Is this a good match?

[Rumorhasit93]

Hi all,

I am in the very, very beginning stages of considering breeding my mare. As in, I just called the repo vet to inquire about the process for getting eggs from my mare for use in a recip mare.

Of course I’ll be consulting my vet if we do get the point of actually doing anything - but I’m excited at the thought and coming here for a little input.

My mare is my absolute heart horse. I love her more than anything - the best partner and biggest heart of any horse I’ve ridden. Definition of a war horse. She isn’t conformationally ideal, so hoping to breed something a bit more desirable in that aspect and ideally more careful and a better mover. Nothing is promised in breeding, but can these aspects be improved relatively accurately?

Are there any red flags from just a lineage standpoint to look out for?

My mare: https://www.hippomundo.com/en/pedigree/performance/490665-history-du-forgeron

Potential baby daddy: https://elitestallions.co.uk/stallion/Casall%20ASK

Reasons for choosing Casall:

• I’ve seen several of his babies in the hunter ring, they all have nice flat knees and jump well (my mare jumps very well, moves like a carthorse)
• my mare is a bit downhill and has a lot of blood, he seems to have very ammy friendly and lope-y offspring

Of course I’m sure the possibilities are endless when it comes to potential outcomes, but input is welcome!

ETA conformation/jump pic - she is a nice jumper, just not very careful. I’d love to have a hunter come out of this combo.

[JB]

conformation pic of your mare and stallion?

@Rumorhasit93

I’ve seen several of his babies in the hunter ring, they all have nice flat knees and jump well (my mare jumps very well, moves like a carthorse)

No single stallion can make a “carthorse” moving mare, produce a Hunter-suitable gait. Jump, maybe, depending on how the mare jumps and is conformed

@Rumorhasit93

my mare is a bit downhill

This is where a confo pic will help. Downhill by what definition? Butt-high? That would disqualify her from breeding, IMHO.

[Rumorhasit93]

I’ve ETA the pic to my original post. Thanks!

Apparently it’s impossible to find a conformation picture of Casall online?! There’s only a head on picture that I can find, otherwise they are all jumping photos…and I feel like the ones of my mare aren’t ideal, but it’s what I had on my phone.

[weixiao]

Casall is typically recommended for mares with a big frame, some length, and length of leg. He, like Raimond, can be a bit deep in the body and shorter legged and needs a mare that can counteract that. It is difficult to judge your mare from the angle of the conformation photo.

There are many that are rideable and amateur friendly but they also tend to be very careful and, in my opinion, often need to be produced very carefully when they are young.

I’m sure I’ve seen a conformation photo of him somewhere. I’ll look for it.

[Rumorhasit93]

My mare is 15.3 for reference

[JB]

@Rumorhasit93

I’ve ETA the pic to my original post. Thanks!

Thanks, though unfortunately those aren’t suitable for really seeing her confo

What makes you feel she’s downhill? The one side body view doesn’t suggest that

[weixiao]

I would not expect him to add any size or length of leg to her. His offspring can be all over the place size wise but you could get something small.

[Rumorhasit93]

I’d agree with how the pics look - it is more apparent when riding

[Rumorhasit93]

I don’t mind small (as in, 15.3) but no smaller…

[Rumorhasit93]

@weixiao

There are many that are rideable and amateur friendly but they also tend to be very careful and, in my opinion, often need to be produced very carefully when they are young.

I need something very careful. My mare is very casual, so looking to add that trait. The Baloubet bloodlines are notoriously quirky and it took me a while to figure her out, so am okay with taking time and developing slowly.

[ThreeWishes]

Beautiful mare. Flashy ! Don’t see butt high. See a long back and a weak upper back leg/ gaskin.

[Rumorhasit93]

@ThreeWishes

See a long back and a weak upper back leg/ gaskin.

Thank you for this insight. I admittedly don’t know what I’m looking for in conformation, and am truly impressed you can tell this from my (bad) photos!

[ThreeWishes]

Pictures and the angle they’re taken from can certainly be deceiving compared to what is actually before you.

[Laurierace]

Not answering your stallion question because I am not personally familiar with Casall but wanted to ask some follow up breeding questions. Are you planning to do ICSI or Embryo Transfer?

[thereadinghorse]

Casall in combination with Balou du Rouet could possibly be a very difficult horse. Or to say it nicer: A horse that needs a very experienced rider. Surely a great combination if you’re looking for a great talented jumper. But for sure nothing for the amateur rider.

Frame wise this could get a bit heavier than you’d like. Balous are often times a bit “bigger framed” and Casall is not really doing anything against it.

[ASBJumper]

Reading what you’ve stated plainly but also reading between the lines a little, you love your mare BUT:

• she is downhill (your opinion)
• she is short legged (not great for sweeping Hunter movement) and long-backed
• she is not careful
• she is hot (you said a lot of blood, that’s usually code for hot/quirky and you are looking for an ammie-friendly sire to tone her down)
• she is short (you said you’d definitely want nothing shorter)
• she moves “like a carthorse”

This is not a mare anyone would recommend breeding, unless you literally didn’t care what came out and you just wanted a baby from your heart mare and intended to keep it no matter what.

Yes, you could find a stallion who could improve some of her shortcomings, but it’s also pretty likely you’ll get a short, chunky, quirky jumper type… are you ok with that?

If she had just any 1 of the above strikes against her, i’d say it’s worth trying… but she has many strikes against her, not just one. If you had said “i’d be thrilled with the exact same horse, just a bit taller”, then everyone would be telling you to go for it and making recommendations…

Sorry, i imagine that’s not what you want to hear.

[Rumorhasit93]

@thereadinghorse

Casall in combination with Balou du Rouet could possibly be a very difficult horse

Even though Balou is my mares grandsire? I’m definitely open to other stallions, I just noticed how ammy friendly the Casall’s I know personally are. Granted I don’t know the damline of each of those (and probably a safe bet they aren’t Baloubet)

I also don’t mind difficult, to a degree. I would describe my mare as a bit quirky and unconventional, but I’ve owned her since she was almost 6 and she has never once refused a jump, bucked under saddle, reared, etc. so the brain and heart is what I feel I couldn’t buy, and I feel like the idea here is to make it.

All that being said, if I were to breed I would absolutely have a professional do all the work for the first 4 years or so.

[Rumorhasit93]

I did come here for honest opinions! I knew I was putting myself out there for this, and I appreciate it.

Honestly? I would be thrilled with the exact same horse as my mare, and would keep it no matter what. I do think I was asking if she could be improved upon in ways, but at the same time if I got my mare again it would be a dream come true.

If I got something a bit taller out of this and that was “it” that would be the cherry on top.

[Rumorhasit93]

Embryo transfer

[beowulf]

I think the mare is nice. She’s rather typical of her pedigree and I don’t think anyone with jumper experience could suggest that’s not worth breeding.

No mare is perfect. Just find the right sire. Casall might not be it for your purposes - I’d look at a stallion that has covered a lot of variety and still managed to consistently add the type you’re looking for.

I don’t follow hunter breeding so I don’t feel qualified to throw out stallion suggestions there. Find a stallion who covers many types and still produces fairly homogenous offspring. I love Balta Czar and Lordanos but I have no idea of their availability anymore, or frankly, their suitability to your mare.

Just in my personal circle, I’m seeing a surprising number of dressage bred horses be converted into hunters. Don’t discount the dressage stallions with decent jumping index.