Menu

Stay in Touch
Sign up for ENews
Subscribe Now

Unlimited access >

Menu

It keeps getting better.... and then there was Asmussen

Racing
#81

[QUOTE=Pronzini;3330555]
I guess you missed John Sadler on the radio this past weekend. He basically said “give me European racing and I’ll be happy to abide by European rules.”
IOW, apples and oranges Blueshadow. You cannot compare the European product with the American and making the US compare would revamp the whole racing calendar and change the nature of the sport over here. Maybe that’s a good thing but I don’t know how anyone reasonably does it.[/QUOTE]

Sadler’s a horseman. Who also uses a fair amount of medication. If we are all on a level playing field, we’ll all abide by it. Right now the level playing field is use legal medications. Keeping up with the neighbors. Gotta do it.

#82

[QUOTE=loriandlobo;3330133]
:lol::lol::lol::lol:By the way, how many years did this horse of “yours” race and what’s he doing now? All horses bleed, haha, that’s a good one!!![/QUOTE]

Still running. He’s 5. Still sound:eek:
And he gets a monthly dose of Equipoise. Gosh he ought to be snapping one off any day now

#83

[QUOTE=Chiniko;3331334]
If we are all on a level playing field, we’ll all abide by it. Right now the level playing field is use legal medications. Keeping up with the neighbors. Gotta do it.[/QUOTE]

Sadly, this is true.

#84

Pronzi it’s a great game and though people love to abuse medications, the legal ones are legal for a reason. Withdrawl times are established for a reason. KY changed their race day med rules for a reason and they were right to do so. Though I have to admit I quite enjoyed race day bute. BUT by the same token, I am glad they increased the w/d time. It was very necessary. People did abuse the rule to the detriment of the horse. That’s unfortunate.
The last horse I had breakdown was 4 ears ago. I train safe. My motto is horses need to improve as they train. Medications are theraputic. I take some. I’m sore and arthritic and old ish. I don’t take them so I can pound on myself I take them to reduce inflamation. I have zero problems backing off of a horse. And giving time when needed. So many people don’t. Horses shouldn’t “depreciate” they should maintain or improve. Of course wear and tear will occur, but we can lesten the depreciation factor. I watch certain people do hard things daily. I don’t agree with it. I will medicate like everyone else until told otherwise. I don’t use robaxin, can’t remember the last time I had one tie up, Hydrate, polyglycan, the odd horse on a course of Adequan, Hate Dantrium, give lasix and bute within the allowed time. Never had a bad test. Hate injecting joints, will do IRAP before ever going to rapid acting cortisone. We don’t do anything fancy. We just win races. And look after our horses as best we can. If I couldn’t justify or feel good about training horses, I simply wouldn’t do it. BUT my horses are good. They are sound. And well cared for. And they train solidly through the bridle. I love that! I will never be on a witch hunt against lasix or clenbuterol, or theraputic medications. Athletes have aches and pains. And believe you me, we work our butts off to keep the horses good.

#85

[QUOTE=DickHertz;3331377]
Sadly, this is true.[/QUOTE]

I don’t disagree, Dick.

#86

To heck with the neighbors. I know everytime my horse goes out he’s at a disadvantage because of NO medication except 3 cc Lasix. We may not win every time but that’s ok. 2nd and 3rd still pays AND it makes me so much more proud of my horse because I know he’s running on his own merit. To me, racing is about how much me and my horse can improve as individuals. I wouldn’t trade him for all the more successful drugged up horses out there. We entered this “sport” with honor and integrity and that’s how we will go out. There is no gray area for us.:):slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Chiniko;3331334]
Sadler’s a horseman. Who also uses a fair amount of medication. If we are all on a level playing field, we’ll all abide by it. Right now the level playing field is use legal medications. Keeping up with the neighbors. Gotta do it.[/QUOTE]

#87

[QUOTE=Pronzini;3330555]
I guess you missed John Sadler on the radio this past weekend. He basically said “give me European racing and I’ll be happy to abide by European rules.”

IOW, apples and oranges Blueshadow. You cannot compare the European product with the American and making the US compare would revamp the whole racing calendar and change the nature of the sport over here. Maybe that’s a good thing but I don’t know how anyone reasonably does it.[/QUOTE]

It is not only the European product though Pronzini - it is the Asian, the Australasian, the British, the South African… As I said, only in North America does this stuff permeate racing.

And, although it makes me a little nervous to say it here;) I would be happy to see the sport in this country convert completely - the pecuniary costs notwithstanding. I’m not sure what people think this means exactly? Training practices change? There is a “flat” season and horses are rested for part of the year? Surfaces are predominantly (although this is not so true in Asia) turf, and AWT? I wonder what perceptions of the changes needed to accomodate an even playing field of NO drugs are exactly? In any case - the point is, we need to consider how reasonably to do it. The industry ain’t gonna survive in the current (and probably harsher future) political clime without doing that, IMHO. In fact, I would go further and say that the industry is missing out on a huge PR boon by not considering how to do it asap, some current efforts apart…

John Sadler at least, I will say, is extraordinary for his concern for racehorse aftercare. One of the better ones. But I did miss the interview…

#88

I used to think safety issues had the potential to kill off racing but that doesn’t explain Del Mar. For years, it had the worst record in California. People I respect will not run there because of the issues with the track. Others held their breath and went for the money and prestige. Scores of horses died every meet. I saw a few and it sickened me. Even with poly, things are not perfect by the sea especially with regards to hind end injuries. This year the powers that be will experiment and water it.

And you know what? It doesn’t matter. Horses died the previous day–the track was SRO the next day. It’s a place to see and be seen and few cared what was going on out on the track. Even when the local newspaper ran that day to day death watch that they had going.

But its not a year round plant and that explains its popularity and that of Saratoga. There’s pent up demand for the product even if in Del Mar’s case the product came with a high mortality rate for horses.

In this setting, we are acutely aware of horse safety and mortality. Out there I’m not so sure. Newspaper reporters and PETA protesters do not always reflect the general public.

#89

Yes, Del Mar is a zoo no matter what, I agree. And it will be this year, despite all of the horrors of the past couple of years, because it’s a PARTY, a San Diego social event, filled with many people who don’t attend horseracing for the rest of the year.

But Santa Anita and Hollywood Park are definitly not zoos! And with Barretts numbers over the past year being atrocious - you saw the June sale comparison to last year, as well as the mixed sales and yearling results - well, I’m not sure how much of it is trend and how much is purely temporary, due to the economy, but what I do know is that owners and breeders are investing and selling less. In CA - there is clearly a “problem”, both in demand for racing by the public, track attendance etc., and now in the demand for horses from owners. It’s a shrinking industry. I’m not sure whether I hate that or love it. But I do believe that is a fact (gambling revenues apart of course).

I’m not saying that improving safety and horse welfare are the only ways to promote the industry to prospective racing fans, or to fans that have been turned off. But I do think that by resisting public pressure (and I would characterize that public pressure as being much broader than simply a handful of journalists and PETA) to improve horse welfare, by being defensive, rather than taking the bull by the horns and saying “we’re gonna put the horse, our income earner, first” in various ways - the industry is shooting itself in the foot.

JMHO;)

#90

I absolutely agree with Blueshadow.

For those of you who’ve always been around racing, and/or directly involved in racing, much of what is horrifying to the general public is just business as usual to you. Many of us are appalled at the casual use of steroids, anabolic or otherwise; yet, racing people seem to look upon steroids as a sort of vitamin pill or B-12 shot for your equine athletes. Breakdowns? Pah. Gotta expect it.

Someone here said once that I was never a racing fan, and at first, I disagreed. But she was right on. What I am is a raceHORSE fan and a go-down-the-road HORSE fan. Always have been, always will be more concerned with the horses than with poor so & so who is suspended for one stupid act or another involving the horses.

And, as a HORSE fan, I am part of a large group; a larger group than the shrinking racing industry. We want horse welfare, horse safety, and respect for the magnificent animal who makes YOUR livings. I honestly believe you need to pay attention to public sentiment. And, don’t be confused about which member of your team the public finds most important. Not that we don’t like and admire (some of) you, too. But it really is about the horses.

#91

[QUOTE=Florida Fan;3330719]
It is quite easy to see which of you has really made a living actually racing horses for A. any length of time, and that would be a decade at least. B. Being absolutely in charge of the horses that race, and not just one or two, but a stable of many, in many different categories. C. Many different states. D. Really knowledgeable about the body chemistry and the meds given/allowed. E. Training just “your own” and /or having a public racing stable. Lasix is pretty much accepted as a positive medication, and whichever of you said “we give jugs after the races”—takes care of the fluids/electrolytes lost during race. As for liver damage—that would be more closely related to administration of cortico-steriods on a regular basis. You all know that ANSAIDs are safer in that respect, even with the show horses, and humans. Some heart patients take lasix every day. All are entitled to an opinion, but until you are in the game making a living as the trainer responsible for all aspects of the horse, you are, for the most part, merely speculating.[/QUOTE]

And how is the body chemistry of a North American horse different from the body chemistry of a horse in Europe, Australia, Japan, UAE or Hong Kong?

#92

[QUOTE=loriandlobo;3331862]
To heck with the neighbors. I know everytime my horse goes out he’s at a disadvantage because of NO medication except 3 cc Lasix. We may not win every time but that’s ok. 2nd and 3rd still pays AND it makes me so much more proud of my horse because I know he’s running on his own merit. To me, racing is about how much me and my horse can improve as individuals. I wouldn’t trade him for all the more successful drugged up horses out there. We entered this “sport” with honor and integrity and that’s how we will go out. There is no gray area for us.:):)[/QUOTE]

I have to say I am thrilled for you that you are independently wealthy and can afford to train your own horse and do things your way. Fantastic for you! We, as a whole, take great care of horses, don’t take stupid risks with the lives of others and horses.
We do win races. the horses are great, happy and running through the bridle. They retire with some juice left in their joints and in reusable shape whatever that might be.
I personally find it amusing to watch the people in specific states that are now adding the steroids to their list of no no’s. Good for them! It will be interesting to see who goes from super trainer to very ordinary, and how the ordinary might just take up the the super trainer roll as they have been training without all along. The summer could be very interesting. Perhaps a changing of the guard?
Could be very interesting indeed
As for the summer meets. It’s my personal opinion that the change in surface causes some soundness issues and some of the breakdowns. You ship from one track to a very different surface maybe train a couple days, work or run shortly there after. Their bodies need time to adjust to surface changes. Bone density changes, stresses for soft tissue change. It’s rigorous and demanding on them physically.

#93

My horse vet came from a tb breeding facility. (He was crazy nuts about tbs!) His take on the artificial surfaces (when they were mandated in CA) was that they would help prevent breakdowns, but only until the breeders and/or training facilities changed over from dirt to artificial. He believed that the dirt tracks toughened up their legs and bones. Does that pov match what you’re seeing at the tracks you work?

#94

I think that bone density is created to some extent by surface. And perhaps not all sythetics are created the same. Which is best? Who bloody knows!
The CHRB is madating synthetic and now medications due to public outcry rather than actual fact.
Eight Belles did npt break down due to the use of steroids and Big Brown did not loose the Triple Crown because he in the middle of his trainer’s “pinacle of his career” type race series changed his (the horse’s) medication policy or regim.
People have so much blown out of proprtion! Horses get an infintecimal amount of Winstol by comparison to human weight lifters. And in all honesty, again Winstrol is the “baby” of the hormones that are given. Equipoise is fatr more broadly used and more powerful. I would take Dutrow’s comment’s as BB didn’t get Winstol. I would belive him 110%. Most of his comments regarding BB and his medication were in jest or misleading to those not in the industry on a day to day basis. He could lead the media any which way, because they are only familliar with winstrol, not equipoise or plain old testoserone. ALL are readily available and used consistantly, Heck even CleNbuterol has anabolic properties.
The CHRB has moved rapidly toward things that they have little to no actual proof about, Things Like surface that have not saved the horseman any horses, the breeder’s any money, the gambler is loosing their ass and if I am correct we feed very much off of the gambler. The surfaces are VERY different form place to place, from surface to surface, to environment to environment.
Kind of simillar to people saying you cannot talk on your cel phone but you can still text… makes no sense. ONE is the lesser of two evils and they are hunting the wrong thing. Might be part of an equation, but not the whole and Maybe just maybe it is the tip of the iceberg, but really when has anyone in this industry ever really paid for their sins?
The use of Winstrol may or may not prove to be a witch hunt for more powerful.
We the people believe that certain very successful people will continue to push the envelope and have continued success, while others will pull all of it and loose clients to the still using trainers. Seriously, Biancone got caught with Snake Venom and how long is his suspension? Is there any real proof that he is really out of the game or is he micro managing through his golf buddies… Jason Orman comes to mind. Nice guy but who is gonna give him a horse of the one that is in tomorrow ability. Remember what he did not accomplish with Rock Hard Ten?
Race tracks are what they are. They are either well maintained or they aren’t they either have contientious horsemen training on them or they don’t. For years as an exercise rider I put my life and well being in someone else’s hands. I have alot of broken bones and some very sad stories as a result. We all know who will kill one without a thought and we know who won’t. It’s the guys that won’t that deserve a metal in my mind and the f’er’s that will that should be run off. Not all trainers are created equally. Sad but true.

#95

Without gambling there would be no racing. If you are just a fan and have never been nor ever will be a player, getting your support does nothing. Sorry, but it’s true. Attendance has been down since the 70’s. OTBs and online wagering have changed the complexities. There is nothing wrong with being a fan, but respect the fact that your support is irrelevant to the life of the sport. Lowering takeout, larger fields, and eliminating unfair play attracts more players.

#96

I love gamblers. Though in hind sight I don’t know if I would have married one… hindsight

#97

miss critic, correct me if I’m being too black and white in my assesment, but are you saying that gamblers are unconcerned with the welfare of the horses unless it impacts their bottom lines? If, unless the real possibility of the death of the racer/gladiator makes it more exciting to the gamblers, why don’t they just stick to 21 or roulette? Or the lottery?

Regardless, I understand what you’re saying about the purses and other benefits coming from the gamblers, but I would think that racing and horse fans would certainly help to keep the tracks open. They could and would also urge our governments to “do something” about abuses, donate money to welfare groups who might not care about the gamblers or the owners/trainers, and make life less than happy for your industry.

Gamblers can and do bet on anything. They don’t need racing to provide the adrenaline rush.

#98

I do disagree with that. Gamblers are also not created equal. Not all gamblers have to play horses at every track, play lotto, go to vegas, bet on pro sports. My husband plays only horses and at specific tracks our “home tracks” Occasionally if there is a big carryover somewhere he delves in, But he is selective. Of course not selective enough for me when he’s on a bad run, like now. If he bet sports or vegas or whatever, I am sure I wouldn’t be around to support his butt for very long. Gambling can be a job, but it goes in cycles. When you are up you are up, when you are down, the hole gets deeper.

#99

Chiniko, what will your husband and others in the same line do should racing be abolished or strictly curtailed in the US? (Not to say I think that’s around the corner.) Would they find another sport or another way to make a living?

#100

[QUOTE=I’m EBO;3341123]
Chiniko, what will your husband and others in the same line do should racing be abolished or strictly curtailed in the US? (Not to say I think that’s around the corner.) Would they find another sport or another way to make a living?[/QUOTE]

Sigh… I suppose I would continue to support his sorry butt… he has no skills… Horse raceing family… He’s screwed if it ever came to that

Get your Digital Subscription here - only $21.95 / year

Subscribe here
See gift options

Sign up to our monthly newsletter!

By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.

Copyright © 2023 The Chronicle of the Horse