Interesting - re body protectors.

Reportedly the EXOs were tested with rotational crush injuries in mind. And used to do demos with Land Rovers parked on someone wearing an EXO while reading a book, etc. Never saw that myself but heard about it, and I’m sure many of you did! Not that they tested with Land Rovers, I remember reading something about sand bags, but I don’t recall the specifics.

It seems actual testing was done on that equipment, but not sure to what standard and how the experiments were designed/if they were good ones. That’s always the rub, anyone can do “testing” but what really matters is how well the testing is designed and carried out to prove what it is supposed to prove. At least, however, they tried, which is more than seems to be said for the air vests.

I won’t and probably never will wear an air vest. They scare me a bit- they get so hard/tight when they go off. A friend wore one and had a minor fall where it went off. She told me she could hardly breathe with it on, and that’s without injuries.

[QUOTE=kookicat;8149643]
I won’t and probably never will wear an air vest. They scare me a bit- they get so hard/tight when they go off. A friend wore one and had a minor fall where it went off. She told me she could hardly breath with it on, and that’s without injuries.[/QUOTE]

They terrify me - one of the basic rules of first aid is that you DO NOT MOVE THE INJURED PERSON, and if an air vest doesn’t inflate until after the injury occurs (say because you don’t part company from your horse so the lanyard doesn’t pull out and you get squished) then that is a heck of a lot of being moved quite suddenly.

Also, some of the more knowledgable folks have pointed out that being forced to keep your spine rigid can actually CAUSE some very nasty spinal cord injuries in certain types of falls. (Like if you get lawn darted and land on your head.)

ETA: Honestly, if one of the air vest companies is trying to claim that their vest would’ve prevented his death, I want someone to sue them to make them put up actual scientific proof, or shut up. I’m not usually sue happy, but that’s an awful marketing strategy.

[QUOTE=FrittSkritt;8149317]
Ugh, in the meantime PointTwo is trying to use his accident as marketing, saying he “owned a PointTwo air jacket but was not wearing one that day.” Then they go to say that if you use an air vest, it will bring it up to Beta Level 3.
https://www.facebook.com/pointtwouk/videos/906845982691641/

Christ on a cracker. :mad: (By the way, I found this link via EN’s Twitter feed.)[/QUOTE]

Wow, that is just astonishing. From a marketing perspective that really sucks. I can’t believe there are likes/positive comments. Additionally, that bit about it making a vest Beta 3, without any sort of testing/proof is really offensive misinformation.

Unfortunately I think it’s hard to know if the airvest caused those because they are fairly common injuries in horse falls anyway. I had broken ribs, collapsed lung, compression fractures from a non-rotational fall (wearing a Beta Level 3 vest, no airvest) and horse people with those same injuries seemed to come out of the woodwork to share experiences.

I have an Airowear Outlyne. I like mine (despite the above referenced spill), if you buy from UK they are about half the price of a CO or RP. Compared to my Tipp it is a bit life-vestish, I definitely notice some bulk under my arms, but I think anything without the laces is like that and you forget quickly. FWIW the sizing is very short and boxy IMO–I am neither long upper bodied nor unusually slim but had to get a “long slim” size.

[QUOTE=HiJumpGrrl;8149507]
Yeah, flail chest is flail chest. Nothing is going to prevent that, I don’t think.[/QUOTE]

An EXO could prevent this, depending on forces. Blunt force trauma, yes. Crush, yes. Axial or torsional loading, probably no.

But this accident was blunt force trauma and crush.

Point Two is really, really beneath contempt to try to market their products off of this death and inquest.

Point Two are disgusting and should have more respect than they do.

The family has released a statement and it’s pretty clear they unhappy with all the speculation about what a vest may or may have not prevented.

As an aside it severely irritates me when horse safety gear is compared to motorcycle racing gear. As someone who was engaged to a road racer (and attended the Daytona 200 on pit crew pass) I will tell you they are nothing alike. So stop that. If we want to talk about it more we can start a new thread but I’m going to start calling people out on this bullshit from now on.

EN has this article on the statement from the family

http://eventingnation.com/home/jordan-mcdonalds-family-releases-statement-on-recent-inquest/

Tipperary may be a popular vest in North America, but the earlier versions were never tested and never met ANY standard, BETA or otherwise.

I just looked and there is an ASTM standard for vests. It’s ASTMF1937-04 (2010).

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8151538]
Tipperary may be a popular vest in North America, but the earlier versions were never tested and never met ANY standard, BETA or otherwise.

I just looked and there is an ASTM standard for vests. It’s ASTMF1937-04 (2010).[/QUOTE]

Yes and we have been over this again and again. The reason the tips were not “approved” is because you could theoretically sustain a puncture wound between the panels. There is no peer reviewed science backing any sort of vest that I know of. Vests protect against Minor injuries. That’s it.

Seeing in that story that the UK requires Beta Level 3 for events sort of puts the “substandard” comment in perspective. It was not a judgement on the relative merits of the vests but rather pointing out that he was in violation of the rule.

How very sad. While nothing, except maybe the engineered EXO, could reduce those level of crush injuries & impact force, it is frustrating that thin/untested vests are even still available.

For those looking for a Level 3 vest, I adore (& have, um, ‘field tested’) my Rodney Powell – when I first zip it up, I feel like a body cast, but within a minute, the foam warms to my body & I forget it’s there with no motion limitations. I ordered it from VTO, service was excellent, plus I have weird body proportions so required the custom (thank goodness it was a Xmas gift, I’m broke eternally).

And I REALLY loved it when I was somersaulted over horse’s head at full gallop & landed flat on my back on top of a wooden coop & remember thinking “wow, I love this thing, that didn’t hurt at all!” (science geek disclaimer: that is anecdotal response only, but the science is there too, as it is for the KAN, which I’ve also tried on & talked to designer, loved it)

We can never remove risk, only do our best to mitigate it & I send my deepest empathy to his family & loved ones; I lost the one I love in an untimely, unfair way too, & grief is unkind, but you are not alone. <3

I just special ordered a custom Airowear Outlyne. When I first was looking at vests it felt like a box. Luckily I found a rep at a local tack store event and she did measurements for me. What she was saying is with the new Airowears there are over 90 size combinations so a lot of people have a hard time fitting them. I ended up with a T2, short, extra slim. I walked around the store in it and my body temperature softened the foam so much, I could move very freely. In fact, I was teasing with friends about how comfortable it was I could literally (yes I’m crazy like that) do yoga with the vest on (yes in the store during an event). The price point was the best. $300 off the rack, $60 to make it custom (that includes custom colors). The store offered 20% off all purchases that day so I ended up paying $275 for a custom designed and fit vest. I can’t wait until it arrives. For now, I borrow a fellow boarders older model Airowear.

It’s very sad anytime anyone passes away. Thoughts and prayers to the family and loved ones.

[QUOTE=Manahmanah;8151472]

As an aside it severely irritates me when horse safety gear is compared to motorcycle racing gear. As someone who was engaged to a road racer (and attended the Daytona 200 on pit crew pass) I will tell you they are nothing alike. [/QUOTE] Just out of curiosity, what year were you at the 200?

I was in the pits at the Daytona 200 every year from 1980 to 1985 and 1989 to 2000. and I have raced on the track myself.

Which Rodney Powell vest do you have? I see a couple models.

A friend fell off a couple weeks ago and didn’t let go of her reins and pulled her horse right onto her, crushing some ribs. Last time I was bucked off I also held on to the reins, but the whole bridle pulled off the horse. Since I now have a very green horse, and am older and much more of a desk jockey, I’ve been inspired to go vest shopping.

I find the options overwhelming.

This is a horrible accident, condolences to the rider’s friends and family.

Calls for international standardisation of body protectors after rider killed

         Riders are calling for international standardisation of body protectors after the <a href="http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/jordan-mcdonald-fall-body-protector-inquest-493007">inquest into the death of Jordan McDonald</a>  at last year's Nunney Horse Trials reported that the Canadian event  rider was wearing a body protector that would not have met British  Eventing's (BE) safety standards.

Jordan (pictured, top), 30, was riding Only Me in a novice section on 14 June 2014. The pair had a rotational fall at fence 7a on the cross-country course and Jordan suffered “fatal chest injuries”, the inquest last week (12 May) found.
When returning a verdict of accidental death, Tim Hayden, assistant coroner for East Somerset, said: “There were multiple fractures on each side of the ribcage, four on one side and five on the other, and a laceration of the lung which made the process of resuscitation very difficult and subsequently impossible.”
Accident and emergency consultant Dr Michael Whitlock, who was on duty at the event, said: “The area where the lung was damaged probably had no protection. It is difficult to predict the severity of the injuries if a Class Three [BETA standard] body protector had been worn.”
Dr Whitlock confirmed to H&H that Jordan “was not wearing a body protector that conformed to any recognised international standard”.
He added: “He was wearing a high-standard Charles Owen hat that was markedly damaged but he had no brain injury so the helmet did its job.”
The coroner confirmed to H&H that Jordan had not been wearing an air jacket.

No global standard

While British Eventing (BE) has clear rules on the standard of body protector which must be worn — and has announced that it will review the current rules following this inquest — the FEI has no rules on the subject.
The 2015 FEI eventing rule book only states, in reference to cross-country: “Body protectors are compulsory for this test.”
Bruce Haskell, of the International Eventing Riders Association, said the group had “been pushing the FEI for a minimum standard of body protectors for some time”.
“We accept that eventing is a high-risk sport, but there are two areas — head protection and body protection — that can help reduce this risk, and tougher regulation should be put in place,” he told H&H.
“We are wholly behind BE’s efforts to improve safety standards and wish the FEI would follow suit.”
An FEI spokesman told H&H they couldn’t say more until they had seen the BE review.
“We would be very interested to study it, but won’t be able to comment on the findings before that,” she said, but added that body protectors are expected to be reviewed as part of the FEI risk-management programme.
Jordan’s sister, Shannon Maas, said safety is extremely important to the family and that her brother “was not wearing substandard body protection”.
“He was wearing a Tipperary vest, which is a well-known North American brand,” she said. “My feeling is that the United States Eventing Association and Equine Canada should follow what BE has done and make the highest standard of body protector a requirement in their rulebook. Then all organisations should develop a method to assure that the rider’s body protector meets this standard prior to competition.”
Shandiss McDonald, Jordan’s wife, said they had “no idea” that the protector wasn’t approved in the UK.
Equine Canada rules state, similar to the FEI: “A body protective vest must be worn,” but doesn’t specify a standard.

Better checks?

Daisy Berkeley, the athlete representative on the FEI eventing committee, called for more vigilant checks from organisers and governing bodies.
“In Britain we are required to ride in a certain standard of body protector,” she said.
“But our body protectors are not tagged and checked consistently in the way our helmets are. Although we need to be responsible for our own safety, riders are not always the best at keeping up to date on improvements in standards. Spot checks when you pick up your numbers at the beginning of the season, and at random events, could improve awareness.”
Dr Whitlock added: “Although it would not be so easy to tag body protectors it wouldn’t be impossible, but it is up to organisers and BE to see if that’s feasible.”
Ref: H&H 22 May, 2015

Jess Phoenix says her airvest did not deploy;
http://eventingconnect.today/2015/05/21/jessica-phoenix-left-the-hospital-today-and-is-finally-home/

would it not have deployed eventually after the horse got up?

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;8160708]
Jess Phoenix says her airvest did not deploy;
http://eventingconnect.today/2015/05/21/jessica-phoenix-left-the-hospital-today-and-is-finally-home/

would it not have deployed eventually after the horse got up?[/QUOTE]

She said it was not a rotational fall. She said she rode the horse to the ground the the horse went one way and she the other. That is when the vest should have deployed, once she left the saddle. Again she states it never deployed.

[QUOTE=fooler;8160728]
She said it was not a rotational fall. She said she rode the horse to the ground the the horse went one way and she the other. That is when the vest should have deployed, once she left the saddle. Again she states it never deployed.[/QUOTE]

interesting indeed.

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;8149542]
It seems to me air vests are doing nothing anyways. Jess Phoenix had one and she broke her ribs and lacerated her liver among other things. Did the air vest cause this? Probably. Will we ever know? Probably not…because there is still no research. Seems like broken ribs and collapsed lungs are the norm in air vest accidents.[/QUOTE]

Whether or not one is in favour of air vests, we should probably be careful about making statements like this. Clearly, in this case, the air vest did not CAUSE the injury since it didn’t deploy and therefore wasn’t a factor.