends on if the unit has centrail air or not - a lot of rentals around me do not)
Gas for a car: let’s say $200/month (mine is $30/fill up and I fill up 4-5 times a month - but half the residents of my neighborhood don’t own cars)
Average Day care: $1100/month (per the internet)
Groceries: um…$500/month sound right for a family of 4?
So, total $3300/month
$60K/year - we’ll go with your number of $49K take home, which is about $4K per month.
So they are not putting to retirement in an ideal fashion If at all) and probably don’t have a lot of cushion if something should happen and it isn’t IDEAL - but it also isn’t living on the street. So…the ends are meeting…just about.
Keep in mind, I’m not saying this is ideal, but my point is people DO raise kids - my point is my sister-in-law’s perspective on “necessities” for her kids are different than other people and conflates the conversation. I took my niece and one of her friends on a museum trip - the friend was given $20 for the entire trip. Museum admission alone was I think $17 - when we picked her up, I noted her house looked
Ideally, everyone could raise a family with oppportunities for vacations, museum trips, but they do raise kids on that.
NOTE: I never said “expensive vacations”, I just said vacations - I don’t think people raising kids on $60K/year are going on ANY vacations. They also probably came from families that didn’t go on any vacations while they were growing up so their perspective on “necessary” is vastly different than my sister-in-law - which is, again, the point.
So, no one in your hypothetical example is commuting, huh?
I spend $500-600/month on gas. And I’m only one person. Double that figure for a two-career household, and then your hypothetical family is in the red before they buy food, clothing, car insurance, or school supplies.
This made me laugh - I guess I should lead with this more often!
To your other point, I didn’t own horses growing up and my mom didn’t have time to drive me to the barn so I biked, after school and during the summer, to the barn. I remember the first summer I went to the barn and the deal at the place was “work 8 hrs and get one hour of riding”. The barn owner was SHOCKED that I did 8 hrs of work the first day (and had notes to show it). I just kept working and doing things every day and the other kids were more just hanging out. I was the one that would ride the horses that came straight from the auction - to see how sane they were - but I just wanted riding time.
By my junior year of HS, everyone else either owned or leased and I just kept working.
To your point again - where I board now, I’ve been working with her horses on and off for some 20 years before I started keeping my horse there. I helped her start the horse she then rode happily for 15 years. So, while I am completely lucky that I am able to be there - that luck came from having a skill and proving my worth.
There is a kid that helps around the farm now - 16 or 17 - he didn’t come there with knowledge, just a desire to do work and willingness to do farm work. He can now drive the tractor to cut the fields and put round bales out for the cows. He can take care of the cows, repair fencing, trim branches, and he can fix equipment because he sits down and figures it out. I would love for him to move into the other house on the property, I think it would be great for my friends if they could have that help.
Well, I mean one guy in my neighborhood walked the 2 miles to the Walmart where he worked (when he didn’t get a ride from someone).
I gave another lady a ride to work once because the bus didn’t come - she was just outside the Wawa I was stopping at, not another neighbor.
But I commute about 20 miles one way to work and my costs are right in the part you quoted so not sure what you mean about not commuting. I live in a densely populated area where a 20-30 mile commute is generally on the far side.
I guess I didn’t think to double it…but still…that’s assuming BOTH parents have a car when half the people in my town don’t even have one car per household…so…
20 miles doesn’t even get you to the other side of my rural county. 20 miles is not a commute when you live in the rural South (you know, where the cost of living is low enough to make horse ownership feasible for a whole lot of us). My commute is 87 miles each way.
People “complain” they don’t have the skills or the time or the access to learn how to be useful and self-sufficient in the barn.
But they had the exact same time and access, they just didn’t take advantage of it in the same way.
The knowledge needed to work with animals can be taught to anyone, but there’s often inherent personality traits that make some folks a lot more successful than others. It’s hard to articulate and often just gets written off as “being a hard-worker” for lack of a better description. But it’s more of a passion and desire to want to be on the farm and with the animals and learn as much as possible.
I WOULD DIE! My aunt, who lives in North Carolina, did that for YEARS and I cannot imagine. I don’t even like my 20 mile/30-35 min (used to be 25 min but they are restructering the on/off ramps where I get on 95 and the traffic is worse now).
To give you a feel for where I live - between Baltimore and Philadelphia and those cities are about 100 miles apart. So you can imagine all the jobs along that corridor - of every career type and experience level.
I live in a significantly lower cost of living area compared to DE/PA (the line for both is about 5 miles from my house) and some other counties - second poorest county in MD, rather rural, so still a good number of farms and generational farms where board isn’t higher due to owner having to cover a mortgage. It’s a weird and interesting place…
They have a county fair! We never had that growing in Central NJ! Tractor pulls, cow patty tossing, demolition derby, 4H kids…and the DuPonts live about 20 miles away in DE, Southeastern PA is full of old money…very interesting…
I don’t recommend it. But I’m a crazy person, I guess, and the alternative would be not owning horses, so I suck it up and don’t have a life outside work and my little farmette.
The irony of this conversation is I’m from the exact place you are describing (born and raised in SE PA right at the PA/MD/DE line, currently on the eastern shore). But I also spent 11 years in the same general area as @Montanas_Girl.
Owning horses here in this region of the mid-Atlantic is 100% easier and cheaper than owning horses in middle Tennessee. We are so blessed around here. People hate it when I tell them that.
Tennessee may be lower cost of living, but it’s a much higher horse cost of living.
And my horse lives about a 15 min trailer ride from Fairhill and about 20 min from a new park in Chesapeake City area - and people wonder why I don’t have a desire to move!
We’re not talking past each other, I just disagree with your narrow point of view of what affordability means. IMO, if you buy a horse you need to account for the possibility that that horse might need extra care in order to be comfortable, you can’t separate that out from a discussion of whether horses are affordable or not. Vet expenses, special shoeing, particular board arrangements, etc should all be factored in to the decision of whether or not you can afford a horse. If your plan relies on the horse being an easy keeper and being happy at the cheapest available boarding barn and never needing specialized shoeing or medication and never having a major vet emergency that’s a terribly irresponsible plan. I also think if you have to forego even minimal retirement contributions, cut out needed expenses for yourself, or rack up debt to get by you can’t afford horses even if you technically aren’t “out on the street.”
From everything you’ve written YOU can’t afford your horse, so I’m not sure why you’re so committed to the idea that horses are affordable for everyone. To bring it back to the point of the thread, the fact that even someone with fairly minimal expenses who isn’t saving for retirement can’t afford to spend more than $100 on board or training is exactly why so many trainers are struggling to make a living themselves. Of course they’re shifting towards the upper end of the market for clients, that’s the only thing left.
