Can’t get event entries to come up. Really wanted to see how many survived Xc… They removed one small fence to change it from a championship course to ‘moderate for horses with some experience’ and the OT at least was a bloodbath…
Jennifer
Dang it, the site is definitely not loading.
Were there falls? Hope everyone is ok!
I saw one rider fall and one horse that trod on the clip of its shoe after sliding into the jump before the water (possibly too distracted/spooked by the fountain adjacent to the water jump that he didn’t see the log until it was too late!). But don’t believe anyone was hurt. Last I heard there was one clear round in OT… Lots of multiple stops.
15 out of 23 jumping efforts were visible from the field containing the water complex (you had to make 3 loops around that field, two to the left, one to the right), and it was beautiful and decorative with flowers and carved totems and a fountain! so it was very spectator friendly. Out of 23 jumping efforts 8 were straightforward ‘non questions’ (and I’m including fence 1 as a non-question, even though it had at least 2 stops–it was just a u-shaped log over a raised base, with flowers and painted carvings). It was an absolutely outstanding example of modern course design.
Jennifer
I just spoke w Rick. Should be reset now
Yep, one OT horse (5 years experience at Training with multiple riders) got around with no stops. One other horse (years of prelim and 1* with that rider!) finished with one stop. Of the horses that were Eliminated most had sufficient experience for a course of ‘moderate difficulty’.
Jennifer
Someone educate me. Are the time penalties in Phase C usually for going too fast or too slow?
ACME - too slow.
Were you being tongue in cheek with “an excellent example of modern course design.”???
Absolutely serious. Now ask me how I feel about modern course design.
This was my rider’s 4th recognized event and she piloted two horses around the 3 day course double clear. She’s a good rider, (recently moved over from jumper land) very self-aware, and we walked the course very carefully considering all the what if’s we could think of.
At first looking at the loops in the front field I was a bit dismayed, but I found after one walk I could easily picture the flow of fences and terrain as the turns followed naturally from the fences. On endurance day it was awfully nice to be able to dart out from the 10 minute box and see a lot of the action while still being ready to help in the vet box after. So my perspective differs. 
I came off both my initial course walk and the end of endurance day understanding why Tremaine Cooper is a popular designer. The course certainly asked a lot of questions (can you ride on terrain, can you steer, can you ride forward with balance, do you have basic confidence and education about ditches, water and banks) but you didn’t have to do anything fancy to answer the questions. It was definitely not a pull pull gallop, pull and turn course, just a “hold your rhythm and balance as you go around” course.
Delighted there was such a good turnout this year, and definitely planning to encourage folks to aim for it next year - and I’ll try not to break my rib a few days out and have to rely on someone taking over the ride! (To be fair, I had lent her my horse for two qualifying events so she had ridden him in a couple shows.)
So do you think removing the one fence made it ‘moderate difficulty’ instead of ‘championship’? And if not why the carnage in the HT?
Jennifer
Sorry to be obtuse but what Championship are you all talking about? I was going to ask about all the rider falls and TEs at the Area III championships at Poplar Place (10 RF & 7 TE). If this thread is about a different HT then the week-end sounds like it was pretty tough for a lot of folks.
Wow, just pulled up the results. That does appear to have been a bit chaotic. Would love to hear more from people who were there.
Both courses flowed well
I realize the focus is on the Training Level, but I really like what Jeannette said about the course(s) as a whole. I rode the BN level 3D and the course was maxed all the way around in jump size, but the questions were much more than I’ve experienced at BN.
Overall the course really did flow. We were challenged visually at times (some horses did not like the second fence with a big black Eagle carved on the left, mine had never seen sapphire water before), there were a number of big brush jumps and downhill fences that really required you to balance up. One fence was a strong up hill with no flat spot before the jump point. You had to ride it up hill all they way through to landing and that is not anything I’ve experienced before (it was way cool to ride). My favorite was a bank up three stride to a roll top. Not a normal question at BN. Even though I had moved up to Novice this year and rode a tough N at FENCE, this BN course looked all of Novice, taken as a whole (two combination questions? Cool).
Sterling and I plan to be back next year, maybe at Novice if I can get some more HT under my belt, but as we are going to AECs (BN) I may have to ride BN since I can’t afford everything (sigh).
Tlw–
We are talking about the Heart of the Carolinas 3-day event and HT… According to the Omnibus, the 3-day courses were to be championship caliber, (which they were, most of the riders I spoke to felt the Training course was 3’3" Prelim questions), while the HT courses were to be of moderate difficulty for horses with some experience at the level. I didn’t walk BN or N, but they removed ONE fence from the 3day course for the HT, resulting in the elimination of 7 out of 9 entries in the OT HT.
Jennifer
I rode the T3D there successfully last year, and was there this year helping friends in the 10 min box. I was out on course spectating and saw all of the training horse trials entries. The course had very few changes between last year and this year, FYI.
First of all, this is an absolutely fantastic event, well run, well presented, spectator and competitor friendly, I just can’t say enough good things about it and I’m thrilled to see how much competitors get out of the long format at all three levels offered (BN, N, and T). I also went to the T3D in KY last year and thought the KY course was overall bigger but also more open and gallopy, for what that’s worth (I didn’t get to the ride the course because of a temporary soundness issue that came up after steeplechase practice and dressage, but I walked the course three times thinking I was going to be riding it the next day). So8s IS technical with a lot of fun variety and some max fences but not all of them.
Frankly, everyone watching in my area when the training horse trials division went was a bit bewildered by all the problems. Problems with many of the rides were evident early on, they didn’t just come up at the water, for example. There were problems spread around at a number of different fences, it wasn’t all just one. After giving it a good bit of thought, my theory is that there was a snowball effect going on. When the first rider (the OP was eliminated) her issues were being announced and heard as the other riders were in warmup.
The gray that got around with one stop was on course soon thereafter or the same time, and the announcer made a mistake and announced that she had had multiple stops and was eliminated. Not true, just a mixup in the heat of the moment. I know this pair, and they are just coming back off a rider injury and perhaps a bit rusty, their only stop was at the jump approaching water and would have been easily prevented IMHO by giving the horse a couple more strides to see the question on the approach. As seasoned prelim pair, I understand the rider’s decision not to take a wider turn. Only one rider in the division gave their horse a length approach to that fence, and that rider went clean. Everyone else took a short approach and the horses wanted more time to assess things.
I met the gentleman who had the fall, and he very much attributed the fall to the fact that he leaned a bit which makes his horse stop, and when the horse stopped the rider went a bit off balance to the left and his airvest went off. He said he is quite sure he would have stayed on if the inflated vest had not prevented him from righting himself as he normally would have. From where I stood, I agree with his self-assessment on all counts. His horse looked like a very safe, honest, seasoned ride.
The other riders I saw were having problems at the earlier fences and just looked green or backed off. I wasn’t seeing smooth, positive, consistent rides and I suspect hearing all the early problems that happened (and the ones that were misreported) may have had an effect on their mental game. Hence my theory that what we saw was a snowball effect as they heard announcements and saw horses being walked in.
Nine horses in the T3D got around with no issues this year, so it was a rideable course for experienced horses. I was surprised that there were not more differences between the T3D and T horse trials course, I had expected that the designer might sub in some of the novice fences to soften it a bit. That said, it was not a move-up course nor was it advertised as such per the omnibus quote above.
I looked up the OPs horse’s record after reading this thread, as I remember the cute stallion from a Lucinda Green clinic. Is it true that this is the horse’s second recognized event, and his first recognized training? I can see why he found it a bit much and hope his next outing is smoother.
The people that I met that put on So8s last year and this year are wonderful and I’m sure they are trying to figure out what happened in the horse trials division and how to make things smoother next year. I hope the training results don’t put a damper on their offering horse trials in the future. It’s fantastic facility and a fun weekend and I hope they keep making it possible for eventers to compete there.
Yes, this was my horse’s first recognized Training, but he spent last year and a half running Training at about every schooling HT available, including numerous clean runs at CHP, schooling a great deal, and was NCDCTA HOY at Training. He is quite capable of jumping a ‘moderate difficulty’ Training course. He has never had a stop at a fence in competition until the fountain Saturday which understandably rattled him (I’m not even sure WHERE you would go to acclimate a horse to that!). Even though I was pretty pleased with him as I think he was one of the few horses in the division that even GOT to the sunken road at the end of the course (which he only stopped at (and then jumped) because he was, not surprisingly, very suspicious by this point!), I would not have taken him to that event if the difficulty level had been correctly represented (as in, taking one tiny fence off a ‘championship’ course does not make it ‘moderate difficulty’). The “hollow” at 3 and 4 was definitely a Prelim question (I’ve jumped several similar questions on my Intermediate horses when they were running Prelim), have NEVER seen anything like it at Training, and even at Prelim they put it more toward the middle of the course, not right at the beginning. But he jumped it and even though it was not pretty he learned from it and was then quite good (other than being strong and enthusiastic!) until the water where he was completely flummoxed by the fountain.
Jennifer
But you walked the course, right? I’m assuming there were Rider Reps - did anyone approach them about the potential problems with the course?
The removal of fences from the three day courses were to make them in line with the rules of number of efforts allowed in a horse trial course, I guess I don’t read the omnibus as closely as some and rely on word of mouth about courses and wouldn’t expect a different course from the 3day course IMHO
Offhand I’m thinking of 4 descriptions of difficulty I’ve seen in the Omnibus. From easiest to hardest, they are , good move-up course (or early season course), “Average, for horses w some experience at level,” “moderate difficulty for horses w experience at level” and “championship.”
Out of context "moderate difficulty" could mean several things, from not so difficult to pretty darn difficult. In context, I'd expect lots of questions, ( a la Southern 8ths) or everything built full size, w definite questions, a la the Fork. The water to water question is the one I think of as a Prelim question, but it wasn't a big log and it was built w the first jump as a sort of placing rail so it could ride like a gymnastic, so yes, I think removing that turned the course from Championship to moderate difficulty.
The one place on course my rider had a problem was where they lost their rhythm (tempo). She has been working on helping the horses keep flowing forward in appropriate balance, not sacrificing one for the other, and this weekend definitely helped confirm what she has been learning!
Sorry you had a rough go. I didn’t get to watch the horse trials horses to form my own opinion, but Badger has a good eye and brain, and I bet she’s onto something with the snowball effect magnifying any holes in pairs’ readiness.
