The response/attitude of the rider mentioned above is interestingly a complete polar opposite of the other rider given a yellow card that day. Character… you either have it or you don’t.
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Since there are 2 eventers with this name… is this the one who had a horse die at Red Hills the same year as Darren’s fall? That one had a aneurysm but also a very broken neck.
Em
Sadly, yes. The other eventer goes by Melissa (for the purposes of entries, at least).
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The vet recommendation excuse is quite far-fetched.
Especialy after seeing this short ride.
The horse is hollow.
The horse can’t do a good bascule over the jump because it can’t extend it’s neck normally.
At least, if the Gogue was attached to the reins and sliding, …
The best way to be sure the horse works over it’s back at all time? Good riding. This rider is just showing her lack of riding skills and knowledge regarding training tools.
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I have been informed by a few people that all the riders horses, all the time go in a De Gogue. Dressage, jumping, galloping, etc. So they just lied to cover their ass regarding my question.
I hope to not see this type of riding repeated by others.
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A de gogue does not lift the back if that is what she is trying to achieve. I have an entire training program designed to develop a correct topline. They have to have the freedom in their back first, then learn to lift it. If the saddle is preventing them from doing it or other soreness, a de gogue is not going to help!
When I first viewed the Instagram, I thought I was looking at a still photo, in which there were poles and a very low gymnastic in the background. So my thought was “Not my choice of methods, but over poles and cavaletti, probably not a big deal.”
Then I went back and looked again. It’s a video, not a still. The video shows her cantering over a 3’6" vertical on a short canter stride with a placement rail. In the deGouge. On a horse just coming back off a layoff! Holy mother of dog!
If you pause the video, not only is the horse behind the vertical, he makes NO balancing gesture with head and neck over the fence at all.
More baffling to me still is if you review the IG account, her photos are exemplary: she’s a beautiful, technically correct rider and athlete and has some really lovely, talented horses. I don’t get it.
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Her horses are beautiful, technically correct, and extremely athletic. I honestly cannot say anything good about her simply because there is no justifying her past behavior nor her seemingly current lack of horsemanship. To me, this cancels out any talent she may have.
In most of her videos her horses look tight and hollow which to me is indicative of her lack in ability. Since reading this thread I have discovered that friend of mine was a working student along with Miller on Darren Chiachia’s farm in Ocala. Miller bullied her significantly, refused to help muck stalls during morning and evening chores with the other working students and physically ran other students out the schooling ring on several occasions without provocation.
I understand that I am now probably a little negatively biased so I will bow out of this thread. That being said there are plenty of wonderful, hard working ULRs out there who take care of their horses and support their fellow equestrians to cheer on. Miller, in my opinion, is not one of them.
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I have no medical training myself, so I cant comment on what a vet would have said. I believe people reaction is a little extreme on a well fitted De Gogue. The ones you commonly find at Dover or smart pack, are very adjustable and its an elastic cord that runs through the head piece back down to the chest. As long as the riders hands are not too tight on the reins, the horse should be able to toss his head in the air if he so desired. In fact it gives an automatic release in pressure, if the horse so decides to put his head down, where a human hand may not be so quick.
Don’t bash something that could be a helpful tool used correctly, and with education.
She needs an upper Level Dressage trainer to give her the what for.
She has no concept of a horse using it’s back and being connected from back to front.
No horse can move correctly with that thing.
Wonder where she got the idea to ride in it.
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A de Gogue does not have elastic parts. It is not attached to the head, it runs from the chest, through the bit, up the cheek piece and back onto itself. You are thinking of something else possibly. A riders hands make no difference in this with or without one. They only come into play when a horse lifts its head to the point you don`t want it to. It applies poll pressure and the horse lowers its head to it.
If you can not see why that would be dangerous for jumping, then I don`t know what to tell you.
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@GreenHunterLove You’re talking about a bungee, which is commonly used in H/J land. A DeGouge is a very different piece of equipment
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While the De Gogue doesn’t allow them to invert, it makes their neck entirely stiff and stuck. It puts them in a place where they brace up and against it, as the grey horse is doing - his neck stays in a fixed position throughout the entire video. That’s not how a neck is supposed to function over a jump.
My mare was started in a De Gogue as a baby (yes…awesome) and instead of bracing she learned to overflex in order to break the habit. She’s 11 now and it’s still her go-to evasion.
I’m not a gadget-y person, but I’d much rather see a pair of draw reins used properly vs. a De Gogue which doesn’t actually reward the horse for doing the proper thing AND is dangerous if the horse gets into trouble.
It surprising how many vets and ULRs don’t really understand biomechanics…or are in such a hurry to achieve a certain point that they don’t care what it takes to get there.
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First, you need to understand why the equipment was invented for.
The Gogue is meant as a lunging tool. Have you ever read René Gogue’s manual?
The Gogue is Not for riding, even less jumping.
It was later adapted with rein attachements - acting more like draw reins/German martingale/Olympic reins.
If you need lunging equipment while riding, it means you are unable to ride properly. The « tool » is doing the job for you. Point blank.
We are not bashing the tool but its misused.
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https://www.doversaddlery.com/de-gogue/p/X1-30059/
This product has elastic. All the product I have listed does is suggest the headset, you still need your seat and legs to drive the horse into the bit. Yes it is very common in the hunter jumper community, I imagine everyone has their own opinions.
I suppose everyone does have their own opinions. Mine is that tying a horse’s head down and then jumping is a recipe for disaster and very unkind. Who cares if it has elastic? So does my girth. The pictures and videos of this rider demonstrate very well what is wrong with this approach.
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Also dangerous and very much so… sometimes I figure I have been around too long, and have seen too many accidents. Saw a horse pull out a few lower jaw teeth as he reached over to shoo a fly… not nice. There is a french saying : like rasor blades in the hands of monkeys.
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Incorrect. This is rope, not elastic.
But I think @GreenHunterLove you’re missing on an element of comprehension. Eventers don’t typically buy into the fads of using gadgets to train our horses. Our horses have to trust us and leap into space sometimes without being able to see where the landing is. They have to carry us for miles over mixed terrain and they have to be obedient in all phases. Sure, there are some as we have seen in this thread, who believe that a gadget will help them cut a corner, but by an large we respect our horses enough that we invest in proper training and take our times with their preparation and readiness for the jobs. Their partnership and trust is far more important than the false results that gadgets tend to produce when abused. The reason I mention this is that unlike the proclivity of the hunter world we aren’t subjected to hyper subjective judging where an ounce of headset or pace makes a huge difference in our results and thus our success. The dressage phase is where we have our only bit of subjective judging. For the jumping we just have to clear the jumps. No style awards etc.
I guess for me the thing bothering me is that you’re trying to tell us that a gadget that fixes a horse’s head in a position detrimental to jumping could be a good thing. It will never be a good idea for a real horseman. Why? Because you’re not working in a partnership you’re working as a dictator, and that’s just not ok.
Emily
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IMO anyone who would jump a horse with equipment that did not allow the horse to use its neck freely for its balance is guilty of horse abuse. When jumping, the horse’s neck/head IS its balancing point.
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The Dovers’ Gogue is not elastic. Even if it was, as a fixed training tool, it is not meant to be jumped with.
We are not bashing the tool here. Just the rider and her misuse of it.
In Europe, there are dressage classes offered where you can ride with a Gogue. It is meant for beginners who aren’t able to put their horses round.
As a professional rider, one shouldn’t need a fixed tool like a Gogue to keep a horse round and connected while riding…
And the work on the flat and over fence is different.
I don’t mind a rider using draw reins; they can be released.
I do mind a rider using a fixed contraption, especially over fence where the horse can’t do a good bascule as shown in the video.
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