I just looked at their site, and low and behold they’re allowing even the people who disagree with them post remarks-well kudos to them for that! I’m guessing that she’s getting a serious tongue lashing from Pat about this one–she really messed up, royally.:yes:
Pepperoni phases are degrees of pressure. Think of them as a corruption of “ask, tell, make” when schooling a horse. (IMHO, there is no legitimate phase 4.)
Pepperoni levels, on the other hand, propose to measure progress in your relationship to your horse, as I recall. (I was going to mention Pony Club levels as a parellel, but that’s giving Pepperoni too much credit.)
And I freely confess to having been suckered in by Parelli for a brief time. I will go to my grave kicking myself for all the lesson $ I wasted on Parelli material.
A wise and kind trainer where I boarded my horse opened my eyes by telling me, “You can’t learn to ride a bicycle from a DVD or book. Why do you think you can do this with a horse?”
Making money, obviously. And he apparently doesn’t mind selling out to do it. Just because he’s coached a lot of YR winners, doesn’t mean that he’s got the status of one of the ODGs. And he’s gotta eat, too. :winkgrin:
I just read the history of the horse in that video.
It says that he spent 11 years in a “traditional hunt barn” and that he is terribly spooky and doesn’t like people.
Now, I’m not a member of any Hunt, but I have ridden out a time or two on Hunt owned horses, and often see them going out. I’d have to say that NONE of those horses look the least bit spooky or difficult in any way. Who is going to keep a spooky, pain in the butt Hunt horse for 11 years?
And who is going to turn out a newly 1/2 blind horse for 2 years and then expect him to be A-OK when you decide it’s time to start him up again?
I don’t think that LP is the only one who went off track with this guy, but at least she should have known better.
NJR
Thanks PocketTBsMom - clarified a little! Seems like they have created their own secret language that you have to spend a ridiculous amount of money to learn
[QUOTE=caffeinated;4739071]
it. would take more time for me to learn the terminology than it would to teach 10 ex racehorses to LUNGE[/QUOTE]:lol:
The only thing worse that LP who did this to that horse is the asshat who LET her do it to their horse.
No excuse for that.
[QUOTE=Angela Freda;4739350]
The only thing worse that LP who did this to that horse is the asshat who LET her do it to their horse.
No excuse for that.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I think Linda’s worse. She’s doing it over and over again and collecting money for it.
Back in the day (when I was a teen, and the earth was cooling), The Trainer for obedience dogs was a man who employed some really rough techniques. Some people allowed “experts” to choke dogs to the point of unconsciousness because it was thought that was The Way.
I almost allowed it once. Which is why I winced when Linda told Owner to go stand by the tree.
When my dog’s feet left the floor, I remember bursting into tears, then snatching my dog ( a lovely little chocolate Dobe bitch) and heading out the door.
I’m still ashamed I let it get even that far. And to this day I would smack the living shite out of anyone who tried that crap with any of my animals. Ever. Again.
But I blame The Trainer, who was selling that shite to the public as an appropriate training method, even more than I blame myself.
And Linda - for crissakes, let out those breeches. You walk like someone with a Stayfree Maxi Pad that’s come unstuck.
ROFLMAOPIMP!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol:
I thought that’s where the missing veggie stick was kept…
This quote just made my day. 
[QUOTE=pAin’t_Misbehavin’;4739363]
And Linda - for crissakes, let out those breeches. You walk like someone with a Stayfree Maxi Pad that’s come unstuck.[/QUOTE]
Dayam!! Give a body warning before you post something like that!! I laughed so hard, I scared my dogs! I have to remember that phrase. Good one. :yes:
[QUOTE=Daydream Believer;4737950]
Not picking on this poster but wanted to point this out…has anyone else noticed that people say this…make “Parelli” into a verb? No one ever says that they are “doing Clinton Anderson” or “doing Lyons” or whatever…it’s almost as if it’s become a discipline of it’s own like one can “do dressage” or “do hunters.” [/QUOTE]
From now on “doing a Linda” will be when I have an urge to go and irritate the heck out of a horse.
I’m not sure what it means…if anything…but when someone’s name…in this case a guru making a very nice living off his followers…becomes synonymous with a training activity or discipline…it’s a little disturbing to me. I also think that may be one reason that the Parelli’s are so galvanizing either good or bad. It seems like people either love or hate them with little middle ground. I’m probably as neutral to their training methods as a non believer can be but I am very against their farrier endorsements.
Parelli is a name synonymous with cynicism by those who have a clue.
[QUOTE=pAin’t_Misbehavin’;4739363]
Oh, I think Linda’s worse. She’s doing it over and over again and collecting money for it.[/QUOTE]
Good point. Though in my mind, the owner has the most obligation to advocate for their horse. Trainers come and go, owners less so [maybe?].
This owner? Big fail.
Any owner who allows LP near their horse after this? Bigger fail.
[QUOTE=Daydream Believer;4737950]
It seems like people either love or hate them with little middle ground. I’m probably as neutral to their training methods as a non believer can be but I am very against their farrier endorsements.[/QUOTE]
Agree, it seems to a love or hate. I have found the very basics to be fine but I never jumped into the Parelli Method. The basics seemed to be common sense to me but I grew up with horses, with no trainer so I think you learn how to interact properly when all you know is horses for your first few years of being a human. I do not like this video of LP and such examples of training are concerning because it shows nervous horse owners or those who are having issues with their horses that ‘this’ is okay since it is in a training video. I think it was very bad for them to put this in a level 1 video since I bet many people just buy 1 video and then start parellifying their horse.
I did not catch Daydreams comment about Farrier endorsements until just now. I have heard this before by people who are true parelli followers - they love the method and most everything about PP but are disturbed by the PP farrier who is promoted at conferences and such. Why is this?
that’s a really good point, I train my dog (agility) at a facility where there is an obedience trainer who is very well respected - been to all the big shows etc etc. People fly in from CA to work with her…and she pinches the dogs ears until the scream in pain, it’s really aweful to hear, yet people follow her with blind faith.
I have read the comments of someone that her husband is learning to be a farrier under their system.
My understanding is that they are training and certifying farriers now, don’t know what they teach or how they are shoeing, so can’t say what methods they use for that.
[QUOTE=gloriginger;4740213]
that’s a really good point, I train my dog (agility) at a facility where there is an obedience trainer who is very well respected - been to all the big shows etc etc. People fly in from CA to work with her…and she pinches the dogs ears until the scream in pain, it’s really aweful to hear, yet people follow her with blind faith.[/QUOTE]
In the 1970’s, I was training in Novice obedience and my dobie an I did well.
Then we moved to Open and I had been watching them train for the retrieve with the ear pinch and definitely didn’t want to do that, so I quit for three months.
I taught my dog without it and then came back and just would say NO, THANKS! when I was asked to do that.
I was told repeatedly that my dog would not be consistent without the ear pinch, but they were telling me while standing next to the dog that just had retrieved flawlessly, time and again.:lol:
That was before clicker training even came to be used in dog training.
Most anyone today uses some kind of operant conditioning to train the retrieve, I didn’t know there were still trainers using ear pinch methods!:eek:
That ear pinch in dogs is not even a good comparation with what happens on this video.:no:
The horse is not being trained at all, just bopped around mercilessly and senselessly, I think.
I really expected LP to say something like “yes, that was trying to teach xyz but didn’t work and we used that part just to show that sometimes it doesn’t work quite right” and then excuse why and all that.
I didn’t expect anyone to think they could defend with a straight face what is going on there.
I hope that these debates and controversy will be a learning experience for all, including the ones in the PP system, the PPs themselves included.
Could not have a better feedback that this has been for them, along with much free publicity, both ways, getting more prospective customers and losing some maybe also.
[QUOTE=DressageGeek “Ribbon Ho”;4737707]
I read LP’s statement. If she thinks that horse was spooky…apparently she hasn’t been around horses much, has she?[/QUOTE]
I agree totally…I don’t see a spooked horse, I see one that is frightened and confused by being slapped around for no apparent reason.
The method of shimming up the hooves…mechanically unbalancing the hooves…to fix what they perceive are problems with the upper body balance is fundamentally against good farrier practices of keeping the hooves in good lateral/medial balance and the bony column aligned. I saw one of the evaluation sheets and they look at things like how the mane and tail fall…stuff like that…to make decisions on how to shim the feet.
I saw some of this method last year in our area and I was fairly shocked by how radical/bizzare it was as well as how freaking expensive it was. I don’t know of anyone who tried it who has not gone back to a traditional farrier/trimmer.
[QUOTE=Bluey;4740240]
That was before clicker training even came to be used in dog training.
Most anyone today uses some kind of operant conditioning to train the retrieve, I didn’t know there were still trainers using ear pinch methods…[/QUOTE]
Yes, my agility trainer, who is quite well accomplished in her own right, always cringes when we hear that yelp from a just pinched dog, it’s not her facility - she is in a tough spot to say anything, but one time she mumbled to me, “they could easily train this with positive reinforcement- like a clicker.” PM me if you want to know her name, you might now her, I am not an obedience person, but I do think she is pretty well known- she gives clinics all over the US.
That ear pinch in dogs is not even a good comparation with what happens on this video…
The horse is not being trained at all, just bopped around mercilessly and senselessly, I think.
Yeah, I know, I was simply using the ear pinch example as a way in which people will allow trainers to do harmful things to their animal bacause they put the trainer up on a pedastal and therfore the trainers actions somehow transcends all rational thought and the owners tell themselves “if so and so does it, it must be alright.”
But I suppose it is exactly those “sheep” mentality folks that are putting bread and butter on the Parelli’s dinner plates.
[QUOTE=Graureiter;4739208]
The problem I see in the video was the absence of “going to neutral” after the horse responded correctly. But it was not clear what the correct response would have been. At least, neither I nor my wife could figure that out.
And we, or at least my wife, are smarter then any horse:D [/QUOTE]
Absolutely right, the horse received no relief no matter what he did, poor thing. I was just as confused as the horse as to what he needed to do to stop the slapping!
