Introducing new horses with mare and foal in turnout

[Foxygrl516]

I’m a little bit nervous about turning another horse out with my mare and foal and I’m hoping that you can calm my nerves. The foal was born May 5th, so he is about 7 weeks old. He is big for his age and has the independance that I would have expected from a much older foal. I expect that some of his independance probably comes from the fact that he and his mama have a field to themselves and he has never felt the need to cling to his mother for comfort or protection. On the same note, my mare is a great mother and keeps an eye on him all of the time, but doesn’t mind him grazing across the field from her. Again: no threat.

I have been getting the feeling that they are ready for a pasture buddy. Maybe my mare is craving a little bit of ‘adult interaction’ and the foal seems to be craving having someone else to play with. I do not have other foals. I have a yearling on the farm that I think will be a good friend for my little guy at some point, but he was weaned early and is highly dependant on his buddies. I don’t want him to get so attached to my foal and for my guy to have the same problem.

Before foaling I had my mare in her field with 2 other horses. I had her with them intentionally with the thought in mind that they would be good companions for the foal once he came. One is a 26yo TB gelding who is very passive and sweet. The other is a 13yo 12hh pony gelding that I teach on. My thought was that the pony might offer a good play mate for the foal, but isn’t so big that he would hurt him… ? My concern is that the pony might hurt the baby (he’s a sweet pony. loves to play in turnout…not sure if that’s good or bad… but is known for puffing up and arching his neck all stud-like. I dont’ know if I trust him). I can’t imagine the TB hurting the baby at all. But I kind of worry that my mare will feel threatened with another horse out with them and she might hurt the TB??? She is dominant everywhere, but she is a quiet and respected ruler, not a violent mean mare.

Basically I want to bubble wrap this foal for his entire life but I know I can’t. I also don’t want another horse getting hurt because of my mare (who has given me no reason to think she would hurt anyone. I just don’t know if having the baby to protect may change her). I do feel some urgency though, because when it is time to wean, I want the foal to be used to other horses and reasonably well adjusted. Friends will make that so much easier.

What should I do?

[silanac]

I had a similar turnout situation with my mare and colt…

are your two groups separated by just a fenceline, or is it two separate pastures?

Mine were separated by a fence, so they would often ‘visit’ with eachother before we put them all together officially. We put just our old TB gelding (who is in love with the mare) in with them in the small pasture first. we had the gelding and mare haltered on lead ropes first, letting everyone sniff and get their squeals out before we let them ‘free’. we left the colt free to investigate as he pleased.

Ours were easy and non chalant being haltered, so we quickly took them off halters and let them free in our small 1 acre field. the first day we sat with them for about an hour before leaving them be, then checked on them several times throughout the day. we were most worried of the TB running off the foal from his momma since the TB loves her so much. But the mare was pretty cool with it all, and did not let the TB mess with her baby. She will get inbetween the two of them when she is not comfortable with the situation and turn the baby away from the gelding when she needs to. None of them ever tried anything bad. At one point the colt was nursing while the TB sniffed her butt-poor girl just stood there and didnt move, but she did have a look on her face like ‘really? youre doing this to me?’

After a few days with the 3 of them together, we let our mini pony in with them. the mare never liked him, always runs him off but he takes it well. it didnt change, but she is never dangerous or super aggressive towards him. She makes sure the colt doesnt get too close to him but thats about it.

Now the colt is 3 months old and the 4 of them are out in about 4 acres together. theyre all fine. they sometimes run together but never get crazy. The TB, mare and foal even hang out and nap in the foaling stall together (its open to their pasture).

we waited until our colt is 8 weeks old before we started integrating the herd.

I would first start with everyone on a lead rope and let them sniff, just to see what kind of dynamic there may be with the new proximity before letting them roam free in a paddock together. Then go from there. The mare will let you know what she is comfortable with. if you sense her being to stressed or overwhelmed, then take a step back. I would start with introducing just one of the others, maybe the old gelding or whoever she seemed to like more before she had her foal.

good luck!

[MuskokaLakesConnemaras]

I have my one week old out with a 3.5 week old with their mamas. They all knew eachother prior and got to play sniffy over the fence before getting put together. Zero issues.

[bingbingbing]

I would not put the pony out with the foal if he is one to puff up. Mom won’t like that. As for the older gelding, maybe. He will be the one at risk or the foal if he gets caught in the middle of mom protecting. You know your horses best. Can you put the older guy over a fence line to start. If there is doubt, don’t do it, it’s not worth the risk.
And don’t worry, when weaning comes, the foal will be thrilled to have any kind of company. I do gradual weaning over a fence line. SO much less stressful.

[OverandOnward]

scroll way down - very sad heads up

http://www.faculty.english.ttu.edu/Rickly/starbaby.htm

[runwayz]

Wow… I swear as much as we want them to be “horses”, sometimes we must be the ones to go against nature. This happens in the wild too, and it can happen with our beloved “safe” horses too. I never put my gelding out with my mare and foal. Period.

[springer]

Wow is right! I had been tossing around the idea of turning my 4 yr old mare out with my other mare and her 2 month old filly. But after reading that story… no way!

[Foxygrl516]

Wow, that is so sad!!! Well, I read the first couple of replies and then yesterday morning I introduced the old gelding back to my mare, with halters on. I put the gelding in the field and then put the mare and foal out with him. The mare and gelding didn’t acknowledge each other at all. The baby was very interested in the new guy and wandered over to sniff him. When the baby went up to the gelding, the old man froze and was so careful not to move or startle him. Mama walked over and got between them and herded baby away and that was that. They grazed happily all day yesterday, usually on different sides of the field from each other.

I saw the post with the horrible story about 4 hrs after I had turned them out. What a horrible story. if I had seen it before I turned out, I likely would have kept my little guy isolated his whole life. I’m sure that vawful scenario is the exception and not the rule. But it just goes to show that u just never know…

[Wayside]

@Foxygrl516;6394269

They grazed happily all day yesterday, usually on different sides of the field from each other.

Glad it went well for you!

That savaged foal story was very sad, but on the flip side, turning my mare and filly out with my old gelding, Gem, was one of the best decisions I ever made.

Gem was already 25 when my youngest mare was born. He was one of those super intelligent little Arabs that was completely in your pocket, and had a huge sense of humor, and a larger-than-life personality. He was very special to me and I couldn’t imagine having a horse that was more fun to be around than Gem.

My older mare lived with Gem up until I took her to a good friend of mine (who is also a professional breeder who foals mares out as part of her business) to foal out. Gem was very submissive with other horses, and always aoided conflict, so I brought my mare and filly home when she was two weeks old, and they all went out together.

From the first moment, my little filly was completely enthralled by Gem. Wanted to follow him everywhere, much to my mare’s dismay at first (poor Gem would run away the seond mama mare even looked at him sideways), but it didn’t take long for my mare to figure out that Gem wasn’t a threat.

When my filly, Ilen, was weaned, I left her with Gem. She called once or twice when her mom left, but other than that, she couldn’t have cared less.

Gem was not only a great companion for her, but he was also a great teacher. He was great at loading, and she would follow him on the trailer in a heartbeat. When the neighbors set off fireworks, he’d trot over to watch them in his usual nosy manner, and she’d follow along and mimic him.

Gem passed away suddenly when Ilen was a yearling. I was devastated, and so was she. I can still reember sobbing as I watched her her standing over his still body, licking it and nudging it.

A year doesn’t seem like much time to make a huge impression, but Ilen was so fascinated by him that he did make a huge impression on her. Enough of one that she picked up a great many of his habits. People used to ask me if she got her mother’s personality or her father’s, and I’d always tell them “Neither. She got my gelding’s personality.” :lol:

Her mother is a nice mare, but very aloof and businesslike. Ilen is totally into spending time with people, loves being brushed, bold, curious, nosy, everything that Gem was. She even cocks her head and wrinkles her eye in the exact same strange way that Gem did when you brush the inside of her ear with a stiff brush - something none of my other horses enjoyed at all.

I love Ilen for herself as well, but I’m so glad that so much of what I loved about Gem lives on in her as well. It was the best gift that old man could ever have given me, and I’m so glad that my little filly had the opportuity to learn to see the world the way that Gem did.

[Chestnut_Run]

We’ve had 2 foals each year for the last 3 years. We turn our mares and foals out once the foals are about a week old with the entire herd. Our herd consists of about 15 horses total–geldings, mares with foals, pregnant mares, un-pregnant mares, and the occasional sales horse (isolated first then put in the herd). We haven’t had any problems with any of them. Our foals are well adjusted, and happy and very knowledgeable of horse body language. When I’ve put a new horse (for example when I get a project horse in) in with the herd, the herd boss, a gelding, and the lead mare, generally close ranks with the momma-mares and put the babies in the middle of their little group until the pecking order is established. I like everyone together cause the babies get to play, the mommas get a bit of a break when they want, and weaning is basically a non-issue since the babies are already part of the herd. To wean, we take the mares out until their milk dries up and then they go back out into the herd. They pal around with their babies until the next years babies are born.

I know lots of people say never turn a mare and foal out with a gelding, but we truly haven’t had any problems. I would say know your horses, but, as you found out, if your mare was buddies with him/her before the foal, they’ll set the boundaries of how close to the foal the other horse is allowed and it should all work out.

Sheila

[JB]

I turned my mare and foal out with TWO other geldings, boys she had been living with for years. I did it one at a time, the most laid back one first, then the other one. they were both much more interested in the reunion with the mare than any attention to the foal.

Everyone has a horror story about a given scenario and warns not to do that. Some of things that are just stupid, some are freak accidents, and some are things that you could never predict or prevent.

People here have had other mares kill a foal - should foals not be turned out with other mares? Now with no other geldings?

[silanac]

wow what a horrific story. but i think there were several issues with how the person went about integrating her herd, IMO.

i think as long as you take things slow, gradually increase proximity and make sure that everything/everyone is ok before moving to the next step, things will work out for the most part. Of course you always want to keep a watchful eye, but horses are herd horses naturally. and i think that, in general, their ancient history of being herd bound and natural instincts as such kick in. I would be hesitant to isolate my foal and mare completely until weaning, the foal just wouldnt get that social interaction that is really needed to develop a naturally good and social brain. And if you don’t have other mares and foals to integrate them with, your old guys in the backyard are the next best thing. but JB is right, ANY horse, mare or gelding, is capable of doing what the horse did. if they truly are threatened and that determined, it is not gender discriminatory.

[okggo]

Know your horses, and be willing to alter your plans! We have always turned foals out with others eventually. They share fence lines, and we have a mare and gelding that have been with foals every year. The gelding is my test magnet for every horse, I love him to death, and he is incredibly herd smart. This year I had him out with the one mare/foal and she was being a totally evil B toward him, so it told me she just wasn’t ready. Her and foal are solo for now. It’s odd because she always has doted over my gelding, but she is very protective of her baby right now, so I will respect that and she can have some space where she can see the others but doesn’t have to keep them away as the fence does that. When she stops worrying so much and lets the baby wonder and hang out, I’ll reintroduce.

He’s out with another mare and foal and it’s just as I’d like - he plays with the foal and keeps the mare company. They all get along great. They share a fenceline with our babysitter mare, and I’ve seen the mama and gelding leave the foal sleeping at the fenceline with the other mare on guard duty from the other side. But I KNOW this gelding, I know him very well, and he has raised foals since he was a foal. I know the others as well, if they have been with babies or not, and how they react to them as well as to angry faces from mama.

I worry more about the mares getting protective and kicking the baby by accident. You can often tell when they are getting a bit sick of their kids and less possessive of them. Know your horses, and be prepared to change plans if needed.

[starrunner]

I also think it depends a bit of size of the turnout as well. In smaller turnouts, I think it’s much easier for the horses to get cranky and someone to get hurt.

Worse behaviors I’ve seen personally have been from maiden mares towards foals, so who knows… A lot of the geldings have always been like “Fantastic! Someone else to play bitey face with!”

[JB]

[QUOTE=starrunner;6398216]
A lot of the geldings have always been like “Fantastic! Someone else to play bitey face with!” :)[/QUOTE]

:lol::lol::lol::yes::yes::yes:

My boys were DELIGHTED to stand there and play Face Fight with my little guy!

[Foxygrl516]

I think you guys are all right and that is exactly the kind of thing I needed to hear.

I had the gelding out with them saturday and sunday this weekend and they seemed to do well. I saw the mare chase the gelding a time or 2, but I think it’s because the baby got curious and got “too close” to him (he was a saint about it) and momma decided to chase the old guy away to keep baby ‘safe’. I chickened out though… Sunday night baby came in with a half-circle (mouth?) shape on his face right above his left eye. Didn’t break the skin, but took all of the hair off and it’s obviously not where his baby coat is shedding. It was most likely his mama that inflicted the bite, but it makes me SO nervous! I can’t stand the thought of him getting hurt. If the big horse had bit him harder, he could have gotten hurt. I haven’t turned them out together again since Sunday.

I know I"m being a weeny… Sigh… I wish I could just bubble wrap this baby!!!

[JB]

Mama chasing the gelding away because he gets too close - intentionally or not - is normal and IMHO a good thing She’ll settle about it after a while.

FWIW, I brought mom/baby into their own paddock, free choice access to the barn, for the first several nights after they had been in with the geldings during the day.

[purplnurpl]

Our neighbor told us a story of the last residence of our farmette. She had a baby and then went and bought a stud colt and for some reason turned them all out together.
The stud colt chased down the baby and broke it’s neck.

As for us. We have the mare/foal, my mom’s gelding and mini donkey.
They all stay together and the foal and gelding are best buds.

She dumped her mom the day we turned them out together.

For the 6 weeks prior to herd turnout they we all in stalls/pens next to each other so they were all able to visit and no one ever caused any issues over the fence line.

Then the first time the baby walked close to Toby he was tied to the fence line and he stood there extra still and really paid very little attention to her sniffing his belly.

When we first turned them out together we kept a very close eye and it was clear that momma was also keeping a close eye and for the first few days she always placed herself between her kid and Toby and if the kiddo would wonder over to the donkey or Toby momma would fetch her right away.

So all went well for us.

[purplnurpl]

[QUOTE=Foxygrl516;6398422]
Sunday night baby came in with a half-circle (mouth?) shape on his face right above his left eye. Didn’t break the skin, but took all of the hair off and it’s obviously not where his baby coat is shedding. It was most likely his mama that inflicted the bite, but it makes me SO nervous! [/QUOTE]

ya that would make me nervous as well.
Luckily with out herd every horse BUT the baby is a little scratched up.
The kid rules the herd on Fortnight Ranch.

When the others don’t play with her she turns around and goes to kicking the crap out of the chosen “party pooper”.

[silanac]

our mare and foal were only out during the day for the first 5-6 weeks of being all together. they stayed in their stalls at night. this is their first week being out at night, so far so good.

babies will get cut. babies will get knicked. they hit themselves with their feet, rub up against branches and trees, and get their heads through fences and then bonk themselves. it goes with the territory of being clumsy, young and curious. and getting bit by mama or anyone else for not knowing their place is a good thing, IMO. they have to learn, you can’t bubble wrap them forever.