Quite frankly, it is not unusual that judges never receive a prize list, (even when you ask for one) just a time schedule. Many shows do not even print prize lists any more. An experienced judge will usually ask for clarification of the specs, but often no one in management even knows for those lower end divisions.
The first description is from the A shows in our area, the second description is from the B circuit. They are run and judged as a regular hunter class. The maximum height at the A show is 2’, the B shows run it at 21". Both are for kids 12 and under.
Short StirrupThis division is intended as an introduction to horse showing for children not ready for the regular pony and hunter divisions.
Riders in this division may only cross enter into the Walk Trot and/or Equitation on the flat classes. Riders may not show in any other classes that requires them to jump. Riders must enter and complete at least one over fences class in the division to be eligible to compete in the Under Saddle Class.
Ponies or horses may enter. Suitability is a factor. Horses or ponies may show in other classes with a different rider.
Short Stirrup Division: Fences not to exceed 21"
Open to “C” riders. Fences will not exceed 21 inches and the course will be comprised of a maximum of eight fences. Course to consist of verticals only, no oxers. Short stirrup riders may not enter any other classes except for “C” Equitation on the flat and My First Medal. Open to both horses and ponies, but lines (distances) will not be adjusted. Ideally, horse and rider combination are able to ride all lines with the same consistency in rhythm and pace. In the event that a Short Stirrup rider has two mounts, the second mount must be jogged and flatted by another rider who is eligible for the Short Stirrup division. Attire as per Equestrian Canada Article G109.
Last night the shortie lesson went before mine so I watched them jump at the end. One of the girls had a couple awful jumps and then had an “aha!” moment and figured out that with more pace it was easier, she nailed every jump after that. The other girl was twisting so the pony was missing his changes. The coach took a quick video to show her what she was doing, she too went “aha!” and didn’t miss a change after that. These kids aren’t beginners jumping cross rails. They’re doing a year or two in the shorties, learning how to put in correct hunter trips before they move up to the section ponies.
In our area, the short stirrup equitation specifies the course may be trotted or cantered. It used to be x-rails just around the edge in one direction, but has changed so now it is usually 8 18 inch fences, usually verticles, with two changes of directions, and may (or may not) have a bending line or a rollback. The short stirrup hunter does not specify if it should be trotted or cantered, but most canter it. IThe whole short stirrup division that is only for those 12 or under, and those who have never shown higher than 18 inches. Some kids do flying changes, some do simple.
I find in teaching kids leads, it is harder to teach a kid to pay attention to its lead on a pony with an auto–the kids that ride those ponies tend to take longer to learn to pay attention to the lead they are on. The kids that have to do a change, be it simple or otherwise, tend to come along much better in their learning. I have had both types in my school program. While I like my school horses to know their changes, I don’t love the auto changer because the kids don’t learn to ask on them.
I don’t have a problem with no penalizing simple changes in this level of showing.
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I doubt anyone has much of a problem with simple changes in these classes and perhaps some other entry level classes as well. But it is best if the judging criteria is spelled out for the judges. And if it isn’t , best for the judge to ask management what is customary in that region. If no criteria are in print anywhere it is usually a good idea to discuss your plan with management and come to a mutual agreement of what would be the best for exhibitors. Then make your decisions very public for the exhibitors.
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It’s interesting to read about the different ways in which the same class is run in different areas. In my area, most USEF shows have an opportunity or outreach ring which has mini-stirrup equitation and mini-stirrup hunter (10 & under), short stirrup equitation and short stirrup hunter (12 & under), and beginner rider and beginner hunter classes (no age limit but still basically crossrails or tiny verticals).
Because of the explosion of the mini-stirrup classes, many of the kids in short stirrup have been showing for a couple of years. Mini-stirrup classes usually just have four crossrails. Short stirrup classes usually have a genuine simple course. I’ve often seen them step up the game and do low verticals with filler for the short stirrup hunter classes. The short stirrup classes are often even more competitive and more complex than the beginner rider classes, which are usually kids (and adults) who started later in life. Oh, and they just introduced an outreach modified rider division, with fences at 2’3 without an age limit. Because horse shows don’t run long enough!
The short stirrup classes can be a really mixed bag because you can have tiny kids on ponies and kids who are really 13 but their “show age” is technically 12 and they look old enough to be in high school. From my observations (I don’t have children so I have zero stake in this), it’s not so much a lead change issue but just the general fact that kids with their own ponies who are very well-trained, aren’t schoolies, and likely have more experienced people to give the ponies a tune up are more likely to win than kids on schoolies who don’t necessarily have people on them sorting out the habits that we all know schoolies can pick up like breaking, crookedness, and so forth.
I will also say that I’ve seen a few kids who are good riders just get by in these lower-level classes and then when they get older their parents decide to spring for a nicer lease horse (not even super-fancy, just not a schoolie) and how they did in the beginner divisions doesn’t hold them back.
Most judges I’ve heard talk about the criteria they use for these classes have said that safety, steering, not stopping, and not breaking are their primary concerns.
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Wow, 21 inches and under? Cross rails? Very interesting to see the differences by area.
Local organization rules in CO:
Fences not to exceed 2’3"
No in and outs. No Oxers.
The same horse/rider combination may not cross enter into any other CHJA classes or divisions at the same show except Stirrup Equitation, Under Saddle and Flat classes and the Stirrup Medal.
CHJA Short Stirrup Hunters open to riders 11 and under
CHJA Medium Stirrup Hunters open to riders 12-17
CHJA Long Stirrup Hunters open to amateur riders 18 and over
Specs pulled from rated show which held stirrup classes: (note zone 8 doesn’t have written specs for stirrup divisions, only Stirrup Cup finals)
SHORT STIRRUP HUNTER. CHJA RATED. Open to horses or ponies ridden by a Junior rider 11 years and under. Riders may not cross enter into any section or class exceeding 2’6" or any rated division or class at the same show with the exception of age group, maiden, novice, or limit equitation. Fences not to exceed 2’3". No combinations. (note it doesn’t exclude oxers here, despite reference to CHJA rating)
LONG STIRRUP HUNTER. Open to riders 12-17 who have never competed in a class over fences 3’ in height and who have never won a 3’ or higher medal class at a USEF or CHJA show. Horses and ponies are eligible. Riders in this section may not show in any other classes at this show with fences 3’ or higher (with exception of the USEF pony medal class and the Large Pony Hunter section). This division is not open to riders who have won a championship in any “A” rated pony section. Fences not to exceed 2’3". No combinations.
RUSTY STIRRUP HUNTER. Open to riders 18 & over who have never competed in a class over fences exceeding 3’ in height and who have never won a 3’ or higher medal class at a USEF or CHJA show. Riders in this division may not show in any other class at this show with fences 3’ or higher. Fences not to exceed 2’3". No combinations.
Red text added because I find the restrictions very interesting (maybe unfair?), especially considering the short/long/rusty is often run as a single combined division due to low numbers. It keeps the SS riders from cross entering on a pony hunter, even if the jumps are small. But the long/rusty riders can jump in another division below 3’ and can even jump 3’ in the Large Ponies for the LS riders, so long as they haven’t been champion in the ponies yet.
See Chunky Monkeys post #18.
Again, in my area, SS is a regular Hunter class, often offered at the USE rated shows even though its not nationally or zone recognized, think it’s 11&under and they can’t have shown in the next division up, but we have all sorts of local show Novice, Beginner stuff at 2’-2’3", with inside/outside courses where trotting is not penalized. I absolutely think if SS is conducted as a regular Hunter class, the kids should be getting their changes on a mount suitable for them and that level of showing. After all, the 11&under age group Eq and Children’s Pony kids are expected to get the leads.
Oh, my zone doesn’t track SS points. Most of the state and regional clubs do and their rules vary but they are all inside/outside courses with any break in gait penalized. I think there’s one that leaves penalizing simple changes to the judges discretion but they better be clean simples and the kid who has the changes will pin higher, as they should in a Hunter class with a regular course.
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While I agree that the auto change does little to advance the rider’s education, it sure does guarantee the horse a better chance at longterm employment. And that’s not a bad thing for those unfancy, odd size, limited in scope and stride horses and ponies who were lucky to be born with an auto change.
I’ve had two horses in my career who came out of the womb with an auto change. Both of them literally offered the change completely naturally as barely broke 3yo’s the very first time I cantered them across the ring. Both of them are 15 handers with some sort of stock breed in them, one is even a blanket appy, but neither is even slightly fancy. But they both had solid, useful show careers before age inevitably required them to drop down to short stirrup.
In their 20’s now, they both have cushy jobs and are cherished for their roles, and they will never be tossed aside because their talent is GOLDEN in the short stirrup ring. They are probably worth the same amount of money or more now, despite their age, than when I sold them at the peak of their show careers. But they will never be sold now, because trainers know how hard they are to replace and every season a new SS rider will be begging for the opportunity to lease the saint.
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FWIW - I have never seen an “around the outside” class. Ever. I’ve heard about them on this board, but that is all. Crossrails, 2’ even classes “poles” courses are all a typical hunter course. I appreciate it because you are never too young to start learning courses.
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It’s pretty typical around here to have cross rails offered in two formats, twice around and with a regular course. The shows I managed had the cross rails as a regular, albeit, simple course bc I felt the same way as you.
Realize this might ruffle some feathers and I do have a fire extinguisher handy but…
I see a tie in here with the Prudent and Bass threads. If a rider and/or their mount do not understand flying changes/ cannot do them ? Should the trainer put them in a division where they are expected or just say no, they aren’t ready yet to the parent (or Novice Adult)?
Not in Zone 3. Our Short Stirrup classes are two foot and are typical Hunter courses. There is even a equitation that is a bit more challenging. Even at the C shows here in NC, Short Stirrup is done in the same way like Children’s Pony. I have rarely seen the “twice around the outside” classes.
OTOH, I think there’s a legitimate reason to not require the lead change by a rider that can’t produce it at the top.
That’s because many of the “auto-change” horses are so smooth and automatic that the rider can’t feel or control what happened. I have known a few of these horses who, as they aged and got less sound, would want to jump off of just one lead. And, with the autochange so drilled into them, these guys would swap leads a stride or so out from a fence. That’s a hard problem to fix and it’s hard to learn to equitate on that quirk.
In short, rewarding the lead change that’s not produced by the rider really means you are rewarding the horse who has been trained to do that…whether or not that’s the best animal for the rider at the first stages of the sport and his education.
Oh, and it makes the pricetag and soundness of that SS horse go up. That’s too bad because there are so many horse who can fill every other part of that job requirement and thereby extend his useful life and earn the good care that show horses tend to get. Raise the bar too high for these oldsters, and a lot of them fall through the cracks.
Nice point! We do agree on the value of a horse with an easy lead change. I’m old enough to remember when a lead change was not to be taken for granted in even a very nice horse. And learning to get one was an accomplishment for a junior rider.
As someone who judges shows at this level regularly (in my area, “Short/Long Stirrup” = 2’ fences with no oxers, but typical hunter course format), I tend to pin clean flying change>simple>disunited change>no change. The simple reason for this is that the flying change doesn’t disrupt the flow of the course the way that even the best simple change will. HOWEVER, a horse with “auto” changes who charges/weaves/is otherwise unsuitable for the division will place below the solid, consistent, older campaigner who needs to do simple changes on my card every day of the week. It’s all relative!
When I was growing up, SS classes ranged from crossrails to little solid fences, but it was always twice around the outside for the course. You didn’t get to do the diagonal lines until you moved up to the 2’ classes.
I don’t see a problem with not penalizing a simple change at this level, but it does raise a little bit of a question. If you have 2 trips that are otherwise equal in every way, but one does simple changes and one does flying changes, which one do you pin on top? If you pin the flying changes on top, aren’t you penalizing the simples?
When I’ve done some judging at little schooling shows, I would have pinned it flying > simple if that situation came up. (It never did).
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But SS in many places is 2’ -2’3", may or may not have oxers.
And sometimes failure to change cleanly or at all is due to conformational or soundness issues and if you call it a Hunter class and judge it on the horse? It’s going to be a deduction. I don’t think auto changes are really taught, they are a function of the conformation and balance the horse was born with, enough miles to know where they are going next and if the rider doesn’t strangle the forward out of them they’ll change by themselves because it’s more comfortable.
For novice level riders, correct simple changes are NOT easy, requiring a half halt or very quick down transition with horse ahead of leg and no more then 2-3 trot steps…trotting 8 strides looking at the ground while being dragged around is not a clean simple change. Yet see it all the time and hear complaints that there was a deduction for no flying change ignoring the mess of a simple change they showed the judge.
Think it’s fine to teach riders how to get a lead change on a sticky or reluctant mount but don’t put them in a show class knowing it won’t happen and expect special consideration. Matter of fact, don’t put them in the show ring in a division they aren’t ready for on a Pony/horse that can’t do something the division requires. Period. It’s not hood mileage and it’s not a good experience for a learning rider…but that’s a very unpopular opinion these days.
I do think that ground pole classes should be just around the fence line, not set with a change of direction and crossrails classes where the canter is optional should not penalize lack of a flying change but if they choose to canter, they better be on the correct lead however they accomplish that.
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When I was doing SS in Colorado it was 2’6 - 2’9 and I was on a 13 hand medium! It was like doing the Grand Prix to me. Maybe that’s why I have my hard core views on SS lead changes, lol. I just doing think of it as “that” low level - to me that is cross rails and beginner divisions at local shows.
:eek::eek::eek: C-rated Children’s Pony is 2’6"!
SS is unrated by the USE, but I just checked the MHSA (MD) specs for it at the big local circuit, and it’s 18" with no oxers. It does run in the same ring as the pony divisions, low child/adut, etc so uses those courses, just as small verticals not oxers, and prizelist makes no mention of simple changes. I just looked up the VHSA (VA) specs, and per their rulebook, it’s kind of up to shows, but heights 18"-2’ and at least 4 fences, and championships will include a change of direction.
Several series around here do run a “mini stirrup” that is a 4-crossrail, once-around-the ring type course, often in a smaller ring.
This was back in 1989 in Colorado. But even now some of the 2’ SS are daunting! Those AA shows in Conyers make a pretty huge SS course.
