Is this true?

[Madeline]

A poster in the H/J forum made a statement I find hard to believe. For context, this was on a thread discussing the rampant use of chemical “preparation” of show hunters.
Granted, I have been out of hunting for a while, but aced horses were pretty rare back then, and the idea of hunting a stoner gives me the creeps.

So is this statement really true in the field today?
" I have been involved with fox hunters on and off my whole life. I would say that roughly 1 in 10 do not give a couple cc of Ace when they hunt."

[tangledweb]

1 in 10 do not? Nobody is out there gathering accurate statistics, but that’s obvious nonsense.

I think it would be fair to say that it is not uncommon for people to give a horse a little when trying hunting the first time. Maybe 1 in 10 do with a new horse. I’ve never met anybody who does it on an ongoing basis.

[flyingchange]

Ace makes it possible for people who cannot ride (aka - most people out fox hunting) to think they can.

[Kodiak]

[QUOTE=flyingchange;8349461]
Ace makes it possible for people who cannot ride (aka - most people out fox hunting) to think they can.[/QUOTE]

I thought that’s what the flask was for…

[FitToBeTied]

[QUOTE=flyingchange;8349461]
Ace makes it possible for people who cannot ride (aka - most people out fox hunting) to think they can.[/QUOTE]

Wow! That’s a hell of a statement. I don’t know what kind of riding you do but I think being able to gallop and canter around natural terrain (e.g., hills, ditches, etc.) takes quite a bit of ability to ride. While it is not always pretty it is usually pretty effective.

I think of the hunts I’ve been with and I’ll take most people out hunting over those that stick to the show ring.

[Madeline]

[QUOTE=tangledweb;8349404]
1 in 10 do not? Nobody is out there gathering accurate statistics, but that’s obvious nonsense.

I think it would be fair to say that it is not uncommon for people to give a horse a little when trying hunting the first time. Maybe 1 in 10 do with a new horse. I’ve never met anybody who does it on an ongoing basis.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. That restores my faith. A little.

[Belmont]

Some people also use a little bump of Ace to help with tying up.

[Posting_Trot]

How does Ace help with tying up? Is Ace a muscle relaxant (showing that I know nothing about what it is, although I do have a sense of why people use it)?

[tangledweb]

[QUOTE=Posting Trot;8349747]
How does Ace help with tying up? Is Ace a muscle relaxant (showing that I know nothing about what it is, although I do have a sense of why people use it)?[/QUOTE]
I’d not heard of it as a preventative either but from https://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/articles/tying.htm

“Sedatives such as Acepromazine which causes sedation and relaxation by depressing the central nervous system, may be given to decrease the anxiety and spasms after the horse ties up. In some chronic cases, Acepromazine may be used in a preventative effort prior to exercise, to help promote vasodilatation or opening of the outlying blood vessels.”

[Hunter_s_Rest]

1. Your original question, you realize refers to ‘…prep for SHOW hunters …’ (not field hunters)
   that said
2. I’ve hunted 45 years and would say 1 in 10 tranq’ing horses is a little on the high side but, yes, some people do it.
   Some horses need a little to begin their career (or season) with and wean off.
   Some horses develop a need for it (I had a horse who was a perfect field hunter until he rose the ranks eventing and he became an orangatang, and he ended up needing it, every time out.)
   Some horses need it to prevent EIPH and tying up.
   Some horses never need it.
   and
3. I’ve ridden horses of every ^^ variety. You can’t really can’t ‘tell’ (except that the ones who sincerely need it behave!)
4. If giving a horse a small amount of a benign substance makes his day easier, and, therefore, the rider’s day easier, and, therefore, an overall positive, good experience, then by all means do it.
   I don’t think it is a muscle relaxer. My vet said hte reason it works on my horse with EIPH tendency is b/c it is a blood pressure reducer. That’s why it’d work for tying up.

[Madeline]

[QUOTE=Hunter’s Rest;8350054]

1. Your original question, you realize refers to ‘…prep for SHOW hunters …’ (not field hunters)
   that said
   .[/QUOTE]

The original quote specifically referred to field hunters. OP was trying to justify doping the show hunters into insensibility. Tradition, you know, the field hunters are all doped…

[Kodiak]

[QUOTE=Madeline;8349342]
So is this statement really true in the field today?
" I have been involved with fox hunters on and off my whole life. I would say that roughly 1 in 10 do not give a couple cc of Ace when they hunt."[/QUOTE]

In all seriousness, and not to re-ignite the Great Ace Wars, but–given the high percentage of riders who do not feel comfortable galloping and/or jumping cross country on a drugged horse–this statement doesn’t come close to passing the laugh test.

[beowulf]

There was a thread on Hunt forum a while back about greenie’s first time, I think - Ace was suggested.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with it the first time you take a horse out, provided you have done your homework in schooling and it is STRICTLY for the horse. But it’s a problem if it’s done every outing, or used as a crutch to hide rider insecurity.

[Gestalt]

I could see using the minimum to help a newbie, or a horses first time or two for the season, but if the horse needs a bit each time… maybe that horse should have a different job.

Just my two bits. I’ve done endurance rides with my ottb, but never foxhunted.

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=Madeline;8350062]
The original quote specifically referred to field hunters. OP was trying to justify doping the show hunters into insensibility. Tradition, you know, the field hunters are all doped…[/QUOTE]

Wow…you have an amazing way of twisting someone’s words, don’t you.

OP was not trying to justify doping show hunters into insensibility. She was stating that she feels that a cc of Ace or some of the calming pastes are far less worrisome than the trends of finding the new untestable drug or longing to death or options.

Your arguments would hold more weight if you avoided all the hyperbole.

[RPM]

Originally posted by Hunter’s Rest:

4. If giving a horse a small amount of a benign substance makes his day easier, and, therefore, the rider’s day easier, and, therefore, an overall positive, good experience, then by all means do it.

So Ace is sort of like a stirrup cup for some horses?

[KateDB]

The use of Ace in field hunters vs. show hunters, to me, is completely not able to be compared. And I am definitely NOT an advocate of every-time use of Ace in a field hunter, but certainly it can be helpful in starting a new horse, transitioning a horse to a new rider, knocking off the cobwebs at the start of the season, and/or any of the excellent reasons Hunters Rest mentioned above.
THE HUGE difference is that a field hunter is not be judged or shown against other horses. I do not understand drugging horses that are competing. It makes an unlevel playing field. Is the drugged horse truly better in that class than the undrugged horse? I’m particularly baffled by the folks who only compete in exhibition classes (hunt night) or local shows because they know their horses won’t be tested and they have no problem administering several cc’s of Ace to compete against others. If you want to know whether your horse is good, show at a level where you are subjected to testing without your crutch.

In general, (and I’m aware there are reasonable exceptions), I think most any horse who needs to drugged each time to do it’s job is being asked to do the wrong job or being ridden by the wrong rider.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=RPM;8350287]
So Ace is sort of like a stirrup cup for some horses?[/QUOTE]

more likely their riders. At least the ones I’ve known who gave it as SOP.

On one cc of Ace…most horses will blow right though that as soon as the hounds are released and not feel it at all. Ace is NOT an effective tranq as soon as a horse has a touch of adrenaline in their system but a RIDER may act more relaxed thinking it is helping the horse…and THAT has more of an effect than the ace.

[BeastieSlave]

Ha-ha! As a fairly recent convert to fox hunting from hunterland with my TB (also new to fox hunting) I’ll say that it never entered my mind to drug my guy before a hunt - not even the first one!! Problems we had in the field were just things we needed to work on, not things he needed to be drugged to avoid.
I’d be surprised to learn that 1 in 10 of the folks I hunt with were using ace…

[Bogie]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8350502]

On one cc of Ace…most horses will blow right though that as soon as the hounds are released and not feel it at all. Ace is NOT an effective tranq as soon as a horse has a touch of adrenaline in their system but a RIDER may act more relaxed thinking it is helping the horse…and THAT has more of an effect than the ace.[/QUOTE]

The way a vet described it to me is that you must give ace BEFORE the horse becomes excited or it will not have a calming effect. Once the Adrenalin is flowing it’s too late.

I know folks who give just a half cc or one cc of ace before hunting. Mostly to get through the first cast without a lot of fireworks. Most horses settle down after the first gallop but the first few minutes can be exciting. BTW, I’ve spoken to several vets who have no problem with riders who want to give low doses of Ace to use in this way. It’s not something I would encourage, but used in moderation or, as mentioned above, for horses that just need some help at the beginning of the season, I don’t think it’s a huge deal.

My TB runs like crazy when his pasture mate is taken out to ride and to keep him from hurting himself (which he’s done) he usually gets 1 or 1.5 ccs of Ace about half an hour before she leaves. If it’s given before he’s excited, he’s pretty mellow. The owner of the other horse is a vet and she and I discussed strategies for keeping him safe and calm and this is what works best.