[QUOTE=PlanB;7995610]
I think it’s not politically correct on COTH to say that there is no such thing as magic ;)[/QUOTE]
And … there are plenty that will prove that, right?
[QUOTE=CrowneDragon;7995555]
There is no relationship between riding horses and veganism. There are some people who are against any “objectification” of animals, but that is a fairly extreme viewpoint.
I do own leather, but have not bought any since becoming vegan. I do not see what would be gained by getting rid of it, and there is a lot of sentimental value in some of my tack. I am happy that synthetic stuff is more and more widely available. And yes, it is possible that there could be some kind of animal-derived byproducts in those products (aside from petroleum), but I am a realist and at a certain point I can only do the best I can do.
And yes, I also avoid animal products in other forms (soaps, makeup, clothing, shoes, etc).[/QUOTE]
I find the ‘getting rid of past animal products’ an interesting conundrum. I can understand the concern over the death of that animal. That being said, when I was growing up I owned two or three rabbit fur coats. All of them were bought second hand somehow (garage sale/thrift store) and given to my vegan grandmother when we outgrew them. She used them as cat beds and had no qualms about that.
I also have a coat and pillbox hat given to me from my step-mom. It came from her mom, so it is an heirloom, but I am afraid to wear it out anywhere as I don’t want a crazy person to throw paint on it.
[QUOTE=zippyrider;7995404]
Yes, saying you are abusive is likely unfounded, insensitive, and offensive. But I don’t agree that vegans are hateful, and her appearance (which looks healthy, IMO) has nothing to do with it. I have many, many vegan friends, and none of them has ever questioned my riding. They personally wouldn’t do it, but they also understand the vegan lifestyle can be a challenging one and is not for everyone. Tolerance.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I have no problem with the woman in the video saying that riding isn’t vegan. What I do object to is the assertion that riding is cruel.
[QUOTE=Ajierene;7995663]
I find the ‘getting rid of past animal products’ an interesting conundrum. I can understand the concern over the death of that animal. That being said, when I was growing up I owned two or three rabbit fur coats. All of them were bought second hand somehow (garage sale/thrift store) and given to my vegan grandmother when we outgrew them. She used them as cat beds and had no qualms about that.
I also have a coat and pillbox hat given to me from my step-mom. It came from her mom, so it is an heirloom, but I am afraid to wear it out anywhere as I don’t want a crazy person to throw paint on it.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like there’s a vegan “spectrum” from true vegan to just kind of vegan to carnivore.
[QUOTE=Ajierene;7995663]
I also have a coat and pillbox hat given to me from my step-mom. It came from her mom, so it is an heirloom, but I am afraid to wear it out anywhere as I don’t want a crazy person to throw paint on it.[/QUOTE]
I remember reading somewhere about the dilemma of what to do with fur coats that people don’t want to wear, but don’t want to get rid of… one suggestion was making a teddy bear or something out of it. Repurposing it in a way that won’t get paint thrown on you.
[QUOTE=PlanB;7995676]
Sounds like there’s a vegan “spectrum” from true vegan to just kind of vegan to carnivore.[/QUOTE]
well, there are ethical vegans and health vegans. i have a friend who was the latter; had no problem buying/wearing leather, etc, but was fanatical about what he ate. if he didn’t know what ingredients were in something, he wouldn’t eat it. i think it was a cholesterol issue… anyway, as his health improved, he went back to eating dairy and some fish.
but as you say, there’s a spectrum, and people do what they do for lots of reasons (including the ethical vegan and animal rights supporter who decries human uses of animals for anything, while cuddling his/her cats and/or dogs).
[QUOTE=Ajierene;7995663]
I also have a coat and pillbox hat given to me from my step-mom. It came from her mom, so it is an heirloom, but I am afraid to wear it out anywhere as I don’t want a crazy person to throw paint on it.[/QUOTE]
I would wear it proudly. Of course, if it’s cold enough around here to wear a fur coat, chances of you walking by someone holding a paint can is pretty slim. It was -30c this morning; I was certainly happy to have my goose down coat.
[QUOTE=alibi_18;7995605]
Well, using an animal for sport is agains’t every vegan beliefs. Putting a bit in their mouth and a saddle on their back to “use” them is not supposed to be ok for a vegan. I’ve never find a website, book, or true vegan who would say otherwise.
If you consider yourself as a “moderate” vegan then you’re just a vegetalien trying not to use too much animal by-products. And that’s fine.
But Veganism is about being extreme.[/QUOTE]
These are your definitions.
There are people who think that owning a dog is against a vegan philosophy, but I would dare say that the majority of vegans own pets. I am vegan because I like animals and I enjoy spending time with them. I have a dog. I don’t feel that I am doing her any disservice by having her. Same with my horses. There are some people who hold extreme views who are often the most outspoken. If you look around online, there are many debates on this, with people making cogent arguments for both sides. There is no unanimous rulebook that you have to sign.
I really have nothing further to say here. Seeing the number of thumbs up that saultgirl’s post has garnered in saying that vegans are out of touch with reality shows a lot about these boards. I think I am done here for a while.
She doesn’t look healthy.
[QUOTE=charismaryllis;7995693]
well, there are ethical vegans and health vegans. i have a friend who was the latter; had no problem buying/wearing leather, etc, but was fanatical about what he ate. if he didn’t know what ingredients were in something, he wouldn’t eat it. i think it was a cholesterol issue… anyway, as his health improved, he went back to eating dairy and some fish.
but as you say, there’s a spectrum, and people do what they do for lots of reasons (including the ethical vegan and animal rights supporter who decries human uses of animals for anything, while cuddling his/her cats and/or dogs).[/QUOTE]
I guess this just be the case. I usually distinguish those who live the vegan lifestyle (no animals or animal products in their lives) from those that data vegan diet and try to minimize their use of animal products. Clearly, for the video blogger, riding does not fit with the full-on vegan lifestyle.
[QUOTE=Mike Matson;7995705]
She doesn’t look healthy.[/QUOTE]
Are our views for what constitutes a healthy look skewed by the fact that more than 2/3 of Americans are overweight or obese? I think she looks far, far healthier than most Americans, and I would put money on the table that her key indicators for health, lack of morbidities, and longevity are far better.
I love your posts, but this focus on her appearance has gotten under my skin!! I have said my peace! 
I think the fundamental problem with the conversation that we are trying to have- is that there is one word- vegan- which describes both a diet and a philosophy, so over and over people are trying to define their own position within the vegan spectrum.
People who aren’t vegan are calling out things they view as hypocritical, vegans are calling each other out for falling short of their own definition of what it means- when it really comes down to a simple failing of vocabulary. It seems to me that there are likely more than the two ends of the spectrum I mentioned, but I think it’s high time for a new word, having nothing to do with the particulars of what a person puts in their mouth- to describe that worldview.
A co-worker once started talking to me about being vegetarian (not vegan), and that segued into talking about animal cruelty, etc, and he asked me didn’t I think it was better not to eat animals since I was an animal lover? I answered that God intended for us to eat meat. When he asked why I thought that, I answered Because he gave us canine teeth with which to tear and chew meat. He just looked at me with a deer-in-the-headlights look and said Wow, you just blew up my reasoning. And that was the end of the discussion.
[QUOTE=Real Rush;7995782]
A co-worker once started talking to me about being vegetarian (not vegan), and that segued into talking about animal cruelty, etc, and he asked me didn’t I think it was better not to eat animals since I was an animal lover? I answered that God intended for us to eat meat. When he asked why I thought that, I answered Because he gave us canine teeth with which to tear and chew meat. He just looked at me with a deer-in-the-headlights look and said Wow, you just blew up my reasoning. And that was the end of the discussion.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention we lack the digestive tract to effectively digest plant matter.
My last dressage instructor was a dyed-in-the-wool vegan and believe even SHE would think this woman’s off her rocker. :eek:
I think it is equally cruel to send our children to school. 
Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.
That’s from vegansociety.com
Notice it’s not defined as a diet.
I think keeping pets and riding horses is incompatible with veganism.
[QUOTE=PlanB;7995843]
Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.
That’s from vegansociety.com
Notice it’s not defined as a diet.
I think keeping pets and riding horses is incompatible with veganism.[/QUOTE]
Yes. Totally.
I wonder why the need for labels. Why is there a need to announce or tag someone with a label? Why is it that there is a need to announce I am eating this way because I am a (fill in the blank)? Or you must be eating that way because you are a (fill in the blank)?
[QUOTE=Hulk;7995853]
I wonder why the need for labels. Why is there a need to announce or tag someone with a label? Why is it that there is a need to announce I am eating this way because I am a (fill in the blank)? Or you must be eating that way because you are a (fill in the blank)?[/QUOTE]
This isn’t about eating.
