Is there a definitive source for decoding CWDs?

[Bristol_Bay]

I finally have some money to spend on a nice saddle, but am hoping to go used so I can get new boots and a new bridle as well.

There are some lovely saddles out there, and some very helpful threads on COTH. I am just wondering of there is anything published out there that will explain what all the letters and numbers refer to.

Saddle #1 is

SE02 175 TC 3C
PL 1705 205 305 RT
14 31267

Saddle #2 is

SE02 175 TR 4L PL
PA 700 205 305 RT
11 14943

I know the first two are model and seat size, the 3C and 4L are flap length and forwardness, and the last line is year made and serial number.

I’d appreciate any help here. Thank you!

[hunterjumper98]

Usually the second line refers to any tweaking to the shape of the panels and any extra padding in the saddle. The numbers indicate any padding changes (addition or the reduction of padding). I think your best best would be contacting a CWD rep to get them to explain the coding to you and what it mean in terms of exact fit. I do know what some of the letters mean though.

PA stands for pro-panels.
RT means regular twist.
I’m not sure what PL means, but my guess would be that it has something to do with the panel shape.

[achcosuva]

[QUOTE=hunterjumper98;8779874]

I’m not sure what PL means, but my guess would be that it has something to do with the panel shape.[/QUOTE]
I just researched this in looking for a saddle for my mare. PL is pommel lowered from what I found, but I only found that one place (HighLine Tack) so I can’t verify it. You can find the PL on both the “rider” line (the first one with seat size and flap length) and sometimes on the “horse” line (the one with the number combinations for panel foam).

According to most sources, the RT does NOT mean regular twist, it is indicative of the shaving of panels to allow for more shoulder freedom.

From what I found, the 705, 205, 305 panel combo was most often referred to as the pro panels. The 710 I tried for my mare was supposedly more foam to pad for a high wither.

[hunterjumper98]

Wow I had no idea that RT didn’t mean regular twist! My old rep told me that is what it was, so maybe he was wrong! :lol: These codes are so confusing!

[IPEsq]

PA has more room at the pommel.

705, 205, 305 is the “standard” panel. I think 705, 205, 305 RT is the “pro panel”. Subtracting by 5 means 5mm less padding. Adding by 5 means 5mm more padding. So, 700 would have less padding than standard in the front. 710 would have more.

There is also such a thing as RT+ but I don’t know if that’s exactly how it’s stamped. That provides more scapula room extended farther down the panel towards the bottom of the flap.

[achcosuva]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;8780165]

705, 205, 305 is the “standard” panel. I think 705, 205, 305 RT is the “pro panel”. Subtracting by 5 means 5mm less padding. Adding by 5 means 5mm more padding. So, 700 would have less padding than standard in the front. 710 would have more.[/QUOTE]
Do you know what it means when it is missing one of the 7/2/3 stamps? For example, I ran across several saddles that only had one of the numbers.
for example: PA 305 RT
I was wondering if that meant the 7 and 2 areas were 700 and 200, but that doesn’t make sense if 705 205 305 is standard.

[achcosuva]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;8780165]

There is also such a thing as RT+ but I don’t know if that’s exactly how it’s stamped. That provides more scapula room extended farther down the panel towards the bottom of the flap.[/QUOTE]
I have seen an RT+ along the way. That saddle also had an added 805 after the +, which I have only seen the once.

[achcosuva]

double post.

[IPEsq]

[QUOTE=achcosuva;8780178]
Do you know what it means when it is missing one of the 7/2/3 stamps? For example, I ran across several saddles that only had one of the numbers.
for example: PA 305 RT
I was wondering if that meant the 7 and 2 areas were 700 and 200, but that doesn’t make sense if 705 205 305 is standard.[/QUOTE]

No, I haven’t been able to figure that one out either. My original stamp was PA 710 210 305 (should also say RT but doesn’t) and I was told that we were just adding 5mm to the front and middle. Except of course for a place where the middle panel is really 205 under the stirrup bars, which was a custom alteration.

Now I’ve changed it to where it would be more like PA 710, 205 (or 200? because we took more out in that custom spot too), 310 RT+, and I wonder how it would be stamped if it was made new like this.

[pattnic]

[QUOTE=Bristol Bay;8779852]
I finally have some money to spend on a nice saddle, but am hoping to go used so I can get new boots and a new bridle as well.

There are some lovely saddles out there, and some very helpful threads on COTH. I am just wondering of there is anything published out there that will explain what all the letters and numbers refer to.

Saddle #1 is

SE02 175 TC 3C
PL 1705 205 305 RT
14 31267

Saddle #2 is

SE02 175 TR 4L PL
PA 700 205 305 RT
11 14943

I know the first two are model and seat size, the 3C and 4L are flap length and forwardness, and the last line is year made and serial number.

I’d appreciate any help here. Thank you![/QUOTE]

Are you sure of the stamping on these saddles? SE02s should both be stamped with the same “T” notation.

@hunterjumper98;8779874

Usually the second line refers to any tweaking to the shape of the panels and any extra padding in the saddle. The numbers indicate any padding changes (addition or the reduction of padding). I think your best best would be contacting a CWD rep to get them to explain the coding to you and what it mean in terms of exact fit.

Yes, this is correct, though asking a rep to decode the panels is iffy, at best. Some of them don’t seem to actually know what the nomenclature means.

[QUOTE=hunterjumper98;8779874]PA stands for pro-panels.
RT means regular twist.
I’m not sure what PL means, but my guess would be that it has something to do with the panel shape.[/QUOTE]

No. None of this is correct.

Almost every CWD I’ve seen has been stamped PA… I just always thought that meant the panel configuration was the following numbers. I could be wrong on what PA means, but it doesn’t mean “pro panels.”

The standard panel is 700/200/300 and is often notated as “ST”. If numbers are missing from the series, it means nothing has been altered in that location from the standard.

The “pro panel” is 705/205/305.

It has been my understanding that the two digits following the 7/2/3 actually mean that foam has been removed from the associated location. (EDIT - This is not entirely correct; see posts 15-17)

The “RT” means the thinning of the panel to accommodate the scapula.

“PL” is the lowered pommel, which is a wider twist.

[pattnic]

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?476091-CWD-Codes-705-vs-710

[Bristol_Bay]

Thanks everyone for clearing that up.

[IPEsq]

I don’t think that’s right about the 05 or 10 meaning padding removed. I know for a fact we had to build up the panels for more wither clearance in my saddle at first so the 710 and 210 makes sense. My rep confirmed when I wanted to take out some padding in the middle that originally, there had been extra.

That said, I don’t know how they would stamp less than standard padding.

[pattnic]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;8780641]
I don’t think that’s right about the 05 or 10 meaning padding removed. I know for a fact we had to build up the panels for more wither clearance in my saddle at first so the 710 and 210 makes sense. My rep confirmed when I wanted to take out some padding in the middle that originally, there had been extra.

That said, I don’t know how they would stamp less than standard padding.[/QUOTE]

Shrugs All I know is that several people who worked (or work) for CWD have posted historically that the 05 or 10 means padding was removed (I quoted them in the link I posted).
Perhaps the 05 or 10 means different things in different locations on the panel?

EDIT - See posts 15-17. We’re both right (and wrong).

[Libby416]

Honestly your best bet is to ask a rep. I just had a saddle made, what a freaking headache but that aside, it’s not even stamped AO for a wide tree. And it is wide. There’s some sort of disconnect between the reps and the manufacturing process that CWD needs to get a handle on.

[pattnic]

OK, guys, I have an answer

In the 700 location, the numbers after the 7 indicate foam removed.

In the other locations, it means foam was added.

This is from an acquaintance of mine who worked for CWD.

[IPEsq]

So I just noticed they actually altered the stamp when I had the panels recently remade.

Old stamp: PA 710 210 305 (should have said RT but didn’t). Plus customizations on part of one panel, not reflected in the stamp.

Changes: took out 5mm in the middle, added 5mm to the back, went with RT+

New stamp: PA 710 205 310 RT+

I thought I had some added at the front end for lift over horse’s large withers, but I’m not sure if that’s reflected in the 700 number or the PA part, but the front panels look thicker than some of the demos I tried…

[pattnic]

[QUOTE=pattnic;8782722]
In the 700 location, the numbers after the 7 indicate foam removed.

In the other locations, it means foam was added.

This is from an acquaintance of mine who worked for CWD.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;8786437]So I just noticed they actually altered the stamp when I had the panels recently remade.

Old stamp: PA 710 210 305 (should have said RT but didn’t). Plus customizations on part of one panel, not reflected in the stamp.

Changes: took out 5mm in the middle, added 5mm to the back, went with RT+

New stamp: PA 710 205 310 RT+

I thought I had some added at the front end for lift over horse’s large withers, but I’m not sure if that’s reflected in the 700 number or the PA part, but the front panels look thicker than some of the demos I tried…[/QUOTE]

F*ck it all.

[pattnic]

OK, this is starting to all make sense now. Looking back on older threads, taken with what I was recently told and the notated changes in the panels of IPEsq’s saddle, it does seem that numbers following the 7 indicate foam removed and numbers following the 2 and 3 indicate foam added.

I test-rode a 705 315, which certainly felt built-up in the rear and I was told it by a (different) CWD rep that this was the case. So that checks out.

Several sources indicate that a 710 is wider than a 705, which is wider than a 700. My 710 fits wider through the front than the 705 I tried, so that checks out.

The 200 was causing some confusion for me, but according to this post (by a CWD employee) from a similar thread:

[QUOTE=believetobe;6919203]

Does it possibly read 705 205 RT?
If so then the 705 means its slightly widened in the shoulder, 205 means that some wither clearance has been added, the RT is the scapula cut out to seat the shoulder. [/QUOTE]

From: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...D-on-the-phone

…which then checks out with IPEsq’s saddle (the original panels) having wither clearance added.

Given the changes in IPEsq’s saddle and the new panel notation, it also checks out numbers following the 2 and 3 in those locations mean foam added.

This also makes sense in the regard that a friend’s CWD had standard panels (700/200/300) for her fairly flat-backed horse.

It also makes sense in this regard, in that added 5mm to the 200 location would provide lift to accommodate the wither:

@Jacqui;8312819

The 705 means that 5mm is removed from the front panel not added. If your horse has a high wither you will need at least a 705-205-305 panel. The standard panel will probably lay too close to the wither especially when you are in the saddle. Are you near BC in Canada? I know BC has a great CWD rep as does Alberta and we have 2 fitters in Eastern Canada. I am the New England CWD rep

From: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?475374-CWD-fans-tell-me-your-stories

And now I feel like I should go back and edit all my previous posts wherein I perpetuate falsehoods.

IPEsq - no hard feelings between us, I hope?

[IPEsq]

No not at all I want to be sure I understand the numbers as well, since my boy is still growing. Everything you posted above makes sense. My horse originally needed a lot of wither clearance…he still does but his back has changed shape such that the saddle was all of a sudden seeming to be too narrow in the middle (went pommel high and was sliding forward). It’s possible that was a mistake now that it’s settling after the adjustment, and maybe we should have kept the 205 and gone 315 in the back, but we shall see… He’s now gone back to looking lanky after he beefed up for his last growth spurt. But I’m going to try a Thinline pad before I whine to the saddle rep.

It makes sense that 710 would open up the front end. But that also suggests that the PA must indicate lift in the front panel, right? (we needed lateral wither clearance as well as some height)…or is PA something do do with pommel shape?