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Is this situation a bad fit?

Hunter/Jumper
#1

I’m an adult rider. 30 years experience but a 10 year hiatus that I’ve returned from. As a teen I was super competitive in the 1.10 and 1.20 jumper divisions. Won at a lot of big shows and rode under some well known trainers. I’ve also had success in the 3’ hunters and equ.

I started my daughter at a nearby farm with a reputable lesson program. I wanted a correct and safe start for her. Their focus is mainly hunters. Now I’m also taking lessons with a fun group of adults there and care leasing a lower level horse. Daughter and I both are having fun with little shows.

Since my care lease started, I’ve been discouraged. First, it’s very short term. The reason given makes sense, but I wonder if they’re checking me out for suitability before a longer commitment. Mind you I still can ride well and my horsemanship and care are excellent. I feel like I’m always getting reprimanded or misunderstood. For example, horse got really spooky and fresh. Way over jumped a tiny vertical. Trainer didn’t warn me of this tendency (he isn’t supposed to jump bigger than 2’6”) so I totally wasn’t expecting the huge, athletic effort. It surprised the heck out of me and I pulled up to prevent what I thought may be a massive buck coming after. Trainer yelled “Do not punish him for that!” That wasn’t what I was doing. I’d never yank on his mouth. I literally thought he was going to launch me into orbit. It’s just one example, but feels like a lot of frequent criticisms. It feels like they’re afraid I’ll ruin him or something. I’m considering giving it up after the term is finished because I don’t like this feeling at all. I’d really much rather own my own horse. I’m a hard worker with a load of experience just trying to rebuild my skills and confidence. I love my horses and riding in general. I’m not sure if the care lease is a bad fit or the situation in general. Daughter is happy and doing well. I’m just a little lost in my journey. Thoughts?

1 Like
#2

If your daughter is happy, keep her at the barn. I’d give yourself more time. They don’t know you and you are still getting to know the horse. Launching from care lease back into full ownership because of some icky feeling feedback is a big leap. It could be that it would be better to just lesson there and see if there’s another barn with a horse that needs to be hacked for more saddle time while you’re figuring out next steps.

1 Like
#3

Nothing in the example you gave is a red flag to me. Sounds more like you’re still getting to know the new horse and getting back in the swing of things after the hiatus. If you don’t like how the trainer talks to you in general that’s a separate issue you could raise, but that’s probably not specific to you riding this horse.

Short/flexible lease terms for a cheap on-site lease are not unusual. Sounds like you’re looking for a year commitment? I can understand an owner not wanting that for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to making sure it’s a good situation for everyone first.

Is it at all possible you are maybe overestimating your abilities, or still leaning on your previous experience instead of taking stock of where you are now? It’s very common for re-riders to have to adjust their perspective, it can be hard to adjust to how much 10 years off can impact your riding. Just something to think about. You’re very adamant in your post about your excellent horsemanship, past wins, working with BNTs, etc; if there’s any chance you’re coming across as unwilling to listen to your trainer or the owner when they tell you things that could be leading to frustration all around.

26 Likes
#4

This. It’s so surprising how we lose track of where our bodies are in space - both just in general, but especially after time off and kids!

Do you have someone to video? Is there ANY chance you felt like you reasonably pulled him up after the jump but you actually got scared, locked up, and sat him down hard? Are the other adult riders in your group at the same level? As in, doing the same things and having had time off? How are they being instructed? Same type of way?

Sounds like you’re new to the horse and the program yourself. I’d really suggest getting video of your rides and trying to objectively compare how it feels vs how it looks! You could be 100% on the money, or you could be surprised.

8 Likes
#5

Adding on - if you’re not comfortable with the instruction, DEFINITELY don’t buy a horse and keep it in this program. It’s okay to decide an instructor isn’t for you, but I don’t think the core issue here is the lease horse.

23 Likes
#6

Is it possible you are trying to ride the horse as if he were your more experienced jumper, while they prefer their lesson horses to go along without much interference? I see it a lot at my barn where re-riders will come in and immediately try to get the lesson horses on the bit and moving like their old show horses. Yes, they are still skilled (if rusty) riders, but sometimes don’t quite understand that they are in a different situation than when they walked away years ago. Lesson horses have a different job than show horses, and to keep them happy and comfortable the trainers like to see them rewarded for safely going around at an appropriate pace, without too much interference from the various riders they have every week. I’d have a conversation with your trainer and see if your goals match what a short term lease at that barn can offer. Perhaps you either have to back off on your expectations for how the horse goes, or need to talk about moving to a more typical lease that will allow you to pursue higher level riding.

26 Likes
#7

Why not just look into a different lease horse? Jumping back immediately into ownership so soon seems like an extreme reaction. It could be you’re just a bad fit for this horse. You might just like a horse with a flatter jump. Especially as a re-rider, trying a bunch of horses before owning seems wise.

4 Likes
#8

There is already excellent advice here. I think as adults it is hard to get used to the idea of people telling us what to do, especially for type-A professionals (not saying you are one!). When I started riding again, I didn’t appreciate the tone and manner of some of the trainers I encountered. That could be the particular instructor you’re working with, but in my experience, receiving a lot of critical feedback is a normal thing in learning to ride again. I echo all the challenges a re-rider can face. After a 20 year hiatus, I finally now (5 years since re-starting) feel like I am more or less at the level I was when I was a teenager competing in the junior hunters and equitation. Jumping the same height, able to ride multiple horses competently, have a similar “eye” as before. Even still, my progress is much slower and I get scared more easily. I am frequently very frustrated by the mistakes I make at home and in the ring, even though I am pretty good at not showing it: my issue is that every round I manage to mess something up. Chip, fall back in air in the 2-stride, move around too much, etc. I think part of this is being an adult: a mother, a person with a career, other adult responsibilities, all these things make it a challenge to get on, focus, learn, and execute. Be patient with yourself!

Edited to say: another plug for videos, it is shocking how much it helps! Oftentimes seeing that you look better than you thought is encouraging. If you can get a video you’re proud of, watch it before every ride. Whether at home or at a show, doesn’t matter. This has helped a lot!

10 Likes
#9

With that one example, I think the conversation maybe should have been different, but it wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me necessarily. Perhaps it felt different to you than it looked from the ground. Also would have been good for you to have a heads up about that. I had a young horse who would totally have landed ready to yeehaw after a green jump like that. My current young horse nearly launched me to the moon once over an 18” vertical (there was a shadow), but he is always under control on the back side. He’s got some moves for sure but bucking the rider off after the jump hasn’t been one that’s crossed his mind yet, thankfully. You can learn from this event with a new to you horse and move on.

That said, I’ve also been in a lesson where the horse was getting stressed, and I jumped a jump and halted instead of going on to do whatever else I was supposed to do. The instructor got frustrated, and I just said, I’m on a ticking time bomb at the moment and don’t want to die today. He looked like his normal self I suppose, but the explosion was in there, and really the whole lesson was asking for things that were making it worse and not better and I just had to shut it down and stand up for myself and the horse in that situation.

That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a bad fit in and of itself. But does this kind of thing happen a lot? Do you generally just not like the way this instructor speaks to you? If so, then it is not a good fit, and getting your own horse isn’t going to change that.

5 Likes
#10

With your track record, you should be able to take some correction, even delivered in the “riding instructor voice” and bluntness as happened. I’m positive you got some of this as a good-riding teen in a show barn. Just be that good student again now.

Second, the pro was kind of right. Your motivation, here it sounds like it was self-preservation, still might have created a punishing or unfair or conflicting experience for the horse. Thus, you can be at odds with the horse. But you are responsible for the horse’s experience, too. And you can’t ride defensively-- riding a horse for a mistake he hasn’t made yet.

Perhaps the pro was being protective of someone else’s horse. And if you are doing a care lease, the owner isn’t getting a whole lot out of it; they need the horse to come back at least as good as he went out to you. It is the pro’s job to baby sit this relationship.

If you were the owner of that horse and watched your ride, what would you have wanted to pro to do?

I would just take this correction or misunderstanding in stride and keep going for a while.

14 Likes
#11

Oof.

I have a slightly different opinion than most of what’s been written, but it essentially boils down to - if you’re at the point of asking yourself this question, you know it’s certainly not a good fit. And I try to live by the phrase, “if it’s not a hell yes, it’s a hell no.”

You may be overestimating your abilities. The trainer may certainly have seen something that looked different than it felt. (That happens to me all the time.) BUT that doesn’t mean that you have to simply be a cog in the wheel and completely conform to someone else’s program if it doesn’t align with you.

I find that I run into trouble a lot because I ask questions (“Why are we doing this? What’s the logic in doing that? What about this other thing?”). My questions are genuinely because I’m trying to understand the reasoning behind decisions - whether it’s a bit decision, or a certain course or exercise we’re being asked to do that day. That’s how you learn and grow. But more and more I’m finding trainers and programs who don’t want to answer questions or have discussions, they just want obedience. I don’t thrive in those programs, and that’s okay.

But - I’m very blessed because I do own my own small property. I have a feeling I’d have to be much more flexible if I was beholden to someone else.

9 Likes
#12

Of course they are. If I were leasing my horse, much less care leasing, I’d want to be sure the new person at the barn was the right person for him before committing to anything long term.

You’re an adult; have an adult conversation with the trainer about your concerns. And if that doesn’t go the way you want it to, then it’s not a good fit for you and your expectations of a barn/training program.

7 Likes
#13

Eh, I’m sure we all have times when our trainer says something and we either feel like “that’s not what I was doing!” or “Well, yes, Captain Obvious, I knew that!”

The trainer is reacting to what she sees in the moment. It may be that some other rider might have escalated the situation you describe and she wanted to stop that happening. I wouldn’t take it personally.

That’s why I really like riding miked up to the trainer. We can have an easy back-and-forth conversation during the ride that lets you both understand the nuance of the ride and respond in real time.

And yes, I’d be testing the heck out of you or anyone else before I let you take on a long-term lease. Don’t take that personally, either.

2 Likes
#14

If it was me, I would assume that the trainer is looking out for their horse and I pulled the horse up a little harder than I wanted to when all the horse did was jump a little fancier than I was prepared for.

But… You don’t have to be me.

You are allowed to want a different type of instructor.

I would probably wait to buy your own horse at this point. See where your daughter goes with her riding and make a decision later on about buying.

Is there another trainer at that barn you can ride with?

2 Likes
#15

I will say that I have found care leases to be some of the more nuanced, complicated leases. Yes it’s free (relatively), but that doesn’t mean the lease is without stipulations and very close eyes on the horse. Most of the care leases I know are horses who are very, very beloved by trainer and/or owner and are very particular about how a horse is ridden and taken care of.

In some cases, that level of nit does go to extremes and almost makes a care lease not worth it (I’ve backed out of one before where the horse was great but the owner about drove me up a wall, and I just couldn’t handle incessant SMS after 8PM about how to apply Corona). In most cases, however, it’s a matter of being mentally flexible and knowing that the extra stipulations are coming from a place of knowing the horse very well and caring a lot about it. So even if something seems like overkill or not at all what you would do, you pick your battles wisely and trust that folks know what they’re saying/asking.

In this particular instance, I can’t recommend videoing enough! It’s such a tattle tale on what you perceive vs. what is actually happening. I video’d almost every lesson when I came back to riding 5+ years later.

Also, this sounds like a very new relationship with the trainer–they don’t know you as a rider! It will take some time to build trust so that you can have a dialogue about what you feel/believe needs to happen, but no reason you can’t start now. “I’m not feeling what you’re seeing at all–can you show me what you’re seeing me do? Can you video what I’m doing?” Always approach with curiosity and that will mitigate any risk of sounding defensive.

6 Likes
#16

When I went back to riding seriously, after a long break, I found that my brain knew exactly what my body ought to be doing. The problems were, 1.) my body, all to often, failed to cooperate and 2.) my brain was remarkably bad about realizing when my body was failing to cooperate.

I remember one lesson when my instructor had to pull me into the center of the ring to have a discussion of my posture. She had been repeatedly telling me to sit up straight. My brain kept double checking with my body and reporting back that we were sitting up straight.

My instructor made me lean forward. Lean forward a bit more. Good. Now you’re sitting up straight. Brain and body both agreed that no, we were not sitting up straight, we were leaning forward. She said I was just going to have to “lean forward” until my brain rewired itself back to accurately assessing how I was sitting. And eventually it did. Mostly. :slight_smile:

So, you might want to consider that what you think you’re doing may not actually be exactly what your instructor is seeing.

17 Likes
#17

OH my gosh. Such a good point. A very good point. My body and brain are always doing this to me.

5 Likes
#18

Many moons ago, I was in a jumping lesson on a greenish horse. What I felt was the horse over jumping and then galloping out. I thought I might get lawn darted about then. So I pulled the horse up. My coach hollered at me something like don’t you ever dare punish that again.

What my coach saw was me making mistakes and dumping the horse at a bad spot. My coach thought I might get lawn darted right about then if the horse had (reasonably) refused the fence. What she saw instead was the horse putting in extra effort to get us both safely to the other side.

Maybe you experienced a similar disconnect between what you felt and what the trainer saw.

9 Likes
#19

When I returned to riding in my 40s I realized I had to check my ego at the barn door because it didn’t matter how cool I was at 17.

All riding lessons, all critique etc is based on the perception of the instructor (or editor). They see something. They may attribute a different intent than you had. But what you need to realize is that they see a problem in a moment, and if your “intention” was different you still need to recognize there was a problem.

Video is great. I got video of a dressage test and it was an eye opener what the judge saw that I had not felt. Get a pivo or something.

Realize that it doesn’t matter “why” you reef on a horses mouth, he experiences it as punishment.

It’s absolutely normal that at this stage you are riding a bit defensively and feeling anxiety in unpredictable situations. Maybe you need more flat work, longe work, more time in the saddle outside of lessons to get over that anxiety.

I don’t know if your coach is a btch or not. Absolutely there will be moments with any coach where you feel you are “unfairly” critiqued over something “you didn’t mean to do.” If you have a decent adult relationship with your coach you can ask after the lesson “what should I do if this horse over jumps?” Most horses do not buck after they over jump. It’s not something I would expect on a horse being leased to a returning rider adult. So I think you are bringing your own anxiety to your riding.

4 Likes
#20

This. The whole post is spot on.

I will advocate for video again. It’s so enlightening and can really rocket your progress forward! I think we have all had the moment where we swore the horse threw a huge buck and it turns out to barely be a crowhop :sweat_smile:. Our bodies lie to us constantly, especially if we are anxious or have some adrenaline pumping.

Video is also really helpful to go back over with your coach! One trainer I rode with used to immediately video us if we were having a sticky moment - she said it skipped the “she said/she said discussion” and often got a lightbulb moment for the rider to see what the trainer is seeing. I have a chronically low left hand, but my coach pointing it out on video finally got me to believe her :joy:. Now it only gets low if I’m distracted, and I know what it feels like.

Anyway, I don’t think we have to push through a poor fit in a program. But I think it is hard to fit into ANY program until you(g) leave the Good Old Days in the past and try to work on the now.

5 Likes

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