Oh, and I don’t know where the « De » comes from, but the name of the French riding master who invented the Gogue is simply René Gogue.
Like François Baucher (baucher bit) and the Capitaine Chambon.
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Wonderfully stated!!:yes:
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what a blast from the past… I loved Direct Merger so much :’(
I applaud all of your passion for your chosen sport. I was neither saying the gadget was bad or good, I do in fact own one from dover, it does in fact have elastic on it. I don’t see an issue with working in it on the flat and over small jumps. People aren’t perfect, they don’t always release, and they aren’t always making every hack a well-rounded training ride. I just don’t see the harm in giving my horse a little extra fitness in his hacks, so that when he performs or foxhunts he has a little extra booty power, and over all comfort to carry my potato self. I wonder if anybody notified this rider that her riding methods, and integrity were being openly discussed on such a large forum. I would be interested to hear from her point of view why she decided to use it.
Not really our job to notify her. She is a pro who posts lots of pics and videos of herself riding all over social media. Fair game for folks to discuss her training methods as shown. Riders at her level should not need a gadget to produce a correct horse with the muscle and balance to do their job, and the fence that sparked the original comment is not small.
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I can’t figure out if this poster is for real or not. Also, and please correct me if I’m wrong, this reads like I use this gadget because I’m too lazy to ride my horse correctly some times. Some days (hell most days) I feel like a sack of potatoes but that is not an excuse for me to strap my horses head down. It just means I have to try harder, invest in more lessons, and work on my own strength.
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Exactly, and since when does a gadget like this give a little extra “Booty Power” ???
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Probably from the idea that the horse ‘has to use the correct muscles’ during hacking/flat rides even though the rider isn’t actively working on asking the horse to do so. That’s the same reason the bungee is used on the flat and over fences is many hunter barns. Also tyhe same reason people use the Pessoa longing system
I don’t subscribe to this train of thought but have heard it many times from a variety of sources. Most commonly in the hunter discipline
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The person private messaged me, and said her vet at Rood & Riddle recommended it. She is aware of the thread.
No people aren’t perfect, but some of us are striving to be. Most of us here, are striving to be the best horsemen we can be.
If anything a De Gogue will reduce proper muscling.
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Oh bull. I’ve used a De Gogue lunging on a horse and it absolutely didn’t reduce proper muscling. But then again I know how to properly work a horse in hand…and that is a skill many even professionals do not have. I like a de gogue for some things. It encourages a horse to work and stretch in a long lower frame…,you don’t use it to tie a horses head down (it’s too small and tight if it set like that). I personally wouldn’t ride in it (I don’t need too). And it isn’t a tool I always grab. It wouldn’t be what I use when teaching a horse about contact or shifting balance more on the hind end…I long line or ride for that purpose. But it is a useful tool when rehabbing a horse with some back issues and is less restrictive than most side reins. But it does require use by an educated hand.
I DID have a very well know top trainer have me jump once in one YEARS ago. Not large jumps and with an extremely difficult horse and it was for a very specific purpose. It was not an everyday tool nor an every horse tool…and we only used it in that manner once. He configured it differently than I do for in hand work and for the life of me I cannot remember how (as I never used it that way again). I remember the issue with the horse (think extreme ears in the face)…and that while we tried the de gogue…both decided it didn’t help. She was a tough nut.
Its a tool. Not an evil tool. I also don’t think of it as a gadget or quick fix. It has a specific purpose and when used correctly is good for that purpose. I don’t agree with how this rider is using it.
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way to take one sentence of mine and run with it…I was meaning every day use, instead of actually riding a horse to a true connection.
I don`t even think anyone here said it was a bad tool at all.
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Well I took several of the posts that way. Some jumping all over GreenHunter.
clearly this instagram rider has issues. But I get a peeved when people do act like some tools are evil incarnate. Hell…I own a pair of draw reins. I can’t remember the last time I used them…but I have them because there are instances where they are useful. But I wouldn’t let most people ever use them or even suggest they use them.
I do use ground work fairly often. But I also will not let many people ever even lunge my horses as I’ve seen bad ground work injure or ruin good horses…and have had to correct bad practices the same as a bad ride…and I HATE that.
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The way I read that poster is she rides in a de gogue because she is too lazy to properly ride on some days. Most people here are objecting to jumping that height or being too lazy to actually ride the horse.
I have used one, lunging only, I have draw reins. I love these tools. I don’t love them to replace the rider actually riding. Clearly you know why and how to use a piece of equipment. But jumping that height? Nope I won’t do it. Using draw reins or a de gogue because I lack the will on a hack? Ya no. That shouldn’t ever be a thing and I doubt you put such tools on your horse because you just don’t feel like being an effective rider that day.
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I have just read thru this entire thread. How is this a productive discussion about someone whom nobody on this thread knows personally nor have you ever trained with, or witnessed her program first hand.
You are judging her entire livelihood off of a 15 sec video clip that she posted because she was happy to have one of her top level horses back in action after she felt him not feeling 100% so she gave him some time off. The posters that felt it productive to bring up the low points of this particular UL rider’s career is even more ridiculous. Who made people on this forum judge and jury? There are always 3 sides to every incident. Yes, she has made mistakes, could a person on here please raise their hand who hasn’t. She did the suspension aka she did the time and yet is still bashed for it.
now, for the one poster who brought up her first young rider horse, who tragically died at an event and making it sound like it was anything more than pure tradegy, I am disappointed in you.
I was there. I saw how a 19 year old girl who lost her best friend unexpectedly hurt. Having been in her shoes, I can assure you there is no pain like it. It happened 10 years ago. To read about it again today in such a negative light is disgusting. I would also like to correct your statement about the horse know as “Rowdy” to those of us that knew him. Do not over dramatize his injury. He sustained one broken vertebrae as a result in the fall from a pulmonary hemorrhage. It was not as a result from anything the rider did.
also, The post about hearing about her attitude (again, second hand so basically hearsay) and work ethic as a working student. I’ve been a working student, I’ve had working students. I know this may come as a shock but when you are dealing with teenagers or young adults not everyone gets along or works hard. That’s why they are partly called working students, they are learning all aspects of this job and how hard it is.
To summarize my feeling on this whole thread.
Judge people how you want to be judged, and pray you never do something that people disagree with or don’t understand because they are very quick to sling mud and drag you thru it. Grow up people, and find something better to do than trash people on a public forum for things quite frankly you have no first hand knowledge of.
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and now the houseguests!
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I brought up the horse that died at Red Hills because that is how I recall this rider’s name. With that memory. I suggested nothing devious or the like, I only factually stated that the horse died, it had an aneurysm and it had a broken neck. That’s what I recall. I’m positive she was crushed about his death.
Also… I do happen to have more ‘inside’ knowledge but I posted none of it here. Because I can not confirm what was said… but given how many people have said it in passing, I know what I believe is going on. She rides a lot of horses in a De Gogue. Her Instagram and social media proves this. Interesting how that’s not been a well received thing here. COTH is fairly accepting of most ideas… but if you see the kind of agreement seen here w/re: to use of the de gogue, you can bet it’s not something most people would do.
Simple fact, you’re cutting a corner.
And as far as judgement… don’t the horses deserve a #metoo moment? How many horses deserved to have their heads tied down or restricted and asked to jump a sizable fence ?(solid or stadium) If this rider is putting out public images that are borderline horse abuse, then why shouldn’t we point it out (to those who might think it’s ok since she is an ULR, that this is in fact NOT OK, in these applications.
Emily
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When you are in the public eye, you become open to public discussion. I actually thought this thread was pretty mellow considering how we all agreed the use of the DG was wrong in this case.
I will say the person I asked about, has messaged me and we had a nice civil chat. She was nothing but professional in our convo.
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@halt I guess by not spending my time on these forums I am considered a house guest…thanks for the compliment then.
Listen, this is an ugly discussion.
I think some pretty wild accusations based on opinion are being thrown around and I also feel like this is unfair attack.
i just hope that the people who have passed judgement on this situation without research or first hand knowledge on any of the situations never find themselves in this rider’s shoes.
I imagine given today’s communication skills you could contact this rider directly and state your grievensess against her directly instead of on a public forum.
We’re not… but since you don’t like that people brought up her yellow cards… the judge and jury of the horse show did decide that and imposed them on her so yea, I think they are fair game to discuss! That’s why these things are recorded.
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