Jumpers - would you buy a horse with poor form o/f

[Harte]

Hello,
Please be kind here, I know the inexperience is glaring. I’m looking at a horse overseas that has the most impeccable blood lines imaginable (Cornet, Nimmendor, etc, etc) and is the most stunningly beautiful, sweetest, puppy dog horse. He’s a pure jumper and nothing else. I almost fell off the first jump from the incredible effort he makes over fences, but got used to his intense jump style pretty quickly. I’ve never ridden anything like it. The thing is, his front end is… not ideal. Coming from a hunter background, this bugs me. My question for the jumpers is: should it?

Sorry for the video still, this is all I have. He is otherwise a powerhouse and clears everything with care. When I tried him, he kind of peeked at fences being set up (he is 6) and had a bit of an intense, on edge energy (under saddle only) but he seemed to be driven to get over everything, and I’ve heard from friends a bit of peeking is actually good for jumpers because it leads to careful jumping. Allegedly he is the same everywhere, shows, home, etc. I’m new to jumpers, and am using my hunter/eq background to make decisions. I am having a hard time getting past the knees. Not currently traveling with a trainer (I know I know) but sending him videos as I go for feedback (this was a vacation that happened to be next to an excellent sales barn. What do you think? Thank you!

[MHM]

Depending on your age, you may or may not recognize the riders in these photos. But these are two different riders on the same horse over the course of his career, starting as a youngster, and going on to be a show jumping bronze medalist at the Olympics.

As you can see, the horse’s form improved with some years and some mileage, along with some excellent riding and training.

I would say one important factor regardless of their form is whether or not the horse seems to care about touching the jumps. Note that even in the first picture below with his legs down, the horse was WAY above the jump.

That can be hard to assess in a trial situation, though. You never know what might have been done to them before you tried them.

The other side of the coin is the old belief that you should be prepared that the horse might never go any better than the day you try him. And if that’s the case, will he be suitable for the job you have in mind for him?

Good luck!

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[Rumorhasit93]

His form doesn’t horrify me. If he goes clear, he goes clear. My mare jumps in wonderful form (also incredible breeding), but isn’t careful and almost always has a rail, but she jumps well enough we can cross over into eq/hunterland and have respectable rounds.

I think if he goes clear typically/is careful, and is kind and rideable and you like how he rides, then I wouldn’t discount him!

Good luck!

[Harte]

Thank you so much! I’ve never ridden a horse that didn’t want to touch the jumps as much as this one I love seeing this transformation!

[Harte]

Thank you very much!

[Janet]

Who remembers Halla?

[CBoylen]

The front end doesn’t bother me, but if the horse is as careful as you say, it’s not a good match for an inexperienced jumper rider. You want to start on one that isn’t that careful. A peaky, sharp horse doesn’t take jokes and will quickly lose confidence if it gets in trouble and hits something.

[McGurk]

Please also look at Cagney, the Eric Lamaze’s first Gran Prix horse. He jumped in similar form, and had a big plain head. He was summarized as a young horse as “ugly and can’t jump.”

However, @CBoylen makes an excellent point - hard to stay with a horse that habitually overjumps, even one that overjumps to compensate for the front end.

[foursocks]

My young horse is a freaky, very careful jumper with an incredible hind end, but he will jump over his shoulder if I don’t have my weight centered and even a bit back. Developing his strength and ability to rock back and use his hocks versus lawn darting himself over the jumps has helped a lot, but his form in the front is not always textbook. I have to be very accurate on him because he is definitely the kind of horse who will lose confidence with his over-the-top try if we get into trouble at a jump. He is also VERY spooky, which compounds things. He is super-fun, but it’s a challenging ride for an ammy!

As CBoylen says above, you may want to consider something less sharp as a newer jumper rider. The form doesn’t bug me on this guy, at least from these pictures, but when they are super-careful it can be really daunting going up to big (um, or even little!) stuff. What you want as you learn the ropes is a horse you don’t have to protect from himself.

Here is a picture of my boy’s hind end over a relatively small jump. This ridiculous effort is very typical for him, which I say with zero exaggeration.

[outside_leg]

@Harte

When I tried him, he kind of peeked at fences being set up (he is 6) and had a bit of an intense, on edge energy (under saddle only) but he seemed to be driven to get over everything, and I’ve heard from friends a bit of peeking is actually good for jumpers because it leads to careful jumping. Allegedly he is the same everywhere, shows, home, etc.

The form doesn’t bother me so much, but this sentence does. Peeky at home would make me think he may be even more careful at shows where the atmosphere is up. Never trust sellers when they say the horse is the same at shows as it as home unless you know them super well, and even then be cautious.

This description makes me think the horse could stop if you get to the wrong distance. The hyper careful ones aren’t great for learning the jumpers, because they need someone confident and skilled to pilot them around. I’d be looking for one that’s advertised as brave, child/amateur friendly, etc.

[Night_Flight]

@outside_leg

@Harte

shows, home, etc.

The form doesn’t bother me so much, but this sentence does. Peeky at home would make me think he may be even more careful at shows where the atmosphere is up.

It also makes me wonder what sort of prep might be happening to make the horse over jump this way. While it’s possible that the horse just gets a bit naturally spooky when jumps are being set up, and I can’t tell exactly what type of movement/sound the horse was reacting to in this instance, the horses I’ve known that were most reactive to humans touching jumps in their presence had a history of being poled.

[dags]

@outside_leg

This description makes me think the horse could stop if you get to the wrong distance.

Not just that, but quit jumping entirely with just one unfortunate crash.

@Harte

an intense, on edge energy (under saddle only) but he seemed to be driven to get over everything

Was he driven? Or has he been driven? If his actual inclination is to back off the jumps, then they’ve probably spent a lot of time— in their deep-seated, iron-legged, brass-balled euro style, coming out of the corner and making it abundantly clear that he is to march down to the jumps and jump them. Is he truly an intense and edgy horse under saddle, or have they made him that way?

An American hunter/eq rider who just happens to stumble across a sale barn on their Euro vacation and is open to impulse purchasing a young horse in a discipline they have no experience in because it’s got a few famous (and prolific) names in its pedigree? This is either a dream come true or a recipe for total disaster. Be careful, OP. The (perfectly fine) front end is the least of your worries here.

[findeight]

Great observations so far and will add another a well known rider shared with me. Beware the extravagant overjump over simple, airy jumps as you can end up landing in the middle of a solid, wide spread. These fences are airy and narrow, what happens over a wide triple bar, solid wall or a liverpool?

They also remarked about poling, tack rails and such but that has been discussed.

Is there video of this horse doing a course of more substantial fences including spreads? And what do you want to do with this horse? Where are you with your riding right now?

Just to add…sounds like you have been doing mostly Hunters? Knees to the nose is not a big deal in Jumpers. Rolling over the shoulder can be depending on the degree, would need to see more video. Sitting a horse that over jumps can be intimidating, especially for a rider moving up from a mostly Hunter and less then 1m fences background. Sorry to say many trainers lack the experience in this as well.

[Harte]

This is last paragraph is unnecessarily mean. I didn’t “stumble” into a barn like a dope on the road, I knew of this trainer and happened to be vacationing nearby so requested an appointment. I am not impulse doing anything. I was asking for (kind) feedback on what to look for with jumpers and would then discuss long and hard with my trainer when I return, possibly return with him, with a better understanding. The pedigree is a nice touch, not the reason I’m interested. You found a way to paint a picture of me that is backhanded and unkind. I’ve been riding (not professionally, but really quite well) for 20+ years, but I know I’m new to jumpers and was reaching out to learn more. I’ve had (very) tough horses before - it’s not like I can’t handle myself decently in difficult situations, and I don’t tend to make terrible decisions over fences. Point taken about the peeking. He wasn’t afraid to jump anything, nor did he charge at fences as though he’d been chased over them. He was steady. He just jumped them huge. He peeked/had an energy just while the trainer was setting up the jumps, not going at them. I know that’s not nothing, though, so I brought it up. It is possible to offer advice and not be mean about it, for future reference.

[Harte]

image

Thank you for your input, this is a video of him going with a pro!

[CBoylen]

Just in case you’re feeling defensive about this, so that the advice comes across correctly, it doesn’t take a terrible decision to create a very difficult situation for a horse like this. It only takes one huntery distance into a combination.

[nutmeg]

Love the look of him. I have found it is vital to either watch them at a show if you are still in the area or view videos from an actual show. Horses can be wildly different in their attitude towards jumping when they leave home so it would be good to see if he is a brave little soldier or a shrinking violet.

[Harte]

I certainly can see that. Not that he is the right fit for me with our combined inexperience, but I always do the add/hate leaving long.

[Rel6]

The second photo you posted I think he is jumping in really nice style - round through his back, tight from elbow to knee, and tight from knee through fetlock. I would consider that photo to be very nice form up front and what I would want to see. In the first photo he is a bit split legged, but we can’t see how he got into the fence. So while I wouldn’t be drawn to a sales ad based on the first photo, I would not walk away from a horse with it either.

I really like the look of him in the video.

You asked if we would buy a horse with poor form - I don’t see a horse with poor form. I see a careful, scopey, forward thinking jumper who is very much in the correct discipline.

Whether a careful, scopey, forwarding thinking jumper is the right fit for you is something for you and your trainer to decide!

[NaturallyHappy]

I think he looks fun and cooperative.