I have an App mare that is cold backed when she feels like it. She comes off of injury a bit cold, I stick her in the round pen and let her get the stupid out and then she’s fine for a ride. Usually coming off of rest (month or two at a time due to injury or illness) she gets a bit crazy for 90 seconds a day. After 2 to 3 weeks she’s fine again. The only other time she acts weird is if she’s on a feed with corn, it’s like crack for her and she gets really hot and unpredictable. The corn induced issue is not a problem right now because I changed her feeding program. Tack does not change. If it’s an injury I spend a bit of time working her back in to moving slowly before riding. Is there a way I can avoid the 2-3 week bouts of her being cold backed?
I think there could be 2 things here, which are not related.
If she is out of work or in the realm of overfed and underworked that has nothing to do with being cold backed.
A horse should be brought back into work slowly and if in the realm of overfed and underworked it can take as long to get out of it as it took to get into it.
Corn is a very heating feed. Other feeds can be as well. This goes to their brain and again has nothing to do with being cold backed.
Being cold backed will vary differently between minor and major. It doesn’t happen for 2 weeks and then goes away. It happens always and varies on what the horse has done in the paddock before being worked.
How you tack up is key.
Groom saddle area. Place on saddle blanket and the loose girth, so there is maximum time to let their back warm up to the saddle. Continue to groom the rest of them. Pick out hooves. Put on boots. Detangle mane. Take debris out of tail. Place on bridle. All with slowly putting up the girth a hole on each side as you pass.
Then walk for at least a minute or 2 before going to the mounting block.
I will try the tack up method, Thank you!
When she’s not worked for a while I do reduce her feed to a maintenance level so she doesn’t gain weight or have more feed than she needs. She always gets back in to work slowly and doesn’t have any negative reaction to anything on the ground until there is a saddle on her back. Sometimes it’s immediate and she takes of crow hopping and bucking as soon as she’s off lead in the round pen, other times she waits until I ask her to lope. I realize she’s not truly a cold-backed horse, I’m just a bit confused by her behavior and don’t know what to call it.
If the issue is not pain related I think it is probably purely a (small) training issue. The horse just doesn’t know when it’s time for work and when its time for play. Obviously in this case the issue is very small and you only see it when the horse has been off work and has a little pent-up energy. I can get on my TB mare after 8 months of no work (when I’m away at University) and she is perfectly well behaved. A lot of horses will have some crazy moments after being out of work for a bit, although you’re right it is weird that it’s only for a couple minutes each ride and lasts for two weeks.
I would just get on and do the exercises you would do if your horse was acting up during a regular ride. Disengaging the hind end until the horse relaxes, then continuing with what you were doing is my kind of go-to.
As for the above suggestion of tacking up, I have never done this or heard of anyone else doing this and I doubt that the way you tack up is the problem if this craziness only appears after a lay-up. My horse used to be an absolute nut and I’ve fixed those problems with training, not my grooming and tack up.
Wether or not the horse is ‘cold-backed’, a slow, kind tacking up progression is always good in my view. Thoughtfulness to our horses is a simple way to increase trust and their happiness to work. I always follow SuzieQ’s method as a matter of course.
The only thing that seems logical (by horse standards) is that she may have learned that she acted like a fool and it got her out of heavy work for a while. It hasn’t worked for her again (neither has picking up a fake limp, that’s her go to), but she continues to do it. She’s trying the same tactics over and over, without any positive reaction from me. Will it just take her more time to come to terms with the fact that it no longer works, or is this just a new quirk I have to deal with?
She had gotten away with a lot of things in the past, she was adopted out twice and returned for behavioral issues once and she was being beaten the second time. She’s a very smart mare, too smart. Knows that faking a limp is a thing. Acted like she had ulcers for the longest time, even underwent some treatment for them, she was just being a brat. I know to triple check her when it comes to injuries and stuff, but this behavior is just kind of weird. We’ve been through this 4 times now with no improvement on her end and I’m not giving in to her antics. She acts stupid, I still get on.
my horse, who I have owned for eighteen yrs. and still ride has always been ‘cold backed’ and spooky. I use to get angry thinking he was just misbehaving - plus I was actually afraid of him . When I sold my other horse and didn’t have anything to ride - I decided to ride him ( I had kind of retired him since he wasn’t any fun!) I took my time lunging him slowly to get him fit enough to ride and then I took lessons - the first day he reacted to a noise and a slight bolt and spook, crow hop and then after that he was fine - I ride him 5 - 6 days a wk. I always slowly do up the girth while walking him and then I lunge him for a few mins at a trot ea. way and a canter. Sometimes I just walk him while I do up the girth and then get on. I had the Vet do accupunture on his back. I give him adequan once a month and an oral joint supplement. I ride in the ring and also on the trail. He really enjoys being ridden and all of the attention that he receives.
Horses do not lie. They do not fake lameness. There is also bridle lameness which appears lame but has nothing to do with their legs. It can be muscular that feels better after warming up. It could be a myriad of things. All need to be checked as well as saddle fit.
My new boy. The formed owner said he always bucks on the lunge. He has not bucked once on the lunge for me.
I did not have a problem until I used an equissage on him. So I did my above method with the equissage and then swapped to the saddle blanket and saddle.
WOW Rodeo bucking! Needless to say I don’t do that anymore.
He needs time to warm to the saddle and the girth. He doesn’t want to buck. Not enough time = rodeo bucks. Enough time = walks calmly. Just not enough time = he turns without walking forward, marking time on the spot and then walks forward.
This is a case of learning to listen to your horse.
This isn’t a consistent thing though. That’s where my confusion is. For 2 to 3 weeks she will act like a fool for a few seconds each direction and then she’s perfectly fine for me to hop on and go. After the 2 to 3 weeks I can pull her up, tack, and go. No silly business. It’s not a lameness issue, she has faked injury before, I’ve met many horses that do. They’re mostly lesson horses that I’ve encountered, but if you ask them to do more than they want, they limp, ride through it a minute or two and they’re fine. I worked with a horse for a long time that did this after he figured his old owner would get off when he did it. Sometimes it was at the beginning of the ride, but most times it was about half an hour in. Vet said there was absolutely nothing wrong with him.
Either way, I know it isn’t tack fit or bridle lameness. If it was, it wouldn’t be an intermittent issue. This is always a temporary problem with her.
“After the 2 to 3 weeks I can pull her up, tack, and go.” She is out of the overfed and underworked phase and is now ‘in work’.
[QUOTE=Happy_Appy;8809365]
This isn’t a consistent thing though. That’s where my confusion is. [/QUOTE]
Lameness issues can absolutely be intermittent; which may or may not be the cause of your horse’s “cold back”.
You state she has a history of illness and injury. What exactly has happened?
What you describe is textbook for things like arthritis-type changes or muscle stiffness. It takes them a few minutes to “warm up” and work through the pain and/or stiffness.
Certainly NOT a case of “faking it”!!!
You did not say the age of the horse, or her injury/illness history.
[QUOTE=Happy_Appy;8809365]
Either way, I know it isn’t tack fit or bridle lameness. If it was, it wouldn’t be an intermittent issue. This is always a temporary problem with her. [/QUOTE]
For reasons I explained above, it certainly CAN be some sort of lameness even if intermittent.
Are you 100% sure your saddle fits her? Especially if she is going in and out of work frequently, her body build can change whether she is in work or out of work.
Has she ever had any chiropractic issues? (Has she ever been checked?)
While it may simply be behavioral, you hint that she has a history of illness and injuries (which would be lovely if you can elaborate), I don’t like to assume behavioral until you can rule out any pain. It’s just not fair to the horse.
[QUOTE=Happy_Appy;8809365]
The only other time she acts weird is if she’s on a feed with corn, it’s like crack for her and she gets really hot and unpredictable. [/QUOTE]
Curious, is there a reason WHY she needs to be on corn, even when she is in work?
[QUOTE=Happy_Appy;8809365]
Acted like she had ulcers for the longest time, even underwent some treatment for them, she was just being a brat.[/QUOTE]
Curious here as well, what treatment did you try?
Not all treatments are equal, especially when dealing with gastric ulcers versus hindgut ulcers.
She strained a muscle in a hind leg, that’s the one she’s reinjured a couple times. Abscess in the hoof on one occasion. She was out for 2 months when we thought she had ulcers. She’s a 10 year old mare.
I would have suspected arthritis had it been the beginning of the ride and she had not been evaluated for it by the vet (negative for arthritis in all joints). It was middle of the ride, no changes in ground etc.
She has been adjusted while under my care, nothing major turned up, slight rotation on her hips, but not enough to impede her. My saddle 100% fits, I do not consider her rideable until she is back in performance condition. I do NOT pull her off of injury and hop on and ride. I give her a couple of weeks at least to get in shape to carry tack and a person before jumping back on her.
She is not on corn. I will not feed it to her.
One day out of the blue my mare decided to try and throw her saddle in the round pen, when I asked her to lope she went on a 2 minute crowhopping and bucking stint. I called the vet because she had never done anything like that before and when I checked her muscles and joints nothing was out of the ordinary. My vet had me treat the suspected ulcers with alfalfa and aloe for 2 weeks with no work. Then start working her lightly without tack for the next 2 weeks. At the month mark I was to saddle her and work her and she reacted badly to that so 2 more weeks of alfalfa and aloe with light work. I gave her an extra week and then saddled her again with the same reaction. I called the vet back out and my mare did the same thing with the saddle on. She had me run her through the bucking and she quit. Scoped her to be sure, no ulcers. That was behavioral. There was nothing wrong with her other than being a brat who decided she didn’t want to work. She’s healthy, just a brat.
Happy_Appy, it disturbs me to see you repeatedly claim that your horse is faking some kind of lameness or illness. I’ve been around horses for most of my life and I’ve never known or known of a horse that was “faking it.”
This kind of attitude is not indicative of good horsemanship.
[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8807679]
How you tack up is key.
Groom saddle area. Place on saddle blanket and the loose girth, so there is maximum time to let their back warm up to the saddle. Continue to groom the rest of them. Pick out hooves. Put on boots. Detangle mane. Take debris out of tail. Place on bridle. All with slowly putting up the girth a hole on each side as you pass.
Then walk for at least a minute or 2 before going to the mounting block.[/QUOTE]
absolutely. it is imperative for cold backed horses to loosen up first. my regime for our coldbacked horse is similar to above: groom/curry, brush - GENTLY place saddle pad and GENTLY place saddle (seriously, lots of people just toss the saddle up there), secure saddle, put girth on loosest holes (so you can fit a fist thru the girth and the horse). pick feet. put up one hole. brush mane. put up one hole. bridle. put up one hole - girth should still be loose enough that you can see daylight but no longer loose enough that something could catch in the girth.
hand walk down to ring, hand-walk 2 laps, bonus if you have walk poles. trot-in-hand one or two laps - you should be able to trot 2 laps without feeling like you’re dying. IME, this really helps the horse move out and warm up to the saddle.
walk to mounting block, gently roll girth up the remaining holes… never tighten or PULL the girth. you’re just rolling it up one or two holes. get on. walk a circle or two. recheck girth.
in my experience i have noticed a huge difference when i do that regime instead of just get on, crank girth, and go. the horse is usually quieter too and knows the routine.
personally i cannot imagine a tight girth is comfortable, so i do tend to ride with a fairly loose girth. not loose enough that the saddle slips and slides but not tight enough that the girth indents the barrel either.
i do not like lunging for a cold-backed horse, especially if they’re the type to demonstrate some serious bucking antics. IMHO it tends to exacerbate their friskiness. i’d prefer to trot/walk in hand for a warm-up over a lunge-line rodeo. half the time cold-backed horses are cold-backed because of SI issues, and lunging should be avoided for those types anyway.
as always, make sure the cold-backed issue isn’t a result of soreness somewhere: saddle fit or an old injury can make a horse cold backed.
I won’t get on the bandwagon about “faking” or “brat”, but I will talk about cold-backed: I, too, used to think it was all about training. But, my dd’s western pleasure horse is and was cold-backed. If he hadn’t been ridden in a few days, SuzieQ’s approach was critical. If he had been body clipped, take it slow. It clearly was a reaction to saddle/girth. He had the best of care, and is still a little cold-backed at 28 years old…
[QUOTE=NoSuchPerson;8811124]
Happy_Appy, it disturbs me to see you repeatedly claim that your horse is faking some kind of lameness or illness. I’ve been around horses for most of my life and I’ve never known or known of a horse that was “faking it.”
This kind of attitude is not indicative of good horsemanship.[/QUOTE]
I have been around several horses that do this, I’m really not trying to debate the issue. I evaluate when they display symptoms of lameness, but there are some that do it regularly and have absolutely nothing wrong with them. It can be learned just like any other behavioral issue. That’s my experience, I have my vet look at them too, she agrees.
[QUOTE=Happy_Appy;8811227]
I have been around several horses that do this, I’m really not trying to debate the issue. I evaluate when they display symptoms of lameness, but there are some that do it regularly and have absolutely nothing wrong with them. It can be learned just like any other behavioral issue. That’s my experience, I have my vet look at them too, she agrees.[/QUOTE]
horses don’t fake lamenesses. if your horse is limping, that is SOMETHING wrong with the horse. some horses are very incredibly stoic, which means that they only show subtle signs that they are uncomfortable and may otherwise seem like “they have nothing wrong with them”. any vet that agrees with you that a horse is deliberately faking a lameness to trick you is a fruit, at best.
Well when there is nothing wrong with the leg, no swelling, no heat, nothing on ultrasound or xray, I’m inclined to believe that the horse learned that a certain way of moving gets them time off.
[QUOTE=Happy_Appy;8811263]
Well when there is nothing wrong with the leg, no swelling, no heat, nothing on ultrasound or xray, I’m inclined to believe that the horse learned that a certain way of moving gets them time off.[/QUOTE]
k but you realize that certain pathologies can start somewhere else and have symptoms of lameness – there are various and sundry MALIGNANT issues that do not show up by heat or swelling… tons of things inside the hoof capsule you cannot see, and structures that cannot be measured or felt by your hands.
and if you’re using the same vet that thinks horses are faking it, it’s not a small wonder that they might miss something on an x-ray or ultrasound. not everything is going to be as obvious on film as it is in person.
i originally replied to this thread hoping my bit of experience might help you with your horse, but seeing your responses has me concerned for the horses in your care if your attitude is “he’s faking it”.
do you understand what type of complex thought process it requires to lie and be dishonest? horses don’t even have the part of the brain that is responsible for lying/dishonesty in humans (dorsolateral prefrontal cortex) so how do you imagine they are capable of guile?
[QUOTE=Happy_Appy;8810068]
She strained a muscle in a hind leg, that’s the one she’s reinjured a couple times. [/QUOTE]
I guess I am confused why you think she is “faking it” when she has had a previous injury? An old muscle injury can make a horse perpetually stiff and need some extra warming up for a few minutes.
Or, a certain movement can suddenly cause pain, and thus a reaction.
I twisted my left ankle 2 years ago when I fell coming off the lift while snowboarding. To this day, my ankle still does bother me with certain motions and certain things. I have to be careful with it. I also now have to wear a brace when I play volleyball, or it will feel like I’ve re-sprained it. Other types of exercise I don’t have to wear the brace, but possibly the extra jumping required in volleyball is what does it.
I see no difference why it wouldn’t be the same in horses. An old injury can still cause issues. It could possibly be your mare reacting to the old injury, if it still bothers her from time to time with certain motions, or needing extra time to warm up.
Possible it might not be, but I don’t think you can say with 100% certainty that it couldn’t potentially be bothering her.
[QUOTE=Happy_Appy;8810068]
I would have suspected arthritis had it been the beginning of the ride and she had not been evaluated for it by the vet (negative for arthritis in all joints). It was middle of the ride, no changes in ground etc. [/QUOTE]
Purely curious here, but how your vet determined a negativity for arthritis in all joints?
Has everything been x-rayed? Coffin joints? Ankles? Knees? Stifles? Hocks?
Has she ever flexed lame in any extremity?
Granted, I wouldn’t expect to have arthritis in a 10-year-old mare, but it can happen.
[QUOTE=Happy_Appy;8810068]
She is not on corn. I will not feed it to her. [/QUOTE]
You mentioned corn so that is why I asked about corn.
Can you be specific about her feeding and her diet?
[QUOTE=Happy_Appy;8810068]
One day out of the blue my mare decided to try and throw her saddle in the round pen, when I asked her to lope she went on a 2 minute crowhopping and bucking stint.
There was nothing wrong with her other than being a brat who decided she didn’t want to work. She’s healthy, just a brat. [/QUOTE]
Is it possible she could have (for example) been stung by a bee in the round pen? Or something to that effect?
That would be something that would elicit a sudden response, and possibly make her think that the saddle suddenly caused her pain.
In general, I never let a horse romp around in the round pen. In my mind, the round pen is not for the purpose of getting rid of excess energy. The round pen is to do a “mental check” for the horse and ensure they are listening to me.
They can buck and kick and act silly on the pasture on their own time. But not on my time.
So the fact that you allowed her to romp around for 2 minutes is showing her that acting up in the round pen is okay. You should have stopped her when the behavior started … even if she did have a bee sting her, or her hind leg injury re-bother her. You are enabling the “cold backed” behavior by allowing her to do it.
And if you don’t have control over your horse in the round pen … of course, that’s a hole that needs addressing. Good ground manners are good ground manners. If you have to put her back on a lunge line in the round pen to achieve that control, then so be it.
Don’t allow her to be cold backed and you may find she is no longer cold backed.
