If we could all just agree to share a common contempt for the following:
Anyone of English descent or currently considered English
New England residents
Amish everywhere
and every place in the US that is NOT considered ‘southern’ and therefore ‘genteel’. You know who you people are, right?
what a wonderful place it would be, right?
[QUOTE=fivehorses;5061126]
Moderator, with all due respect, I do hope you monitor this thread for the defaming character assinations that seem to continue from a few select individuals. I also would appreciate you editing those posts that continually call into question the health and welfare of EFF horses.
By allowing these type of attacks to continue, it seems that COTH is condoning this behavior(bullying).
It is apparent to some COTH’ers that there is a select group of individuals who are allowed to bully people off these boards. I certainly do not think the publisher would condone or appreciate that this is happening on a forum that is meant to help horse people to communicate and educate.
I appreciate your post asking for peace, and hopefully continued monitoring of individuals who seem to incite issues, as well as bully/defame a targeted poster. I have seen posts in other threads where inflamatory remarks were edited, yet it seems that some posters are granted higher tolerance than others and allowed to post at will, regardless of their inflamatory statements.
It isn’t easy being a moderator, and I do appreciate all that you do. But, I also think that I will be a pesty poster pm’img you in the future of posts that are destructive or have a tone of libel. It only brings down the esteem of The Chronicle of The Horse to have these kinds of posts not addressed. It hasn’t been too difficult to figure out who is in this ‘group’ that seem to have a gang mentality and will be ever watchful of any personal attacks they wage. I am sure you would also appreciate the help in eliminating this behavior as well. thank you.[/QUOTE] That would be a good posting BUT excuse me if I’m somewhat cynical about your motivation, purpose and intent.
Talk of “respect and consideration and inflammatory remarks” and “attacking” is coming across as somewhat hypocritical and disingenuous considering your bigotry and prejudicial stereotype and discrimination when it comes to “The English”.
That and stereotypes about the Amish community are distasteful and inflammatory prejudicial attack.
You want to talk about skinny horses and feeding for condition then go there but inciting to disliking whole communities with inflammatory and untrue stereotyping will always get me hot under the collar. It doesn’t need to be you slagging off the English either. I’ll seek the defend any religious creed, colour, race, minority persuasion or nation from such awful stuff! You do know don’t you that sort of hate talk contributed to the most dreadful targeted campaign of bombing and terrorism in the United Kingdom and in Ireland.
You definitely need to take that sort of talk to the toilet tray you keep mentioning and seem to know so well. It’s got no place on a modern internet forum with members of all persuasions and diversities.
Also agree - Good post fivehorses.
[QUOTE=Moderator 1;5061055]
Let’s all please tone it down. First, please avoid adding further dramatics to this thread by introducing discussion about various cultural stereotypes, etc.
It’s fine to discuss different feeding and care strategies with the OP, while appreciating the story of her horse’s reunion with her previous partner, but please keep things productive and geared toward helping each other and the horses under our care.
Thanks,
Mod 1[/QUOTE]
Thank you for your post Moderator 1. 
Great Post!!!
[QUOTE=fivehorses;5061126]
Moderator, with all due respect, I do hope you monitor this thread for the defaming character assinations that seem to continue from a few select individuals. I also would appreciate you editing those posts that continually call into question the health and welfare of EFF horses.
By allowing these type of attacks to continue, it seems that COTH is condoning this behavior(bullying).
It is apparent to some COTH’ers that there is a select group of individuals who are allowed to bully people off these boards. I certainly do not think the publisher would condone or appreciate that this is happening on a forum that is meant to help horse people to communicate and educate.
I appreciate your post asking for peace, and hopefully continued monitoring of individuals who seem to incite issues, as well as bully/defame a targeted poster. I have seen posts in other threads where inflamatory remarks were edited, yet it seems that some posters are granted higher tolerance than others and allowed to post at will, regardless of their inflamatory statements.
It isn’t easy being a moderator, and I do appreciate all that you do. But, I also think that I will be a pesty poster pm’img you in the future of posts that are destructive or have a tone of libel. It only brings down the esteem of The Chronicle of The Horse to have these kinds of posts not addressed. It hasn’t been too difficult to figure out who is in this ‘group’ that seem to have a gang mentality and will be ever watchful of any personal attacks they wage. I am sure you would also appreciate the help in eliminating this behavior as well. thank you.[/QUOTE]
Great post Fivehorses-- You expressed my thoughts exactly, or maybe even better than:) I could have under the circumstances.
Getting back on track- Does anyone have a “reunion” story to share?
I was hoping, when I originally posted, to spark an exchange of “reunion” stories. So how about it? Have you experienced a reunion with a horse you had “lost track of” or have you been witness to such a reunion?
If so, please share your story. Unfortunately, the horses are unable to post their versions- they just can’t type well with those big hooves.:lol: so we will have to content ourselves with hearing only from the humans involved. Thanks.
EFF, very sweet original story. :yes:
I’m very glad you found a farrier who does drafts. I think many folks who don’t have drafts don’t realize how very, very difficult it can be to find a farrier willing to do drafts. It’s not that drafties really need special draft farriers or anything, it’s just that most farriers don’t want to do them–and honestly, it’s a lot more work, and I don’t really blame them.
I worked with Perchies for some years, and we payed quite a surcharge to get farriers to do them. A number of the horses on the farm were, well, not quite “rescues” but definitely “interventions”, who arrived with health and behavior issues (and as you know, everything is bigger with drafts, even their issues). Holding up feet for the farrier seemed like a confounding training issue, and we even built stocks, but they caused more problems in some regards.
[QUOTE=monicabee;5059935]
With drafts and draft crosses PPSM is a consideration, isn’t it? Not to suggest that Dixie is suffering from that, but I am thinking of a Perch I knew some years ago who was a bear to shoe because he had a very hard time holding up his hind feet for any length of time and had to be sedated. [/QUOTE]
Yep. In the early 2000s, and after we had huge success with a “poster mare” for EPSM/PSSM after she went on Dr. Valentine’s recommended diet, we–with approval from our vets–put all the drafts on the EPSM diet. They all improved (energy, stamina, weight regulation). It was amazing. Turned out the ones that were difficult to shoe (in terms of not holding their feet up) weren’t difficult because they wouldn’t hold their feet up, but because they couldn’t. :sadsmile:
Since then the vets in that practice have encouraged feeding all drafts and draftX as though they have EPSM. It doesn’t hurt them, and it helps a great many.
[QUOTE=citydog;5061548]
EFF, very sweet original story. :yes:
I’m very glad you found a farrier who does drafts. I think many folks who don’t have drafts don’t realize how very, very difficult it can be to find a farrier willing to do drafts. It’s not that drafties really need special draft farriers or anything, it’s just that most farriers don’t want to do them–and honestly, it’s a lot more work, and I don’t really blame them.
I worked with Perchies for some years, and we payed quite a surcharge to get farriers to do them. A number of the horses on the farm were, well, not quite “rescues” but definitely “interventions”, who arrived with health and behavior issues (and as you know, everything is bigger with drafts, even their issues). Holding up feet for the farrier seemed like a confounding training issue, and we even built stocks, but they caused more problems in some regards.
Yep. In the early 2000s, and after we had huge success with a “poster mare” for EPSM/PSSM after she went on Dr. Valentine’s recommended diet, we–with approval from our vets–put all the drafts on the EPSM diet. They all improved (energy, stamina, weight regulation). It was amazing. Turned out the ones that were difficult to shoe (in terms of not holding their feet up) weren’t difficult because they wouldn’t hold their feet up, but because they couldn’t. :sadsmile:
Since then the vets in that practice have encouraged feeding all drafts and draftX as though they have EPSM. It doesn’t hurt them, and it helps a great many.[/QUOTE]
echo, but as there is always a but, as had to go somewhere earlier it should be known that when one has a horse that might be or is undweight ok, one has to feed a horse up before one puts it to work, other wise one is just running the weight off
Thanks for your post -and info an diet benefits
[QUOTE=citydog;5061548]
EFF, very sweet original story. :yes:
I’m very glad you found a farrier who does drafts. I think many folks who don’t have drafts don’t realize how very, very difficult it can be to find a farrier willing to do drafts. It’s not that drafties really need special draft farriers or anything, it’s just that most farriers don’t want to do them–and honestly, it’s a lot more work, and I don’t really blame them.
Yep. In the early 2000s, and after we had huge success with a “poster mare” for EPSM/PSSM after she went on Dr. Valentine’s recommended diet, we–with approval from our vets–put all the drafts on the EPSM diet. They all improved (energy, stamina, weight regulation). It was amazing. Turned out the ones that were difficult to shoe (in terms of not holding their feet up) weren’t difficult because they wouldn’t hold their feet up, but because they couldn’t. :sadsmile:
Since then the vets in that practice have encouraged feeding all drafts and draftX as though they have EPSM. It doesn’t hurt them, and it helps a great many.[/QUOTE]
Gald you enjoyed my post, and that you have had success with the dsraft horse diet-- hearing, from personal experience, that it has worked for other horss, gives me confidence that it will be better for my drafts too.
After discussion with Dixie’s old trainer, and then my vet and the draft farrier who also has Clydes, I began the process of switching most of the light horses, too - over to the “draft” diet with added oil for fat in early July.
Since all of the horses here are older – except for the Paso Fino–we are hoping that this higher fat, low sugar/ carb approach will benefit all of them and maybe prevent or delay development IR or Cushings in any of them as they age.
Since the three drafts are actually the oldest, and EPSM (from what I have read) is always a possibility with them-- all of them have been put on low sugar/low carb feed as soon as they arrived here-- but I just started adding oil after Dixie’s old trainer suggested it. I had thought the fat content was high enough on its own in the feed since it was higher than in the sweet feed that most people use.
I have been feeding the drafts 1.5% of their body weight daily in feed alone, with grazing and free choice hay being “extra” instead of having the total of feed and hay/ grazing equal 1.5% of their body weight. Because I have time and am able, I feed three meals a day plus free choice hay or managed garzing.
Dixie did very well for the farrier, and didn’t have any trouble picking up her feet without stocks. She did want to try to lean on him from time to time, but he said most horses try to do that. He thought her hooves were in very good condition but needed trimming and shaping, particularly at the toes.
EFF, if you mean you are feeding 1.5 in grain, I’d be cautious. Drafts, well, all horses best way to gain weight is thur hay. Grain can have negative consequences, and some grains digestion requirements actually burn more than they contribute.
I would stick to hay, grazing, the epsm diet.
Even my rescues that came here skinny minnies did not get grain for a couple of weeks. Slowly added it.
Most grain companies I believe do not suggest more than 4 pounds of grain at one feeding. My horses would love to get that amount!LOL, but there is no way I go over more than 2 pounds a meal…and that is in winter when I am dealing with the fact they cannot eat enough hay to keep on weight.
Grain does not really do as good a job as beet pulp, hay for adding on the pounds. Plus, it also has its down side too(colic, founder).
best.
“Feed” means stuff I have to “feed” to them in a bucket
[QUOTE=fivehorses;5061744]
EFF, if you mean you are feeding 1.5 in grain, I’d be cautious. Drafts, well, all horses best way to gain weight is thur hay. Grain can have negative consequences, and some grains digestion requirements actually burn more than they contribute.
I would stick to hay, grazing, the epsm diet.
Even my rescues that came here skinny minnies did not get grain for a couple of weeks. Slowly added it.
Most grain companies I believe do not suggest more than 4 pounds of grain at one feeding. My horses would love to get that amount!LOL, but there is no way I go over more than 2 pounds a meal…and that is in winter when I am dealing with the fact they cannot eat enough hay to keep on weight.
Grain does not really do as good a job as beet pulp, hay for adding on the pounds. Plus, it also has its down side too(colic, founder).
best.[/QUOTE]
fivehorses- Not to worry, when I say feed- that means stuff I have to prepare and carry out in a bucket as opposed to grass hay - that I can just dump in bunkers or troughs by the bale.
Right now, horses are getting a mixture of alfalfa pellets, soaked beet pulp and either senior pellets or Strategy-- depending on which horse it is- mixed one third of each. That is what is being feed as 1.5% of their body weight-- fed out in 3 or 4 portions during the day-- not all at once.:eek:
Since Dixie weighs 1,600lbs., she gets 2 lbs approx. of that mixture with 1 cup oil total per day, but this is divided into three or four feedings. She can eat as much of the grass hay as she likes. She gets at least 2 hours every day on grass- but sometimes she gets longer. I have figured that 1.5% of 16,00lbs. is 1 lb.6 ozs plus.8 ozs to equal 30 ozs or 1 lb. 14 ozs and I round it off at 2 lbs. I am not a math whiz so I could be figuring this wrong. Am I doing the math wrong?
But at any rate, none of my horses is getting good old fashoned sweet feed-- a mixture of grains sweetened with molasses any more.
We used to feed–more than 20 years ago - two gallons feed in the morning and two at night. (plus the hay, of course)
In the winter we did feed a 12-14% grain sweet feed-- in the summer we “cut” the sweet feed with an equal amount of steamed, crimped oats.
Everyone we knew used the “feed by volume” system and we did too back then. Now with lots of the feed being pelleted, and different pellets being different sizes and all, I use the “feed by percentage of horse’s weight” system, and weigh out everything on a hanging scale.
But I know lots of people who used and still use the “coffee can” system-- they feed one half of a 3 lb. coffee can of feed a day- that would be 1.5 lbs per day of grain feed.
All this math has given me a headache. It’s time to feed again.
[QUOTE=elysianfieldsfarm;5061054]
But maybe you knew that already—??? – Maybe you are part of this alleged group???[/QUOTE]
YES! They’re all out to get you! Get out your tinfoil hat! 
(Note: the smiley indicates tongue-in-cheek humor.)
In all seriousness, I suggest you apply your powers of critical thought to ALL of your acquaintances on this board, and determine for yourself who you want to interact with. It’s not that hard.
As far as grain goes, lots of draft folks feed the low-carb diet by default to all their drafts just to avoid any possible problems.
I hope this is a typo.
If you are feeding your draft horses 20lbs of grain a day they are going to die.
I’d suggest working with a vet familiar with the nutritional and caloric needs of the draft horse.
(Not even a draft cross field hunter in heavy work during the peak of the season would get anything close to that amount of grain)
Good luck.
[QUOTE=JSwan;5061802]
I hope this is a typo.
If you are feeding your draft horses 20lbs of grain a day they are going to die.
I’d suggest working with a vet familiar with the nutritional and caloric needs of the draft horse.
(Not even a draft cross field hunter in heavy work during the peak of the season would get anything close to that amount of grain)
Good luck.[/QUOTE]
She wrote:
Right now, horses are getting a mixture of alfalfa pellets, soaked beet pulp and either senior pellets or Strategy-- depending on which horse it is- mixed one third of each. That is what is being feed as 1.5% of their body weight-- fed out in 3 or 4 portions during the day-- not all at once.
Not grain -she did not write grain. But I agree…20 pounds- that is a huge amount of alfalfa and pulp (and wheat middlings, distilled grain product and rice bran).
Of course, sharps on the teeth and worms are the biggest consumers of extra calories…
[QUOTE=fivehorses;5061126]
Moderator, with all due respect, I do hope you monitor this thread for the defaming character assinations that seem to continue from a few select individuals. I also would appreciate you editing those posts that continually call into question the health and welfare of EFF horses.
By allowing these type of attacks to continue, it seems that COTH is condoning this behavior(bullying).
It is apparent to some COTH’ers that there is a select group of individuals who are allowed to bully people off these boards. I certainly do not think the publisher would condone or appreciate that this is happening on a forum that is meant to help horse people to communicate and educate.
I appreciate your post asking for peace, and hopefully continued monitoring of individuals who seem to incite issues, as well as bully/defame a targeted poster. I have seen posts in other threads where inflamatory remarks were edited, yet it seems that some posters are granted higher tolerance than others and allowed to post at will, regardless of their inflamatory statements.
It isn’t easy being a moderator, and I do appreciate all that you do. But, I also think that I will be a pesty poster pm’img you in the future of posts that are destructive or have a tone of libel. It only brings down the esteem of The Chronicle of The Horse to have these kinds of posts not addressed. It hasn’t been too difficult to figure out who is in this ‘group’ that seem to have a gang mentality and will be ever watchful of any personal attacks they wage. I am sure you would also appreciate the help in eliminating this behavior as well. thank you.[/QUOTE]
BRAVO Fivehorses, unfortunately, there are a few who HAVE to have the last word and are perfect in everything they do…and I doubt anything will ever be done to the rebel rowsers but a slap on the wrist…
Thanks for your concern- I’m not a math whiz but NOT feeding 20 lbs per horse
Look, I was trying to expain what I was told by my vet about needing to give a percentage weight per day of feed based on body weight-- and based on weighing out the feed, not measuring by volume.
I didn’t do the math, but was trying to explain it- but any way-my vet said to feed based on weight-- it varies from horse to horse based on that horse’s weight – but amounts vary from 1.5 lbs of feed to almost 3 lbs of feed.
It is NOT grain -it is feed --this is a mixture of equal parts of alfalfa pellets, beet pulp and either strategy or equine senior and with a cup of oil a day. This total amount weight per horse is divided up and fed in three or meals per day --PLUS the horses are allowed to eat as much hay as they want and graze at least 2 hours per day as well.
Again-- NOT grain-- FEED. I am no longer feeding any grain, especially molasses covered grain to ANY horses. It is probably healther and certainly easier to have them all on the same diet.
If I had to feed just one horse 20 lbs of feed per day, a 50 lb sack would be gone in just 2 days with only enough for half a feeding on the third day - and I would be in the poor house – if they still had them.:eek:
[QUOTE=Cielo Azure;5062092]
She wrote:
Right now, horses are getting a mixture of alfalfa pellets, soaked beet pulp and either senior pellets or Strategy-- depending on which horse it is- mixed one third of each. That is what is being feed as 1.5% of their body weight-- fed out in 3 or 4 portions during the day-- not all at once.
Not grain -she did not write grain. But I agree…20 pounds- that is a huge amount of alfalfa and pulp (and wheat middlings, distilled grain product and rice bran).
Of course, sharps on the teeth and worms are the biggest consumers of extra calories…[/QUOTE]
Sorry for the confusion- I am not feeding 20 lbs of this mixture per day to each horse.
I certainly agree that I think teeth alignment and surface condition as well as worm infestations are added burdens for a horse to overcome, and are easy to correct these days. But there was a study reported by Horse.com that supposedly found that teeth floating did not significantly improve nutrient utilization in older horses. I remember reading the story earlier this year and being surprised.
All of my horses are on a regular worming rotation planned out by the vet. She gives me a list of what to buy and use in what order.
All have their teeth checked twice a year when the vet does all the vaccinations - some of them are done every 6 months- mainly to protect against WNV and various sleeping sicknesses carried by mosquitoes. Again, all of this is decided by the vet–
If their teeth need floating when they get the semi-annual shots, they are floated. And older horses are fed their feed soaked so they can eat it more easily- again vet’s recommendation.
I believe that Dixie will be around for James to visit for years to come. It is nice that he doesn’t live very far away, and I have told him and his wife are welcome to come spend some time with her-- all they have to do is call.
[QUOTE=elysianfieldsfarm;5061473]
I was hoping, when I originally posted, to spark an exchange of “reunion” stories. So how about it? Have you experienced a reunion with a horse you had “lost track of” or have you been witness to such a reunion?
If so, please share your story. Unfortunately, the horses are unable to post their versions- they just can’t type well with those big hooves.:lol: so we will have to content ourselves with hearing only from the humans involved. Thanks.[/QUOTE]
My story is of an old hunter I had, many, many years ago. I believed him to be in his late teens and he had passed hands in a game of poker before coming to me. The field he and his companions were grazing was to be used for a local fete and the police arrived at the same time that I did to catch the horses. One helpful policeman held the hunter who was the first caught whilst I got the other two.
Long story short, the hunter was not in his teens but in his 30’s and was an ex police horse. The policeman had ridden him for 12 years in the force before he had been retired due to a cough caused by traffic fumes in the city. He had been passed on to one of the local hunts where he had been a hunt horse for a further 7 years. He then went to live with the local farrier who is the person who lost him to a docker in a late night poker game. The docker knowing nothing about horses had given him to his girlfriend, who got bored and passed him onto me to ride.
Once I knew his real age I tried to retire him but he was not having that and sulked, refusing to graze just standing at the gate all day. As he was losing weight I brought him back up and into light work and he was as happy as larry but never regained the lost weight! I had the horse for a further 4 years until one day after a week at a pony club camp he pulled out lame in 3 legs and was put down.
Several times over the years the policeman came to visit him and brought old photos and tales of his life in the force and at the hunt, where he also used to visit him.
That horse taught me so many lessons about horses at a very impressionable age (12-17yrs), I have had many horses since, younger, fitter, more able, but he is the one that I owe my biggest debt to.
Sorry i’ve been traveling and just now getting back to this thread. I do not wish to derail it further, but i will apologize for my “Amish” statement if it offended anyone.
If you would like me to be more specific. I grew up near Arthur IL and have owned many an Amish trained horse over the years. I’ve been to their auctions, played with their kids, and my mothers midwife was Amish. All of our milk and eggs came from them. So, i wont stereotype all Amish in the country, but i will say there are some REALLY bad abusive situations around the Arthur area, from what i’ve seen them do at home, what i’ve seen them drive on the streets, what i’ve seen them do at auctions with horses that arent even theirs… So i stand by my statement that there are far worse horse owners than the OP to attack. And yes, i’ll admit not ALL amish in Arthur were bad horse owners, but many out in the public were and seemed to relish in showing it. On another thread i posted a pic of a mini at an amish ran auction, no more than 28" tall, pulling a cart loaded with amish kids, as well as a kid sitting on the pony, pony was only 3, in good weight, but longer feet than i thought he should have, these kids were from a sect in Indiana. To me, that was abuse on that little pony, but it was done with every little pony brought in there.
I would also like to say that all of you would roll over and cry foul at what i am seeing here in Puerto Rico. Horses live in rural neighborhoods with yards no larger than 20x20ft, they do not get hay, nope… They are let LOOSE on the city streets and highways at night to graze off the sides of the road! I have not seen a mildly fat horse, or even one in good weight yet. Went on a carriage drive in Old San Juan yesterday, mostly because the kid seemed to really love his horse, Amy and i felt he might need some extra money to care for her. WOW, then i felt terrible where Amy had to take us! It was nothing but uphill 3/4s of the trip on old cobblestone roads (with a big 6 seater vis-a-vis) and then one long downhill back with practically stopped traffic that Amy had to keep us from sliding into the van we were behind. Amy was a light horse, i would say a TB cross possibly? No bigger than 15h. She pulled that carriage, 4 adults and a child up 45 degree cobblestone roads, not even something those wheels would roll over easily. The cobblestone dating back to the early 1800s, so it’s not like it was smooth! But when Amy got back, she got a 5g bucket of fresh water, a treat, and some love from her driver as well as us. I thought, wow, what a great guy, he’s doing the BEST for this horse with the money that he earns, that he said a large portion goes to the company he works for that reserves the spot they park at and pays the insurance and license fees to the city. Amy only gets to graze at night out off the streets after she drives home several miles… Let me also add that it was 97 degrees out with 88% humidity and this was 3pm. This may be a US territory, but US hack work laws dont seem to apply here of only working a horse a few hours, over a certain temp not at all, etc…
But just like in the “old” days (this being as early as 50yrs ago) horses have to work for a living here (as many still do in all countries). They may be well loved, but this is still a very poor country in areas and they sure are not in the best of conditions, but they still do their job and seem to enjoy their water and cookies at the end of a trip, with a nice shade tree to park under off the ocean which at least offers some cool breeze. People need to realize that horses have not always been pampered pets. Some have to earn their keep, and still do, no matter what body condition they are in. Many of those are still VERY well loved and their owners are doing the best for them that they can as the OP seems to be doing.
Well, after looking at the picture of Daisy, pulling after being at Elysian Fields for 6 weeks, just… boooooo. I’m sorry you don’t want to hear that the horse looks malnourished and shouldn’t be in that kind of work while she’s in that condition, but there it is. Please consider getting her back into condition, with easy exercise, like turn out or handwalking before resuming light carriage work.
It’s a good thing you’ve admitted your relative inexperience with drafts, and have sought out information from others, but consider taking some of that advice too, and not being so defensive. Everyone can make a mistake or two, but the welfare of the horse is more important than your (or anyone’s) ego.
And, while you’ve been blasted for different things on this thread, perhaps it’s because while you wanted to post a feel good, heartwarming story, others heard or read differently and wanted to help and offered the opinions or help you claimed you needed or sought, and you rejected them out of hand. Some people here actually really do know what they are talking about, such as Thomas1. Abrasive as he can be, (Thomas1-- just keeping it real) he is truly an expert in regards to driving and horse care.
Good luck with those drafts.
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