To paraphase Mr Healthy Strides Himself:
"I’m just taking good money from fat women who never ride ‘em anyway’
[QUOTE=kbbarn;4740194]
I did not catch Daydreams comment about Farrier endorsements until just now. I have heard this before by people who are true parelli followers - they love the method and most everything about PP but are disturbed by the PP farrier who is promoted at conferences and such. Why is this?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Daydream Believer;4740261]The method of shimming up the hooves…mechanically unbalancing the hooves…to fix what they perceive are problems with the upper body balance is fundamentally against good farrier practices of keeping the hooves in good lateral/medial balance and the bony column aligned. I saw one of the evaluation sheets and they look at things like how the mane and tail fall…stuff like that…to make decisions on how to shim the feet.
I saw some of this method last year in our area and I was fairly shocked by how radical/bizzare it was as well as how freaking expensive it was. I don’t know of anyone who tried it who has not gone back to a traditional farrier/trimmer.[/QUOTE]
Exactly right. This has not gone over well with Parelli students, many of whom are also into barefoot trimming. ETA: Oh, wait! I should have said “many of whom do barefoot trimming.” 
[QUOTE=Nin;4740491]
Exactly right. This has not gone over well with Parelli students, many of whom are also into barefoot trimming.[/QUOTE]
The sad thing is, even if they don’t agree with the farrier endorsement, they never seem able to grasp the concept that maybe. . .just maybe. . .there are other things that the P’s aren’t doing right.:no:
:eek: GASPETH:eek:
SHUNN SHUNNN
Watching this video and comments pro and con floating around the internet just now brings reason for rejoicing.
To the anti-Parellis like me who stopped paying attention a long, long time ago, it looks like a nice (but shocking) recognition that the emperor is wearing no clothes. It’s also great that it’s one of the founders doing such a bad job. The published defense video and barrage of comments on their website look like damage control.
To the pro-Parellis, the complaints by so many other people about what’s wrong may be just the eye-opening opportunity they need. If the vast majority of the horse-owning world can’t see what LP was trying to accomplish, it means three things.
First, that a bona fide Parelli expert ain’t all that and a bag of chips by virtue of being a Parelli-ite. Second, it means that any trainer who can’t read a horse well is selling you a load of sh!t. But third, and most important, it also recommends learning to interpret horses as the basis for training them.
And, yo, this is what has always been missing in the Parelli business plan.
Why do they call themselves “barefoot trimmers” - is it possible to trim a horse that is not barefoot? I get my horse trimmed (by a farrier).
pft, shows what you know! :rolleyes:
it’s liek the total compliment to liek luving on da pony and stuff, liek you know…
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
It’s another religion…like RK and PP…
[QUOTE=Alagirl;4740725]
pft, shows what you know! :rolleyes:
it’s liek the total compliment to liek luving on da pony and stuff, liek you know…
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
It’s another religion…like RK and PP…[/QUOTE]
SHHHHHHH! They might hear you! :uhoh:
Okay, this is what I absolutely do not understand.
The point of a training session - all disciplines, yes? even though I am grounded in dressage - is to make the horse physically better and more capable, and that the horse will be eager to continue the work at the next session. The horse should be able to relax when you are done, and feel good.
I don’t see any of that in this video. What I see is a horse that is going to be very careful about putting a hoof wrong without knowing what wrong is. This training session left the horse confused, and created stress, not contentment, acceptance, and relaxation.
Of course, I am just a bottom feeder dressage rider. What the hell do I know?..I do know, that if Linda had tried that with my horse, she would not have been able to get near him again…actually, that would be kind of funny, not that I’d ever expose my horse to this garbage: watching LP trying to get a halter on my horse.
Well, at that stage, on the ground, a horse is a horse. Discipline, yes, but with some sort of goal and meaning.
But we have not sipped the Kook Aid…what do we know!
I think it’s part of the syndrome that comes with the clientel. The "ZOMG THE HORSE MOVED!!!11!!!" move=danger… :rolleyes:
What I saw - in the youtube video - was a horse with happy feet. In place, surveying the grounds. If anything I would have giving the horse one shank and verbal cue, a ‘stand still’ or ‘no’ at most.
But all through these 10 minutes (on tape, gawd, I am to scared to imagine the out takes) I did not see one single request given to the horse, just a no around every turn for every move, even after whatever the horse did or did not do, the shanking and robe swinging continued, with ridiculous force. I thought the idea of training was to make the cues smaller, not bigger…
But then again, I know squat…I am to practical, realistic, what have you…not a kook aid swigger…
The PP followers who I have known (and to be fair some less competent trainers in other disciplines) have been adamant that the horse will fall into the program if you just squish him around enough- make the square peg round, if you will. That is the biggest problem I have with the videos and their whole training methodology- Yes, I can see why it’s appealing to have a set program in front of you, but your horse hasn’t seen the videos. If he doesn’t fit into the Parelli shaped hole, what do you do then? Linda’s answer in this video seems to be “Keep shoving, it will fit eventually”.
The goal of the program doesn’t seem to be about making the horse happy, it seems to be about making the user/trainer feel confident.
not sure whether to laugh or cry…but it seems to fit, not even going into the marketing shtick…
Dazed, confused and wonder why the hell people actually pay money to watch thier horse go through that…
A moment in time captured on video…well…4 minutes anyway…
face palm I saw this yesterday. Sick - poor one-eyed terrified horse.
I thought of this video again last night. My friend and I had our yearlings (2009 babies) turned out together. Mine has become a bit opinionated. NORMAL behavior! But he needs some guidelines.
Dinner had been served in the horses’ stalls so it was time for the boys to come in. My friend took her colt out of the turnout. My boy was haltered, and the jumpin’ jitters began. He looked left. He looked right. He “longed” himself in a circle around me. Much MUCH more action than the horse in the LP video. AND he was wearing a rope halter, so I could have been yanking him around each time he took a wrong step.
I did not do a thing. Sure, he reached the end of his rope (literally, not emotionally) and got some pressure, but that’s it. Each time he stood still, I pet him and said “good boy”. When he stood still for about 30 seconds, we went in the barn.
I guarantee you, the next time I do this exercise it will take less time for him to come to a standstill. He was able to figure out what I wanted and what got the rewards (petting, voice praise, and the big one – going to dinner!).
I am NOT a natural. I have figured this out through trial and error, but I think I can safely say that even with my errors I never sucked as badly as the multi-millionaire horse guru’s wife.
What I saw here made my blood boil. This horse was abused for at least 7 minutes that we could see between the 2 videos, and undoubtedly much longer. He was given no breaks and no opportunity to provide the “right” answer, whatever that answer may be.
There was a LOT of punishment and no training. There is a difference between delivering a painful reprimand in response to a bite, strike, or kick that puts a human in danger, and what was shown here. This horse did nothing to warrant the abuse he received.
Correct training will present the horse with a precise cue. At first the horse has no concept what the cue is, what it means, or how to respond. Your job is to help the horse make the association. Set the horse up for success. Make the correct answer also the easiest. Do not add complexity and challenge until much later. Through time and repetition, the horse associates the cue with the action, and the reward for performing that action in response to the cue. As the horse becomes more accustomed to the cue, he will respond more quickly and with more precision than when he first started out. When first training a cue, you should reward the horse lavishly for even the smallest “try” and only through hundreds of repetitions should you start to ask for “more” of the horse.
Punishment based training (Linda Parelli’s method) does not reward lavishly for the smallest try but instead punishes harshly for not enough try. Would you beat your child because they don’t understand algebra? Would you whip your dog because he did not come when you called him? 
There must be an incentive. Incentives make the world turn. So why would you whack a horse repeatedly and without mercy, on the jaw bones because he is not “respecting” you as you think he should. To me, this is an unforgivable sin.
The hotter breed horses often overreact to stimulus. Here is a one-eyed Thoroughbred who seems fairly sensitive and responsive, being repeatedly whaled in the jaw bone with a metal snap, flogged in the face, and confused by the eratic behavior of his handler. It makes sense that the horse will be hyper-sensitive to what’s going on around him, and may become more hyped up.
Horses are herd animals that tend to pay very close attention to the energy level and emotions of their herd mates. If one horse is upset, the others usually think - should I be upset to? So why would someone intentionally escalate a sitaution and flood a horse with utter chaos as a training technique? This is completley assinine and ridiculous.
If this horse truly was dangerous and on the verge of being out of control (clearly he was not), then set the horse up for success ferchristsake! Take him to an indoor arena, no tack, no commotion and distraction. Just horse and trainer, and start establishing a set of cues that the horse can feel good about learning. He will learn to trust the handler and respond to cues, regardless of outside distractions.
If being outside in the wind, in the open, with tack on, spectators videoing, an owner standing by, etc. is too much for the horse, then why do you stick him in this situation and then beat him when he fails? YOU Linda Parelli FAILED and you failed miserably. That poor horse was a SAINT. The fact that he did not bolt and tear that rope out of your hand then run himself silly for half an hour is a testament to his forgiving nature. If this horse has gone on to do great things, I assure you that it had NOTHING to do with this training session!
Everybody makes a mistake. We over-react, punish a horse when we shouldn’t, spoil them when we shouldnt, but not many of us make videos and charge people thousands of dollars so they too can make the same stupid mistakes. What was shown in these videos by Linda Parelli was unthinkable, unacceptable, and unforgivable. Pat and Linda Parelli have no legal obligation to issue a public apology, but they sure as hell ought to.
My guy got zapped pretty bad on the nose by static electricty during blanketing a couple of months ago and it freaked him out completely. From then on every time he saw a blanket coming, he started pacing and getting nervous. The head would fly up, muscles get tight, legs brace, while he stands there waiting for the worst. He’s since gotten over it but it took a long time of putting blankets on and off for him to eventually get over it and trust that it won’t happen again.
I learned a really important lesson through that experience though. My horse had worn fly sheets, blankets, rain sheets, etc. a thousand times and never batted an eyelash, until ONE…JUST ONE… bad experience changed it all. One hard static zap on the nose and he associated blanketing with the devil.
Just ONE burst of anger where you mistreat a horse can stick with them for a very long time. All horses are different of course, but this guy is not very forgiving at all. I try not to make mistakes because he has a mind like a steel trap.
I assure you that if Linda Parelli did this to MY horse, he’d hit the end of that line and take her for a joy ride across the pasture. Then she’d never be able to catch him again.
[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;4737651]
I saw an angry woman, even if some did not. Certainly not a caring and sensitive horselover.
.[/QUOTE]
I thought she resembled an obnoxious drunk.
I see you were busy torturing your horses. I kinda missed you. :lol:
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;4741142]
What I saw here made my blood boil. This horse was abused for at least 7 minutes that we could see between the 2 videos, and undoubtedly much longer. He was given no breaks and no opportunity to provide the “right” answer, whatever that answer may be.
There was a LOT of punishment and no training. There is a difference between delivering a painful reprimand in response to a bite, strike, or kick that puts a human in danger, and what was shown here. This horse did nothing to warrant the abuse he received.
Correct training will present the horse with a precise cue. At first the horse has no concept what the cue is, what it means, or how to respond. Your job is to help the horse make the association. Set the horse up for success. Make the correct answer also the easiest. Do not add complexity and challenge until much later. Through time and repetition, the horse associates the cue with the action, and the reward for performing that action in response to the cue. As the horse becomes more accustomed to the cue, he will respond more quickly and with more precision than when he first started out. When first training a cue, you should reward the horse lavishly for even the smallest “try” and only through hundreds of repetitions should you start to ask for “more” of the horse.
Punishment based training (Linda Parelli’s method) does not reward lavishly for the smallest try but instead punishes harshly for not enough try. Would you beat your child because they don’t understand algebra? Would you whip your dog because he did not come when you called him? There must be an incentive. Incentives make the world turn. So why would you whack a horse repeatedly and without mercy, on the jaw bones because he is not “respecting” you as you think he should. To me, this is an unforgivable sin.
The hotter breed horses often overreact to stimulus. Here is a one-eyed Thoroughbred who seems fairly sensitive and responsive, being repeatedly whaled in the jaw bone with a metal snap, flogged in the face, and confused by the eratic behavior of his handler. It makes sense that the horse will be hyper-sensitive to what’s going on around him, and may become more hyped up.
Horses are herd animals that tend to pay very close attention to the energy level and emotions of their herd mates. If one horse is upset, the others usually think - should I be upset to? So why would someone intentionally escalate a sitaution and flood a horse with utter chaos as a training technique? This is completley assinine and ridiculous.
If this horse truly was dangerous and on the verge of being out of control (clearly he was not), then set the horse up for success ferchristsake! Take him to an indoor arena, no tack, no commotion and distraction. Just horse and trainer, and start establishing a set of cues that the horse can feel good about learning. He will learn to trust the handler and respond to cues, regardless of outside distractions.
If being outside in the wind, in the open, with tack on, spectators videoing, an owner standing by, etc. is too much for the horse, then why do you stick him in this situation and then beat him when he fails? YOU Linda Parelli FAILED and you failed miserably. That poor horse was a SAINT. The fact that he did not bolt and tear that rope out of your hand then run himself silly for half an hour is a testament to his forgiving nature. If this horse has gone on to do great things, I assure you that it had NOTHING to do with this training session!
Everybody makes a mistake. We over-react, punish a horse when we shouldn’t, spoil them when we shouldnt, but not many of us make videos and charge people thousands of dollars so they too can make the same stupid mistakes. What was shown in these videos by Linda Parelli was unthinkable, unacceptable, and unforgivable. Pat and Linda Parelli have no legal obligation to issue a public apology, but they sure as hell ought to.[/QUOTE]
I can’t agree more. Has Pat made any sort of public statement regarding this or have we only heard from the Queen, Linda?
