Judges or others in the know- Deduction for tongue sticking out?

[Nestor]

[QUOTE=Mukluk;8692081]
Seen by vet and dentist. No issues identified. I think I am just not going to care too much. I really think this is a habit with her- she does it most vigorously when she is about to get her grain. Under saddle it seems related to some extent to excitement but also happens more but not always with contact. Maybe with lots of work and moving better more relaxed overall she may do it less. We are going to just hope to improve in dressage relative to ourselves. I didn’t buy her to be a dressage horse, it is just one of many things we do. She’s my girl and I love her.[/QUOTE]

Great attitude to have! Good luck!

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8672790]
^

The reason why it is verboten is because it is a symptom of discomfort. I am not convinced it is ever a ‘habit’… I have seen many times before horses who’s owners insisted it was an ingrained habit stop the second their pain was addressed. Usually it is hocks or stifles, IME, though I would not rule out back pain, kissing spine or saddle fit. One horse I knew that was a chronic-waggler stopped once he was started on a course of ulcergard. It could be something as simple as the horse not caring for the bitting/noseband combination.

The quickest way to stop the habit besides addressing the pain is to stop allowing it to happen. Switch her bit to a bit that does not allow that, put her in a drop or some other supportive/stable noseband, and get her checked out by a vet. Having a horse that sticks out its tongue sucks, and I sympathize with you, but make sure you exhaust all possible avenues of pain before declaring it a habit. It’s not particularly comfortable to stick your tongue out and wave it, so I am not so sure it is a habit so much as a learned evasion/distraction because something hurts.[/QUOTE]
Picking one’s cuticles till bleeding, cannot be particularly comfortable, but some people have that habit.

Having known an OTTB that did this from day one, despite changes to the bit, and various types of dropped nosebands etc. The owner was told by a BNT, and O judge," ignore it". Sometimes when being ridden the horse got involved in what she was doing, and would forgot to hang it out. On those days the horse scored in the 70’s.

So perhaps not always pain, sometimes a habit, that sometimes they can be distracted from.

[Mukluk]

She does stick her tongue out… But on the other hand. She has been in parades. Gone horse camping and handled all kinds of trails in the Sierras. She loves xc jumping (we like eventing). Done cattle work. Participated in a buffalo roundup. She is really cute. Most everyone who knows her likes her (including vets and trainers). She gives pony rides to the young and old. Competed and done well in trail classes (in english tack of course) She has her feet ready for you to pick up when you get near the foot. She has very good stable manners. She is super athletic. She is comical. She is very sweet.

[Reina_de_Nieve]

It should be deducted for

Most horses I’ve met who stick their tongues out do so because of nerve damage caused by the rider habitually riding with way too much pressure on the reins. Their is a tiny minority of horses who have nothing wrong with their tongues and sticking the tongue out is just the way they are. But because most of the time a tongue that is stuck out is a sign of cruel riding it should be deducted for.

[BLBSTBLS]

Ok, I was just reading a thread in the Dressage column yesterday about Peanut Butter. I have a filly, one that hurt her should was on stall rest for a while and learned how to suck on her tongue, she is very mouthy with her bit, she doesn’t stick her tongue out but she is constantly playing with it. In the other thread people said to wrap the bit in fruit roll ups cut in thin pieces. I haven’t tried yet with my mare, but maybe your horse would learn to keep her tongue inside her mouth while you are riding?
I do have an OTTSB and he sticks his tongue out, but his tongue would get tied outside of his mouth when he raced*Which I don’t like** but that was how the trainers trained him when he was young before I had him.

[MissAriel]

I wonder what a judge would say about a horse with a medical reason? I know a horse, that after a bad infection had a few teeth pulled. He is fine, except sometimes his tongue slips out of his mouth where the teeth are missing. It is actually more likely to happen when he is relaxed. His owner just does trail, so it isn’t an issue for them. But I am just curious -in a situation like this could you alert the TD or some other official prior to the ride so that this could be taken into consideration?

[Mukluk]

[QUOTE=Reina de Nieve;8707211]
Most horses I’ve met who stick their tongues out do so because of nerve damage caused by the rider habitually riding with way too much pressure on the reins. Their is a tiny minority of horses who have nothing wrong with their tongues and sticking the tongue out is just the way they are. But because most of the time a tongue that is stuck out is a sign of cruel riding it should be deducted for.[/QUOTE]

It seems to be a fairly common habit for horses off the track. I’m not sure how it started for her but she has done it since I bought her at age 4 and she is 12 now.

[ottb_finley]

My OTTB does this. I’ve tried many things to fix it and it isn’t happening. Anytime a bit is in his mouth, his tongue is out. I’ve been to 3 dressage shows with him. Two judges were very harsh about it and the last didn’t seem to care. The first two were strictly dressage, the last judge was an eventer who has OTTB’s so I believe that has a lot to do with it.

It sucks but whatever. He is super nice and I love him!

[ottb_finley]

[QUOTE=Reina de Nieve;8707211]
Most horses I’ve met who stick their tongues out do so because of nerve damage caused by the rider habitually riding with way too much pressure on the reins. Their is a tiny minority of horses who have nothing wrong with their tongues and sticking the tongue out is just the way they are. But because most of the time a tongue that is stuck out is a sign of cruel riding it should be deducted for.[/QUOTE]

I completely disagree. It is a pretty common habit for OTTBs. Usually from having their tongues tied at the track.

[Mukluk]

The trainer that came with me to look at her noted (regarding her tongue), “Well she’ll probably always do that.” My current approach is to just work on getting her to go as nicely as possible- perhaps she may do less tongue out- at least in dressage you get a report card and you compete against yourself. In eventing no one will care on xc or show jumping. In hunter/jumper shows judges vary with regard to their opinions.

Considering changing her show name to “Tongue Action.”

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=MissAriel;8707371]
I wonder what a judge would say about a horse with a medical reason? I know a horse, that after a bad infection had a few teeth pulled. He is fine, except sometimes his tongue slips out of his mouth where the teeth are missing. It is actually more likely to happen when he is relaxed. His owner just does trail, so it isn’t an issue for them. But I am just curious -in a situation like this could you alert the TD or some other official prior to the ride so that this could be taken into consideration?[/QUOTE]

No - there are no medical dispensations or “considerations” for horse medical issues. Only for riders.

[Draftmare]

This seems to be a common issue with OTTBs. I had a TB gelding that had his tongue out pretty much non-stop while being ridden. After checking tack, teeth, and overall health we ended up going with a flash bridle to encourage him to keep his tongue in his mouth.

[Draftmare]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8711076]
No - there are no medical dispensations or “considerations” for horse medical issues. Only for riders.[/QUOTE]

From what I understand you can get some things excused though. Like using a fly bonnet for a horse that has fly sensitivity issues.

[Kerrysmom818]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8711076]
No - there are no medical dispensations or “considerations” for horse medical issues. Only for riders.[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure that’s true. I have a friend that showed a horse that had a tongue issue (almost cut in half) so his tongue was out on one side the majority of the time due to nerve damage. She obtained a note from her vet stating the cause and submitted that, along with her entry fees, to show management. She would also provide a copy of the note to the judge prior to her test(s). She was never dinged nor was the tongue ever mentioned when she received her test(s) back. Maybe she just got lucky.

[Blkarab]

Interesting topic. I just scribed this past weekend for a show, and we had one horse that had a tongue issue.

The judge didn’t take off too much from the score, as long as the overall movement was good. She would make a comment in the movements where it occurred of “tongue out” so the rider would know…but it didn’t affect her score too badly. Also…she would only mention it in the movements where she could actively see it…so for instance, a movement across the diagonal where the horse and rider are riding away from the judge, she wouldn’t mention it.

OP…I would not let the tongue issue discourage you from competing in Dressage, especially since it is only happening occasionally.

[Mukluk]

Well she did just get a 68% in intro C so that was good. My friend served as scribe and the judge felt that the horse was relaxed and moving well. I think the implication was that at a higher level the tongue would be penalized more.