Junior Rider Seeking Advice With Trainer Drama

[NancyM]

As you suspect… it’s time for you to move on. You are young, there will be many other possible futures for you, and many other people who come into your life in the equine industry- life is full of possibilities. You will learn things from each of them, and form your own opinions and skills, taking what you can from each. Your current situation is only your FIRST situation. You have learned much already, both about horses and riding, AND about people.

I don’t know how far you will get in the equine industry, you are right, it takes money to be successful, lots of it. Either family money, or money that you pay for in other ways. Don’t “prostitute” yourself. Like many of us, those super expensive horses may not be available for you to own… which is OK, because you will have the skill to make your own competitive horse from scratch, as most of us who are not the offspring of millionaires and billionaires do, and do successfully.

Enjoy the ride.

[Jealoushe]

@2DogsFarm

Uh… yeah, but with this added info you do come across as feeling more advanced than these “older amateurs”
Do you know for a fact how these riders were competing when they were your age?
Back when dimosaurs roamed the Earth (1960s) at 14 I was schooling Hunters (school horses) at 4’ - because that was the prevailing height to show.
When I was finally able to buy a horse of my own - at 39 - I had fulltime job that prevented me doing more than a half dozen shows - if that - per Season.
Still ended up Reserve AA & pinned in Medals.
I had little interest in Jumpers at the time. By my choice, not ability.
I regularly schooled myself over matural obstacles on trails & Training level obstacles on an Eventing course where I boarded.

While I agree you are being taken advantage of by this trainer. maybe your superior ability is not quite what you think compared to her other clients.

Why did you take personal offence to her post?

[juniordilemma]

So much respect for you and all amateurs. I definitely worded things poorly, and for that, I apologize. I know and love the ammys at my barn very well, and they are all women who ride for fun and because they love it. They are not competitive or concerned about showing, and mostly only go to shows to have a good time, which there is absolutely nothing wrong with. They are women who came into riding later in life and did not ride as juniors, or even until they were into their thirties really. Also didn’t mean to condemn hunters as “easier” or “lower level” than jumpers. I was referencing the fact that they show in mostly the non professional hunter classes at 2’3 or 2’6, and have no desire to show or jump higher, as they are more than happy where they are. I do by no means believe my riding ability is “superior” and I will always have more to work on. However, in terms of being the most “advanced” I am schooling and competing at the highest level of those at my barn currently.

I originally referenced being the most advanced rider at the barn in terms of explanation as to why I was the one schooling these horses for her. No offense intended.

[2DogsFarm]

My reply was mot meant “as personal offense”, just a 16yo can’t possibly know the past experiences of those she feels superior to.
Or that Way Back When, the Hunters were more of a challenge than she sees today.

From @juniordilemma 's reply above I see what she meant.
And her added info clears things up…at least for me.

[S1969]

@juniordilemma

I originally referenced being the most advanced rider at the barn in terms of explanation as to why I was the one schooling these horses for her. No offense intended.

There is no need to apologize. It sounds like you’re a talented rider, and you’re working with a trainer that sees your talent, but - for whatever reason - doesn’t attract other riders who are either willing or able to ride at that same level. Maybe they can, but don’t want to; maybe they also don’t want to be taken advantage of. It’s not really relevant to your situation.

In another barn, you might not be the most advanced rider and/or the only one who regularly competes and/or wins - and that would be good for you. No one can advance properly without good training and in my opinion, peers who also challenge and push you to improve. With luck - in a supportive way, not only in a competitive way.

[supershorty628]

What a bizarre thing to take personally and get hung up on.

Anyway. OP, I hope you keep us updated with what the terms of your potential new situation would be and what you decide to do. You’ve gotten some good advice already and I didn’t want to echo it, but did want to encourage you to keep us posted.

[Posting_Trot]

To the OP: you need to add another word to your vocabulary: “exploitation.”

The trainer is taking advantage of you. As many others have said. The fact that the trainer has a reasonably nice horse that you get to ride does not negate the fact that you’re being taken advantage of.

What if you fell off and broke your collarbone tomorrow? Would the trainer be offering to pay your medical bills? I think not.

And she’d find someone else to ride her horse and exploit them just as badly.

And she probably wouldn’t send you any flowers while you were in the hospital either.

The fact that you’re 16 and this situation has already been going on for several years makes the situation far worse, in my opinion. Can I ask, and I’m not trying to be snarky, what do your parents say? Have you talked with them about this and really levelled with them about the situation and how you feel about it?

[hoopoe]

Posting Trot I was just thinking about this light that went on. This has been going on for a while and the OP just 16. Labor laws, paid or no, are screaming here.

[MHM]

@hoopoe

Labor laws, paid or no, are screaming here.

Has anyone ever seen labor laws of any kind enforced in the horse industry? Paid overtime and the like?

Other than maybe a handful of places that are run as part of a hunt or country club, I have not.

[Equkelly]

@2DogsFarm

Uh… yeah, but with this added info you do come across as feeling more advanced than these “older amateurs”
Do you know for a fact how these riders were competing when they were your age?
Back when dimosaurs roamed the Earth (1960s) at 14 I was schooling Hunters (school horses) at 4’ - because that was the prevailing height to show.
When I was finally able to buy a horse of my own - at 39 - I had fulltime job that prevented me doing more than a half dozen shows - if that - per Season.
Still ended up Reserve AA & pinned in Medals.

Ummm ok? This is a weird thing for you to feel insecure about. I think most of us ammie’s know our former 16 yo barn rat selves would out ride adult me in a heartbeat. There’s no sense in comparing yourself to the teenage barn rats. They go to school and the barn and that’s it. And they have more energy and they bounce better. We do not. We have jobs, we probably only ride the one horse we pay for every month because that’s all we have time for. I tell all the teenagers at my barn when they’re doing all sorts of bareback shenanigans “you know if you knew me 15 years ago you guys would think I was really cool.”

It doesn’t change the fact that OP is riding at a higher level than everyone else at her barn. She sounds like she’s jumping pretty high and heavily involved in the training. That’s useful info to this situation because it sounds like she is adding a lot of value to the horses she rides because bringing them up through the levels. IMO that’s a bit more of an even exchange. Kid needs a horse, horse needs an experienced kid. Boom. If OP’s trainer could go lease this A show jumper out for 20k a year to another client… she would. She’s a trainer, that’s how she makes her money. The fact is, OP is probably riding the horse because the trainer cannot lease the horse out to just anybody for a decent amount of money so this is probably a pretty fair trade. The problem is, this trainer is not acting like it’s a fair trade. This trainer is acting like OP should be soooo lucky and gracious to be blessed with the opportunity. Of course it’s only fair if OP works every single day all day and endures screaming and abuse because she’s just that great of a trainer she’s worth it. That’s how these narcissistic abusive trainers think. They really think they are gods gift to the horse world and the rest of us should be gracious just to be in their presence.

[beowulf]

OP, I just want to say you sound like a wonderful young woman, light years ahead of your age. I agree with others you are being fully taken advantage of - when I was your age, I was in a similar position and it seemed like an enormous obstacle to “jump ship” and move on…

And now I am twice your age and have never once regretted walking away from that part of my life. In fact, I wish I had learned to walk away from positions that exploited me sooner.

I learned from going from barn to barn, that a horse on the backburner for a few years was always in that position for a reason. Be wary of people who act like this arrangement doesn’t equally (if not more) mutually benefit them.

Solidify – in writing – the lease with this nice amateur rider and her fancy horse. Have your parents involved, and enjoy. There are so many opportunities ahead of you, you will find another better one.

[Night_Flight]

Another thing for the OP to keep in mind is that it’s important in any sort of work situation to remember that you are replaceable. As much as it can be difficult to leave because you wonder if the other working students will be overworked in your absence or because there’s a particular horse who has thrived under your care and might not be understood by someone else, that is not your problem.

It’s very important to do what’s best for you, and sometimes that means that the resulting lack of help will be a wake-up call for your former employer (though in all likelihood they will just find someone else to exploit the same way until that person wakes up and moves on, etc.). Just remember that you do not need to feel guilty or responsible for what happens after you leave; your mental and physical health take precedence.

[Equkelly]

@Night_Flight

It’s very important to do what’s best for you, and sometimes that means that the resulting lack of help will be a wake-up call for your former employer (though in all likelihood they will just find someone else to exploit the same way until that person wakes up and moves on, etc.).

Also if a business can’t survive without exploiting someone it shouldn’t be a business.

[paintedpony]

OP, your situation is an example of why I would never allow our daughter to participate in any work to ride opportunities. Moving forward in the horse world, there are two things to remember:

1. Always make sure you ask " what will this cost " (know cost is not just monetary).

2. It is always better to be a customer and not an employee !

[Scribbler]

General comment.

The later clarifications by the OP make it clear this barn is not super high end, but just middling. OP I fully believe that you are talented and gutsy, but the fact you have basically been left on your own to develop and train these horses is a huge red flag about the trainer. Guatanteed when you start up with a new trainer there will be bad habits you need to unlearn. Also once you top out as the best rider in a program its time to move on even if the trainer is a good person.

This trainer clearly doesn’t attract ambitious riders who want to learn and compete. That’s fine. But it also shows that the trainer is not as high end as you think. If you want to continue developing its time to move on.

[OnDeck]

You’ve gotten great advice.

Working student positions can definitely end up this way but I wouldn’t avoid them all together like some posters are suggesting. The trick is to use the monetary value of your work to arrange the free services you’re getting. I’ve seen wayyy too many positions where work is compensated arbitrarily. The only reason to do this is to take advantage of the WS, I mean using an hourly wage to calculate compensation isn’t exactly rocket science.

So, next time you find yourself in a situation like that sit down with the trainer and figure out some details. How much would she pay you hourly if you were a straight employee? How much are her lessons typically? If she pays her employees $10/hr and her lessons are typically $40 then you get one lesson per four hours worked. Full stop. If for whatever reason that can’t happen then she pays you the difference (in actual money).

Next question to ask - is riding outside of lessons compensation or part of the job? If riding is compensation then it is important to remember you can ALWAYS choose to say no. Don’t go stranding your trainer with an extra horse to ride at 4PM but if you walk in the barn at 8AM and say “I don’t really feel well today, I think I’m just going to work and go home” then you should be able to do that. If riding is part of the job then you should figure out if you’ll be paid hourly or by the ride.

[vxf111]

It may help to ease the blow when you leave to graft a little white lie on to the reason. If you want you want to step away from working so much to focus on school that may be taken a bit better by the current trainer than if you say you’re leaving because you refuse to keep working so much for so little. Presumably you won’t be showing as much once you transition to the new horse and you can plausibly plead that just riding (not working and riding) is giving you more time for school. You can even have your parents provide cover. They can be the ones who say you need to work fewer hours because of school demands.

Agree with everyone else that it’s time to go. Good luck.

[Bogie]

@OnDeck

So, next time you find yourself in a situation like that sit down with the trainer and figure out some details. How much would she pay you hourly if you were a straight employee? How much are her lessons typically? If she pays her employees $10/hr and her lessons are typically $40 then you get one lesson per four hours worked. Full stop. If for whatever reason that can’t happen then she pays you the difference (in actual money).

This is terrific advice. It is always important to establish how much your time is worth when going into this kind of relationship. Even if no money changes hands. It’s useful for you to think about your time being worth $$ too. Then you can spend it wisely.

[Fiesta01]

@2DogsFarm

While I agree you are being taken advantage of by this trainer. maybe your superior ability is not quite what you think compared to her other clients.

A little sharp for no reason to an obviously intelligent young woman looking for advice. Whatever level of ability she has presently, she will continue to improve with her attitude and work ethic.

[LCDR]

OP, since you are competing I assume that you completed your SafeSport training. Did you see anything in the training that applies to your situation in the barn and with your trainer?