Apologize in advance if this has already been posted. I did a search beforehand and did not find it in any of the forums.
http://practicalhorsemanmag.com/article/jim-wofford-eventing-lives-balance-29236
Still on point, but the article was written in 2008.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8655667]
Still on point, but the article was written in 2008.[/QUOTE]
Yes that’s correct - however I wasn’t able to find a reference to it after a lengthy search - perhaps it was buried inside of another thread.
Still interesting though, even today …
Yes, that was a dark time. Pre- Derek di Grazia course design at Rolex. Frangible pins have also come into play and no doubt contributed to improved safety. Having said that, 4 horse falls, including Boyd’s rather horrific fall at a single fence at Badminton might indicate there’s more work to do.
[QUOTE=riderboy;8655785]
Yes, that was a dark time. Pre- Derek di Grazia course design at Rolex. Frangible pins have also come into play and no doubt contributed to improved safety. Having said that, 4 horse falls, including Boyd’s rather horrific fall at a single fence at Badminton might indicate there’s more work to do.[/QUOTE]
I sure hope so. That was a ugly fence question I thought. I watched that video clip http://eventingnation.com/badminton-horse-trials-cross-country-live-updates/ Would it have been worth his or Crackerjack’s lives, or that of any other rider/horse combination? That which doesn’t kill you can still end your career; or your ability to walk again. Worth it?
We all know that riding horses is dangerous and jumping them over large fixed obstacles, even more so. Still, should a fence question be such that if you or your horse makes a mistake - as Boyd alludes to in his blog post, that it has an elevated potential to kill you?
Am I the only one thinking that it’s been really refreshing to have some big competitions go on and no deaths or serious injuries lately? I’d love to see that trend continue!
I love eventing, but the costs at the upper levels are sometimes just way too high. Am so glad they were in fact able to walk away from their crash. Just my .02 and I’m sure only worth that much. YMMV
[QUOTE=FatCatFarm;8656462]
I sure hope so. That was a ugly fence question I thought. I watched that video clip http://eventingnation.com/badminton-horse-trials-cross-country-live-updates/ Would it have been worth his or Crackerjack’s lives, or that of any other rider/horse combination? That which doesn’t kill you can still end your career; or your ability to walk again. Worth it?
We all know that riding horses is dangerous and jumping them over large fixed obstacles, even more so. Still, should a fence question be such that if you or your horse makes a mistake - as Boyd alludes to in his blog post, that it has an elevated potential to kill you?
Am I the only one thinking that it’s been really refreshing to have some big competitions go on and no deaths or serious injuries lately? I’d love to see that trend continue!
I love eventing, but the costs at the upper levels are sometimes just way too high. Am so glad they were in fact able to walk away from their crash. Just my .02 and I’m sure only worth that much. YMMV[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
I hated the look of the Vicarage Vee on the virtual walk. The margin for error was so very thin as to be non existent.
At what point does it become unfair for the horses?
Historically iirc (and that’s a somewhat sizable “if”) the Vicarage Vee has killed some horses. In 2007 one died at the vet hospital after cutting it’s leg on the fence and slicing an artery in the process.
I think back to the awful 1992 incarnation when 3 horses died on xc day including Mr. Maxwell, Mark Todd’s, “Face The Music” at the Vee and a very young WFP’s “Briarland’s Pippin” at the lake. I can’t find proof of where MM died. I know it was 3 different fences, so only Mark’s was at the vee. But still a fence that has a past shouldn’t be in the present in my mind.
It’s an awful fence. Never been a good fence but I give full credit to those who can jump it well.
Edited to add: Isn’t it interesting how a flash back of perspective makes the current fence look worse and the past version, not so bad:
http://kithoughton.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v103/p70229161-3.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f6/d5/f9/f6d5f98b27fa0877d0da375cb75f0333.jpg
~Emily
[QUOTE=Xctrygirl;8656838]
Historically iirc (and that’s a somewhat sizable “if”) the Vicarage Vee has killed some horses. In 2007 one died at the vet hospital after cutting it’s leg on the fence and slicing an artery in the process.
I think back to the awful 1992 incarnation when 3 horses died on xc day including Mr. Maxwell, Mark Todd’s, “Face The Music” at the Vee and a very young WFP’s “Briarland’s Pippin” at the lake. I can’t find proof of where MM died. I know it was 3 different fences, so only Mark’s was at the vee. But still a fence that has a past shouldn’t be in the present in my mind.
It’s an awful fence. Never been a good fence but I give full credit to those who can jump it well.
Edited to add: Isn’t it interesting how a flash back of perspective makes the current fence look worse and the past version, not so bad:
http://kithoughton.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v103/p70229161-3.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f6/d5/f9/f6d5f98b27fa0877d0da375cb75f0333.jpg
~Emily[/QUOTE]
Yes, thank you for that. I remember Mr. M - it was a very hard time for KOC.
I was crazy about that horse.
I don’t always think “the good old days” were better - I certainly never rode at that level- but it still just seems to me that the ridiculous amount of technical questions these days would just set the stage for more tired horses, and more possible accidents.
Simplistic view, but there it is.
I am not convinced by the article. Especially the part about picking the distances. Especially with the comparison to steeplechasing. FWIW, I was rereading a Dick Francis novel not long ago and his jump jockeys pick their distances over those big fences at a full gallop. And pay the price when they miss, too. It is how most of the crashes in his books occur. I would say he knows a thing or two about the sport.
Tamarack Hill Farm’s FB page has a post from Denny Emerson today about the Vicarage Vee that I think is on point.
"My personal take on having a fence like this is simple. Don’t have it. You know it can do this to horses. Do you care, or don’t you?
If you don’t care, you shouldn’t own horses. If you do care, don’t ask them to do stuff like this,
As I say, pretty simple—"
Rolex this year was my first time spectating live at a 4 star event. Every time I heard “rider fall” over the PA I was scared, but I was happy to hear later on that there were no truly horrific crashes. It seemed like the course design was really well thought through to narrow the field via the accumulation of penalties.
[QUOTE=Twigster;8657367]
Tamarack Hill Farm’s FB page has a post from Denny Emerson today about the Vicarage Vee that I think is on point.
"My personal take on having a fence like this is simple. Don’t have it. You know it can do this to horses. Do you care, or don’t you?
If you don’t care, you shouldn’t own horses. If you do care, don’t ask them to do stuff like this,
As I say, pretty simple—"
.[/QUOTE]
Love that.
God bless Denny Emerson! :yes:
It’d be so much easier if Denny would just step up and offer to work with the USEA, as he did before, rather than blasting them and making inflammatory remarks after what feels like every three day.
I swear he feels like TMZ equine to me some days.
Emily
On the one hand I agree; but on the other I do admire his calling a spade a spade, or at least as he sees it. I’m sure it would be different if I didn’t find myself agreeing with him more often than not. :winkgrin:
I, too, am glad that Denny calls it for what it is. I do wish he, and some of the current BNR’s would step up and work together, if they want to impact things in a positive way.
[QUOTE=FatCatFarm;8658346]
On the one hand I agree; but on the other I do admire his calling a spade a spade, or at least as he sees it. I’m sure it would be different if I didn’t find myself agreeing with him more often than not. :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
My problem is that I have been (physically) at some of the events that he complains about from Vermont or North Carolina.
More than once he is complaining on hearsay or at least rumored feedback from places where he’s not actually seeing everything.
I get you can’t be in all these places at once, but then phrase things differently. He called Fair Hill CCI a couple years ago dangerous and awful and the falls he described were completely inaccurate to what happened. But he led his sheep herd and they completely followed him without question. THAT is not helpful to anyone.
Em
[QUOTE=Xctrygirl;8658187]
It’d be so much easier if Denny would just step up and offer to work with the USEA, as he did before, rather than blasting them and making inflammatory remarks after what feels like every three day.
I swear he feels like TMZ equine to me some days.
Emily[/QUOTE]
USEA/USEF and a good portion of the status quo dumped on DE long enough that he gave up on them. He has unabashedly admitted that as a “kid” he did what needed to be done, but looks back now and says that is not how we should be today.
I read his stuff. I want to his camp and met his people, his horses and if you could roll back 30-40 years on his life, but with the experience he has today, you’d be looking at MJ.
There is no defense for the Vicarage V. It has no place in today’s Sport, because there are enough other ways to test a horse’s accuracy, bravery, and trust. DG showed that at Rolex with more eliminations from refusals/withdraws than out and out falls.
Welfare of the horse…it should really mean something, not lip service.
Eventing as an amateur sport is doing quite well, but Eventing at the upper levels, in the realm of the professional, at least in this country is still certainly in peril.
I don’t disagree that the Vee should be removed or restructured in some way.
But, and this is a big but, why can’t we just approach it like “I’ve penned an email to the FEI safety force and in it I am suggesting that they re-evaluate the safety in future events of jumps built like the Vicarage Vee, based on it’s historical impact at Badminton.”
That to me is a sensible dialog about the issue at hand and it shows that a trusted name has actually taken a step towards doing something.
What we have instead though is a former BNT bitching about a jump at an event not on American soil and proposing no solution and insinuating that the Badminton organizing team and TD, course builders etc don’t care about horse’s welfare.
That to me is FAR less useful. (I said to me and I will clearly state that this is just my opinion on this issue)
Em
Okay, we have no idea if Denny had/has/or will have written such a official letter to such corrupt and pustulant leaders within the FEI. What he did, like you here, was express his personal viewpoint to people who follow his postings.
Those are apples oranges comparisons and whether it is the well coiffed statement you present or the more raw, emotional stance of Denny, the basic agreement stands. Don’t silence or criticize the messenger who basically agrees with your position (unless you don’t like the messenger), but use the energy to better drive home the point.
If the FEI is all about the Welfare of the horse, that fence should have been removed a long time ago. Perhaps the coiffed approach does not work with troglodytes.
JP60- “well quaffed”, is that an auto-correct gaffe or do I get to say “I do not think that means what you think that means” 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIP6EwqMEoE
quaffed = drank
coiffed = hairdo
maybe well “crafted”?
