Jumping in a De gogue

I was on Instagram last week and saw a post by an UL eventer, jumping a horse returning from back injury in a de gogue. I questioned what the purpose was and they replied the vet recommended it to ensure the horse doesn’t hollow their back and re injure.

Looking through more posts, this person also xc schools a few horses in one. These are big fences, at least Prelim height.

Is this common? I thought jumping in a De Gogue was a huge no no. I would think this would severely limit the horses neck and ability to recover, and almost certainly cause a back injury, not help one.

Am I wrong in this?

i don’t think it’s really too common, and really question how healed a horse is from an injury if the need a de gogue to prevent them from “reinjuring” themselves. makes me really wonder what the nature is of the “back injury” - what, kissing spine surgery?

horses travel hollow naturally, so i can’t imagine that a de gogue would prevent anything significant when it really is a horse’s way of going to be somewhat inverted and hollow.

to me it just sounds like bad horse-practice. a de gogue certainly can and would impede a horse in a bad moment - their neck is one of the first things they need to stabilize themselves before the 5th leg comes out.

i’ve seen it done at hunter jumper farms. i haven’t seen it at many eventer facilities.

are you sure it wasn’t a newmarket martingale? those i have seen jumped in, in steeple chase and training yards. i think the way they operate is a little different (not as much degree of control in the neck).

now i want to know which UL rider it was?

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No, it was a De Gogue. I specifically asked why the De Gogue also. To me, the horse was jumping with its chin to its chest and couldn’t really get a nice bascule over the fence.

I can’t imagine WHY you would XC school in one. If your horse hangs a leg, you or the horse are pretty much dead.

Personally, I thought it appalling but I was curious to know if this is common.

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Forget XC - the thought of jumping stadium in one is scary. Holy cow. And I thought jumping in draws was sketchy.

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Seems dangerous

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Perhaps the vet told them flatwork in it might help or meant very low fences? Think vets get “quoted” for recommending a whole lot of stuff they never, ever said do and would scream in horror at what is actually done with their advice.

People cherry pick advice from vets and trainers to pick what they really want to hear out of what was actually said. And some vets are not trainers or even riders and don’t know what they are talking about when it comes to the finer points of using gimmicks and training aids for very specific reasons in very specific situations.

Of course, some UL riders aren’t…ahhh…that knowledgeable about actual horsemanship or really training one up. Especially with so many pampered Jrs making the move to Pro on family money. Shame that.

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Definitely not something I would personally ever do, vet advice or no. If my only options are no jumping or jumping in a de gogue, I won’t be jumping, thankyouverymuch.

Seems like a good way to strain or injure other areas of the neck, back, or hindquarters when the horse has to compensate for the restriction to the head. And possibly a severed tongue if the horse trips. I also don’t believe in jumping in a standing martingale, but at least they attach to the cavesson, not the bit. :eek:

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The only auxiliary piece of equipment I’d ever jump in is a properly adjusted running martingale…and so far I’ve not needed it. De Gogue, draw reins, German or standing martingale…nope!

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Was the Gogue fixed or attached to the reins?

You can ride with a Gogue if the reins are attached to the cords but not if it attaches to itself.

I personally would never jump with that.

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It is attached traditionally, reins through the bit attached to the chest with the head piece over the bridle.

I just watched it again… the Horse is jumping so awkward. The fence is nearly 4’. Another video posted of another horse shows why this rider might use this short cut.

I just find it appalling someone at that level is working horses this way. Just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something.

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There are incompetence levels too.

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I saw this too and was appalled as well! Out of curiosity I looked up the rider’s record and saw quite a few citations including horse abuse on two occasions- one at an FEI event. Of course I know nothing about the horse shown on instagram or it’s health history but I was always told not to jump in such equipment.

I saw this as well and was equally appalled! Out of curiosity I looked up the rider’s record and saw that this individual has had several yellow cards and citations brought against them- two of which were for horse abuse at an FEI level event… there was an article in the chronicle written about one of these incidents.

I don’t know the horse’s health history but I was always told NOT to jump in a de gogue and find it surprising a vet would recommend to do so… maybe the vet just okay-ed it’s use for flat work and the rider mistook the recommendation.

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oh wow. I pretty much threw the riders comment out the window when I saw there were other horses being ridden in it also.

PM a link, please?

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For the life of me I can’t find the thread on this, but I know it was discussed here on the Forums. In one day she received two yellow cards on two different horses - one for a noseband that was too tight (she was told to loosen it and ignored the instruction), and another for slapping her second horse twice on the head. She was suspended as a result of having two yellow cards.

https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/miller-and-murphy-receive-yellow-cards-virginia-horse-trials

She’s also listed as having received two prior verbal warnings, for dangerous riding and incorrect behaviour.

https://inside.fei.org/fei/your-role/athletes/warning-cards

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well this all says everything I need to know…thanks

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Yeah, just because somebody has competed at ULs and their name is familiar doesn’t mean they are worth your respect, even with bright shiny things around their necks.

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@McGurk
https://www.instagram.com/p/BgWi4aQgx-G/?taken-by=rmissymiller

interesting.

not something i would do.

looks like a nice horse.

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I have to say, I have read quite a few eventing articles in my day in which the rider being interviewed maybe said something that didnt read so great on paper. Knowing how to stay composed for the press and deliver a genuine, well thought out response to tough questions (especially regarding misbehavior or infractions) is a difficult thing to get right in any sport…However, Miller’s responses in this article take the cake. It has been a while since I have read something eventing related that made me this sick to my stomach. The thought that this ULR has clients, a string of seemingly lovely horses and still manages to say such things with what seems to be a blatant disregard for not only the rules but her own horses well-fare is nothing short of horrific.

Regarding her yellow card for too tight of noseband:
“I understand the officials are doing their jobs and everything,” said Miller. “I’ve ridden in the same noseband all year. I’ve never had anybody comment on it before at several of the FEI competitions where I’ve had successful results.”

Christian Landolt, president of the ground jury for the CCI* at the Virginia Horse Trials, said that the chief FEI steward at the VHT, Andrea Webb, asked Miller to loosen her noseband in the warm-up ring.

“At the tack inspection following her test, the noseband had not been loosened contrary to agreement, and once undone there was a strong imprint of the noseband on the horse’s skin thus having caused discomfort to her horse,” said Landolt in an emailed response.

Regarding her slapping her horse after cross-country:
“The second yellow card was the consequence of Missy hitting her horse on the head twice at the end of cross-country venting her temper following an unsuccessful performance,” he said. "This is not acceptable behavior of a rider, and it is also the riders’ responsibility to give and maintain a good picture for our sport.

“I understand they were doing their jobs in the 10-minute box, but Limited Edition is a big mare. She’d just come off cross-country, and [in the] heat of the moment she was running a lot of people over,” Miller said. "They saw me raise my hand at her. I actually didn’t strike her, but if you ever saw the mare, she’s big and powerful, and you know how horses are when they come off cross-country.

“I think the officials are pretty proactive right now with everything else going on in the world, so you have to respect their decisions at the end of the day. They’re just doing their jobs like we all are,” she continued. “I went in and was super apologetic. As a professional, we’re all trying to make it in this sport. I do understand where they’re coming from. We don’t always agree, but we have to work together because this sport, we all need to make it our livelihood. We all love it, and we all want the same outcome at the end of the day. It’s not the ending to the season anybody would want, but my horses are all happy and healthy hanging out in the field for a couple of weeks.”

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