Jumpers - would you buy a horse with poor form o/f

[Paint_Party]

Adding the video is very helpful. The horse jumps in perfectly good enough form. However, he is being ridden in a very deep, driving seat to every fence. Like, really up in that bridle and held to the distance without any means of escape. Plus, the rider is extremely accurate. To me, and I say this as a very experienced yet admittedly older amateur, that horse is not an easy ride. Nor does it appear to be ammy friendly… at least not at this point in time.

As someone who also came from a lengthy background in hunters and eq, I personally would not want this horse for myself. The style of riding he requires is far, far removed from our traditional hunter seat position. Can you learn it? Of course. But do you want to learn it on a horse like this? That’s really something to contemplate.

[MHM]

It’s an encouraging sign that he looks like he will jump right around in good form at a horse show over strange jumps, assuming that was the case there.

Of course, if that is the only show video you’ve seen, there’s no way to tell that whether that was on his first attempt or his 50th attempt at it.

That being said, it looked like he was getting a very strong and accurate ride from a very good professional rider to help him do it.

[Harte]

Thanks! This was how I rode him, if this also helps:

image

[IPEsq]

His form doesn’t bother me. But I will echo that the peeking at jumps being set may mean he has been poled. And riding one of those in a crowded show warmup for the first time with trainers all standing by the jumps can be an eye opening experience.

[Harte]

I really don’t think that’s the case (being poled). I don’t know of course, but signs were not pointing in that direction…

[IPEsq]

I didn’t think one of my current horses had been based on how he was when I tried him. And then I took him to a schooling show, and we attracted a whole lot of attention in the warmup, and I was there to just feel him out over tiny jumps. Not the first horse I’d had who had been poled, so I had some experience for how to handle it. It is a legal practice in Germany at least so it’s not like I’m calling the trainers terrible people. But just pointing out that it is a real thing that happens quite a lot. And I’ve had 2 of those who each had their own trauma about it.

[MHM]

His jumping style looks perfectly acceptable to me in that short clip with you on him.

Is that the height you are hoping to show him at some point? Or are you planning to show higher or lower?

Generally speaking, the feasible margin of rider error gets smaller as the jumps get bigger, especially with a young or green horse.

If you buy him, will you have access to an experienced jumper rider who might be able to get on him as needed if the horse needs a little extra help at some point?

More points to ponder.

[Harte]

Thanks! I would definitely be starting low and slow, probably something he can just step over (like a meter) and ask for pros to get him used to the show ring. I would love to jump this height (or bigger!) eventually at home, but am in no rush whatsoever and would be happy to take it easy, especially since he would have a whole new country to adapt to when he gets here. He’s only 6 so there is no rush at all.

[BostonHJ]

He is clearly a nice horse and you are clearly a nice rider. If he were in the states and you knew the program he was coming out of and they vouched for his honesty, then yes, go buy him. There are just too many stories of imports that can’t handle an American ride and based on what you’ve said about him/the show video of him, it would be a risk I personally wouldn’t take.

Generally the more careful they are, the less brave they are (and the braver they are, the less careful they tend to be). Of course there are exceptions to the rule that are super brave and super careful and those have a super high price tag that reflects this. It is very important to me to have a horse that is going to jump every time it is safe for us to do so than to have one that is going to stop if they think they’re going to touch the jump.

You know your riding and your personality better than anyone. I’m more accurate to the jumps than most people, but I have zero bravery (thanks to owning a dirty stopper for years as a teenager). If you are above average accurate and above average brave, a horse like this has a chance of working for you. If you are essentially accurate and extremely brave it might work for you. If some stops are going to suck your confidence, this would be a terrible gamble. Think about your reaction when you come out of the corner for a short approach to a wide oxer and the horse sucks back dramatically. If your instinct in this moment is anything less than a full send, it will be a tough road (and yes, this should be the instinct for all of us - but the majority of riders first have that “oh shit” moment and it’s too late to fix things by the time you find your false confidence).

[Harte]

Thank you, this is really great input. I had the same experience as a teen with an eq horse who (unknowingly) was developing an illness, sucks the confidence right out. I definitely fall on the wimpier side and always take the cautious option, so thank you for adding this consideration.

[Rel6]

@Paint_Party

However, he is being ridden in a very deep, driving seat to every fence. Like, really up in that bridle and held to the distance without any means of escape. Plus, the rider is extremely accurate. To me, and I say this as a very experienced yet admittedly older amateur, that horse is not an easy ride. Nor does it appear to be ammy friendly… at least not at this point in time.

I think it is really hard to tell from that video whether the horse is being ridden that way because it requires that ride, or because that is how the rider rides. I don’t see anything in that video that implies the horse is not ammy friendly - but also don’t see anything that implies it currently is.

I have sales video of my horse being ridden very very similarly (tall, strong, accurate European male rider really holding him together every stride), and he is very ammy friendly. But I didn’t know that until I saw an ammy on him, and I wasn’t importing him from overseas either.

[MHM]

@Rel6

I think it is really hard to tell from that video whether the horse is being ridden that way because it requires that ride, or because that is how the rider rides.

Very true.

Maybe that’s how that person rides every horse. Or maybe just the six-year-olds. Or maybe just the spooky six-year-olds. It’s impossible to say from one video.

[Amberley]

@Paint_Party

However, he is being ridden in a very deep, driving seat to every fence. Like, really up in that bridle and held to the distance without any means of escape.

No he’s not? that horse is light in front, carries his head there naturally and tends to go up and down. Young horse riders in europe always ride forward to the fence, that’s how it’s done. The rider is just encouraging him to go forward he’s not riding with a “deep driving seat” or holding to a distance in any way, he’s asking the horse to move up when he sits down and back. Other fences he just lets the horse go to them.

OP- it’s a nice modern type horse, it jumps well, you ride it well and seem to be perfectly accurate. You are getting some amazingly bad takes here. I would ignore them and work with someone who knows you.

ETA the fact that the horse keeps ducking behind the bit when half halted in OPs video (which she realizes and starts to adjust for) and rarely does that in the show video shows it’s being ridden with a very light hand in that show video. That light mouth will be tricky to learn to ride.

[dmveventer]

@outside_leg

@Harte

When I tried him, he kind of peeked at fences being set up (he is 6) and had a bit of an intense, on edge energy (under saddle only) but he seemed to be driven to get over everything, and I’ve heard from friends a bit of peeking is actually good for jumpers because it leads to careful jumping. Allegedly he is the same everywhere, shows, home, etc.

The form doesn’t bother me so much, but this sentence does. Peeky at home would make me think he may be even more careful at shows where the atmosphere is up. Never trust sellers when they say the horse is the same at shows as it as home unless you know them super well, and even then be cautious.

This description makes me think the horse could stop if you get to the wrong distance. The hyper careful ones aren’t great for learning the jumpers, because they need someone confident and skilled to pilot them around. I’d be looking for one that’s advertised as brave, child/amateur friendly, etc.

Cannot emphasize this enough. If he’s peeking at familiar jumps at home with a pro in the irons I can basically guarantee he’ll stop in strange places and/or with an amateur rider. He looks tense to me in that show video even with a strong, familiar rider.

When I bought my horse I was told he was similar - often peeked and could be nervous but a good dude underneath that. That’s all true, and he’s not a pro ride necessarily, but he turned out to be a very careful, anxious horse who will stop if he feels at all overwhelmed or confused or nervous. He didn’t refuse anything during my trial ride, just peeked and slightly overjumped, and it didn’t fully become apparent until I’d had him for a few months (and for the record I don’t think he was misrepresented at all, but switching programs will do that to a horse). I suspect he’d been overfaced by his previous owner who I was told is the nervous type herself, and he’d clearly never been taught how to really use himself which added to his anxiety. It took a long time to unpack all that before I could start building him back up. I was looking for a project and am ok with delaying my showing goals so that hasn’t been a dealbreaker for me, but he definitely would not have been suited for someone timid or who wanted a reliable partner to learn a new discipline on.

[Paint_Party]

Excellent point. That may indeed just be the way he rides every horse. Or youngish horse. Not knowing the whole story is part of the shopping dilemma, especially long distance.

@Harte you are a very pretty, soft rider with a nice, solid position. The video of you jumping the horse is encouraging yet again, the horse is young, a bit peeky/looky and you’re riding him at home over familiar sticks. I’m glad you have a trainer you can consult. Just be careful and deliberate in your decision making.

[findeight]

Well, some of us do not want to see an Adult rider end up paying too much for a horse who ends up being way too much horse for them and what they want to do and 2 airy fences in their home arena after being prepared to present as a sale horse is not enough to answer those questions.

Although direct, dags means well and is not wrong for pointing out the need for caution…and they do have extensive experience with buying/selling so the opinion is valid even if the presentation was a little sharp.

Question, when was the video with the Pro taken?

[Paint_Party]

It may well be that’s how young horse riders in Europe ride. But that’s not how OP rides. She’s an American hunt seat rider. The unknown info is whether this horse can or will jump around with her as they learn to adapt to each other.

He’s a very attractive, well bred horse and OP likes his basic disposition. I think we’re all just offering our opinions, which OP asked for.We want her to be safe and happy if she decides to pursue buying him. That’s all.

[dags]

My apologies, I certainly didn’t intend to be mean. I made an incorrect inference about your experience based on the details you provided and the questions being asked. I’ve seen plenty of otherwise savvy equestrians get their arse handed to them by slick european sellers, and meant it as a cautionary tale. Mea culpa and wish you the best.

[Harte]

I’m grateful for input, I just think it can be done without assuming the worst of my intentions. I’m not totally flying blind/have done tons of research and am certainly proceeding with caution, no matter how much I think I’ve found a wonderful salesperson who seems to truly love his horses.

[Harte]

Thank you for trying to look out for me, sorry as well.