I am pony shopping. I have come across all of the above registries in my perusing. I’ve also seen ponies listed as “half-RPSI” registered. All of this seems very confusing.
What is the difference in all of these registries? Is one more selective than another?
Finally, to call a pony a German Riding Pony, what are the requirements?
This should give you a good overview of the definition and registration of German Riding Pony: http://www.germanridingpony.com/the-german-riding-pony.html I’m going to guess that “half RPSI” means sire or dam is RPSI and the other half is not accepted for registration. Sometimes this type of breeding is eligible for a COP, and you would have to decide if that is okay.<br><br>Whether one registry is more selective than another is an argument that goes on in warmblood registries. I do believe that in the regular warmblood registries, some are more selective than others. I’m sure that applies as well to German Riding Ponies.<br><br>ISR-Old is not a German registry, so technically they don’t have a German Riding Pony division but they probably have a pony division. Weser-Ems is the Oldenburg Horse Breeding Society’s German Riding Pony division.
We have ponies for sale right now that are ISR/Oldenburg, RPSI or Weser-Ems registered. If you go to each of the Registry websites, they have the requirements listed in order for mares and stallions to be approved with each registry and what requirements are needed in order for foals to be registered.
Both the Oldenburg GOV (Weser-Ems) and RPSI inspect, approve and register ponies for their German Riding Pony studbooks. We have a German Westphalian Verband pony who is entered into their German Riding Pony studbook. ISR/Oldenburg ponies go into their Sport Pony studbook.
Having hosted inspections for the Weser-Ems, RPSI, ISR/Oldenburg and Westphalian Verband, the Weser-Ems is strictly looking for dressage type or jumper type horses & ponies. They do not recognize or care for the hunter type. RPSI and ISR/Oldenburg looks for the same, but do also recognize hunter type, as does the Westphalian Verband. Though, I will say that I find the ISR/Oldenburg tends to be the most lenient in what they will let in and what they will not.
Daventry, thanks for this! I’m interested in a mare who’s registered and branded ISR/Old. Sire is a registered Oldenburg stallion (of the ISR variety), dam is Welsh, Section B. Is it incorrect to call her a GRP? If I resold, would her brand/registration be considered less desirable than, say a pony registered Weser-Ems, RPSI or half-RPSI with equivalent training/show record?
[QUOTE=duecavalle;8904288]
Is it incorrect to call her a GRP? If I resold, would her brand/registration be considered less desirable than, say a pony registered Weser-Ems, RPSI or half-RPSI with equivalent training/show record?[/QUOTE]
Yes and yes. She is a Half Welsh/Oldenburg registered as a Sport Pony.
[QUOTE=Daventry;8904412]
Yes and yes. She is a Half Welsh/Oldenburg registered as a Sport Pony.[/QUOTE]
Ive also seen Welsh/TB crosses registered with RPSI referred to as GRP, but there’s not really anything German about them. I’d think an F1 Oldenburg cross that goes back to Hanoverian lines would be more of a “German” pony? I’m sorry if this sounds inflammatory, I assure you it’s not. I’m just trying to wrap my brain around all of it. 
Check with Honeylips…
I have a GRP that’s registered RPSI. Oldenburg x 1/2 welsh pony. But he won’t technically be a pony considering he’s almost 15hh and still growing.
[QUOTE=duecavalle;8904440]
Ive also seen Welsh/TB crosses registered with RPSI referred to as GRP, but there’s not really anything German about them. I’d think an F1 Oldenburg cross that goes back to Hanoverian lines would be more of a “German” pony? I’m sorry if this sounds inflammatory, I assure you it’s not. I’m just trying to wrap my brain around all of it. :)[/QUOTE]
I think it’s easier if you think of it as a “group/type” then a breed. (e.g. “working dog group.”) There are quite a few warmblood societies that use and share blood from other registries. My Canadian TB is able to have fully registered Dutch, Swedish, RPSI and Oldenburg registered foals (depending on the sire). The foal will obviously not actually be European. She was approved for their “types,” as most of the open stud book registries are set up.
“Pony breeds accepted into the RPSI pony stud books include German and other national Riding Ponies, such as the British, French, Austrian and Swiss; Welsh sections B, C and D, Connemara, New Forest Pony, as well as small warmbloods, Thoroughbreds, Arabians, and Anglo-Arabians. Stallions may be graded into Pony Stud Book I (Approved) or II (Recorded), depending on scores, performance results and pedigree.” - From RPSI handbook. So it’s easy to see how two non-german ponies could make a german sportpony under the RPSI masthead.
Here is the the link to the USDF article I wrote on German Riding ponies. It has all of the history of the ponies/verbands and what constitutes a GRP.
A WB/Pony cross (regardless of german horse origins) does not equal GRP - it is a sport pony. There is nothing wrong with sport ponies but they are not GRP.
A GRP is a pony with an approved pedigree and entered into one of the German studbooks (or their USA affiliates) that meets the breed and pedigree and approval standards for reciprocity in Germany. In the USA there are 3 studbooks that have this agreement and issue papers to ponies that are the same as the papers issued in Germany- Weser Ems, RPSI (full papers) and Westfalen.
She would be considered a Sport Pony or WB/Pony cross but not a GRP as neither of her parents are approved for breeding with a GRP verband or USA affiliate
[QUOTE=duecavalle;8904288]
Daventry, thanks for this! I’m interested in a mare who’s registered and branded ISR/Old. Sire is a registered Oldenburg stallion (of the ISR variety), dam is Welsh, Section B. Is it incorrect to call her a GRP? If I resold, would her brand/registration be considered less desirable than, say a pony registered Weser-Ems, RPSI or half-RPSI with equivalent training/show record?[/QUOTE]
She would be considered a USA Sport Pony or WB/Pony cross as neither of her parents are approved for or included in any of the GRP studbooks or their USA affiliates. From the GRP breeder point of view it would be incorrect to refer to her as a GRP.
Question… How do height requirements work with the different German Riding Pony registries? For instance, if you breed a GOV approved Warmblood mare to an approved and licensed Weser Ems stallion, and get a lovely 15.2 or 15.3 hand horse… Does that pose any problem for registering Weser Ems? Do tall offspring by licensed pony stallions ever make it back into the Horse stud books?
OP is she also registered half Welsh? I personally would be more interested in the half Welsh registry than the ISR.
[QUOTE=Virginia Horse Mom;8906695]
Question… How do height requirements work with the different German Riding Pony registries? For instance, if you breed a GOV approved Warmblood mare to an approved and licensed Weser Ems stallion, and get a lovely 15.2 or 15.3 hand horse… Does that pose any problem for registering Weser Ems? Do tall offspring by licensed pony stallions ever make it back into the Horse stud books?[/QUOTE]
papers are issued as foals and height is not a consideration. The pony books are full of oversize ponies. Happens all the time.
No once the papers are issued as “pony” they don’t get the option to move into the horse books ever. Only one set of registration papers are ever issued and those at as a foal. Any oversized ones sired by GRP stallions wouldn’t be eligible for the horse books as the pony stallions are not approved by the horse books. No reciprocity.
Virginia Horse Mom…what honeylips said. 
The easiest way to look at it, once pony blood gets introduced into the bloodline, that particular horse or pony can never be reintroduced back into the “horse” studbooks. The horse or pony in question, and any offspring, must remain in the pony books.
LOL Virginiabred…you, like all of us Welsh breeders should be accustomed to that, once a cob always a cob…LOL. Thank you for chiming in honeylips. I learned some things I didn’t know.
OP I would agree with the greater interest in the half-welsh aspect especially if there is jumping talent. The training for the same with show miles will also gain you more value. Being a breeder of Welsh and those with FEI dressage miles, I can tell you that they will NEVER bring the same dollar as an equally talented/experienced warmblood of any distinguished European registry. I sold a proven FEI welsh purebred for $8000. He had earned my silver for me, was completely sound (still is at age 18) and went on to earn his current owner her silver. There was no maintenance requirements and he was solid in every way. Non- ‘of the blood’ typically just isn’t going to bring the same dollar…especially if pony. Training will gain you a little extra value but not to the same degree.
[QUOTE=duecavalle;8904288]
Daventry, thanks for this! I’m interested in a mare who’s registered and branded ISR/Old. Sire is a registered Oldenburg stallion (of the ISR variety), dam is Welsh, Section B. Is it incorrect to call her a GRP? If I resold, would her brand/registration be considered less desirable than, say a pony registered Weser-Ems, RPSI or half-RPSI with equivalent training/show record?[/QUOTE]
I think Honeylips covered most of it, but I am curious about this statement:
“I’m interested in a mare who’s registered and branded ISR/Old”.
Is she branded ISR, or ONA?
I also wanted to add regarding Weser-Ems - that studbook (Pferdestammbuch Weser Ems) is sort of like an umbrella organization for many different breeds of ponies and (mostly) small horses. They maintain separate studbooks for German Riding Ponies, Small German Riding Horses, Welsh Ponies of all flavors, Shetland Ponies, Dartmoor Ponies, New Forest Ponies, Haflingers, German Classic Ponies, Fell Ponies, Knabstruppers, Fjords, and Friesians (in addition to a few others).
WE maintains a very close cooperation with Oldenburger Pferdezuchtverband (the Oldenburg Verband), including operating out of the same office in Vechta, Germany. It is managed in North America by The Oldenburg Horse Breeders Society, and WE inspections are conducted at the same times and locations as the OHBS inspections. In North America, they inspect mostly for the studbooks for Deutsche Reitpony (German Riding Pony), Kleines Deutsche Reitford (Small German Riding Horse), and the occasional Haflinger.
OP - it is possible the mare could go into a lower mare book with WE, and her foals by approved stallions could receive WE papers, but since she herself is already registered ISR, she is - as Honeylips stated - an “American Sport Pony”, and not a GRP.
But if she is successful in sport, her registration status may not matter to a buyer, unless said buyer was specifically looking to breed her for GRPs.
[QUOTE=honeylips;8906768]
papers are issued as foals and height is not a consideration. The pony books are full of oversize ponies. Happens all the time.
No once the papers are issued as “pony” they don’t get the option to move into the horse books ever. Only one set of registration papers are ever issued and those at as a foal. Any oversized ones sired by GRP stallions wouldn’t be eligible for the horse books as the pony stallions are not approved by the horse books. No reciprocity.[/QUOTE]
WE sometimes places foals in the Kleines Deutsche Reitford studbook, if both parents are “large” for the Deutsche Reitpony Book. For instance, if a 15.3h warmblood mare is bred to a top of the standard GRP stallion, it is a pretty safe bet that the foal will go “oversize” for the Deutsche Reitpony Book, which is generally 13.2h to 14.3h. Kleines Deutsche Reitford, OTOH, are generally 14.3h - 15.1h. (Caveat: heights are converted from cm, so give or take a few fractions of an inch on either side). But again - papers are issued as foals, so even if the offspring ends up oversize, it isn’t an issue.
Thanks for the detailed explanations on height, and how these German Riding Pony books work. So if I am reading everything correctly, once you add pony blood in… Even a nice 16 hand mare is not going to be approved for the GOV main mare book again. But she may be approved for more Weser Ems breeding - even though she’s tall.
Personally, I have a friend who recently bred a GOV mare (by birth registry and approval - the same mare was also approved for Weser Ems breeding) to a nice riding pony stallion (I believe he’s approved Weser Ems). The resulting weanling is AWESOME… And probably going to top out around 15.2 or 15.3. A gelding, so papers and approval aren’t of the same concern as if it had been a filly. I was curious about how registration and marketability works for something like that though.
Personally, I love the idea of a really well bred athletic 15.1 to 15.2 hand dressage horse. Something built uphill with awesome movement… Just not 17 hands! But I am short with short legs …
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