I guess I’m going to put on my RBG collar and dissent here. It sounds like you are riding a pretty nice horse if he’s competing and winning at the A’s. Yes I understand you brought him
Back to work, but the quality has to be there. And you learned a lot in the process of bringing him back.
Wasn’t clear if you paid his show bills and if you show him exclusively.
Let’s say he’s $30k/year to lease. Add another $750/no for his board, vet, farrier. That’s $3250 a month.
At 16 you are looking at minimum wage in the real world but let’s be nice and make it $10/hr. That’s 325 hours a month you’d have to work to pay for all of that.
It also sounds like you are quite involved in the management and running of the barn, not just mucking stalls 8 hours a day, so you are gaining valuable knowledge, and. Ie you are starting to ride even more nice horses.
If the personal situation has devolved then either resolve it with a mature discussion or, leave and find a new situation. But it doesn’t sound to me like you are greatly being taken advantage of, and it’s appropriate you pay for lessons.
Well, minimum wage varies by state. PLUS the shortage of workers. Right now in MA minimum wage is 13.75, barn jobs start at at least 15, and McDonalds can’t get enough people to stay open at 17. Besides the point, but.
Also, while we don’t know the minutia of this situation, I think we can all agree that young women and teenagers are routinely taken advantage of in working student positions. Wouldn’t it be great if all of us Adult Ammys, who mostly pay these trainer’s bills, didn’t support the trainers that take advantage of young women? I recognize that it can difficult to find a barn, a trainer, and to know the details of a working student position, but I can tell you that if I found out that my trainer was taking advantage of her working student, they would get an earful from me and I’d likely be looking for a new trainer/barn.
I agree. So you were around 12 when you started and you had a nice horse to ride when you were all but a beginner and of not much value, work wise. You’ve become a skilled rider because of the opportunities you have had that you never could have afforded. You did not train this horse, creating value, you were given lessons and rides on this horse as he rehabbed. Your trainer did not have this horse just waiting for the miracle rider. She had him because there was value there. If an intermediate young teen could bring him back, he didn’t require you, he required rides under a trainer’s eye. The same with the other horses you are riding. You are not being asked to ride three year olds fresh off the track. That would be training. You are riding horses with a good skill set already installed. This benefits you more than it benefits the horse.
Many, many barns run on working student labor. It is not the norm for an A barn, but there are tons of threads on here about how many of us were barn rats, happy to get the experience and the occasional ride or lesson. We bemoan the fact that these opportunities rarely exist for kids today. Now here we have exactly the situation we all would have killed for BITD and suddenly the trainer is an abusing meanie, taking advantage of an excellent rider. In your first years, the value you received was far more than the value you gave. Now, it seems the value is more equal or perhaps you are giving more than you are receiving, but you are ready to move on the minute you think she might be getting more from you.
As far as not having breaks or eating lunch, that is on you. Stop, get a drink, wash your hands and face, eat a protein bar. Is your trainer standing right there, hounding you every moment to never stop working? If so, just say, “I need something to eat.” If she says, “you can’t eat, there is too much work.” Then yes, you should probably look for other opportunities. If the need to not stop because there is so much work is because you decided that is the case, you need to change you mindset.
As far as your experience at the show, why should you not take care of the horse? And of course you can’t jump without her there.
The people in spic and span barns pay for the labor to make that happen. Your trainer has a different business model and a different tolerance for tidiness.
Yeah, it is clearly the 16 year old’s fault that an adult is putting so much pressure on her that she feels like she does not have time to stop and eat lunch. Also, a protein bar isn’t lunch.
OP - you are clearly mature for your age, and sound like a hard worker and a skilled rider. I’m sure you will have no trouble finding future opportunities. Listen to your gut - if you feel like you’re being taken advantage of, you probably are.
The mentality that kids should put up with anything to get riding time is unhealthy. It is what allows even worse things, like sexual abuse, to flourish in the horse world.
You know this high dudgeon on your part only works when you cut off the rest of that paragraph, right??
If this trainer could lease this horse out for 30k a year, she’d be doing that. I bet if she could lease this horse out for 10k a year she’d be doing that too but she’s not and there’s a reason for that. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY gives up that kind of money so their working student can ride. She is a trainer, this is how she makes her money. If she truly has a pot of gold, she’s not sitting on it.
She probably cannot lease the horse out because 1) she’s awful as a trainer and nobody wants to deal with her shit. 2) the horse is too green. 3) the horse isn’t completely sound. 4) the horse isn’t really that nice.
Now can we please stop writing off abuse as acceptable in our sport? Stop glorifying “working student” positions where kids are clearly being exploited. Just because it happened to you doesn’t mean it should happen to the next generation. Also nobody said all working student positions are unhealthy but this one clearly is so let’s stop acting like young people should feel lucky for the opportunity when she’s getting screamed at over supplements.
Nope. This is Labor Day weekend and I’m going to point out this sort of treatment is the whole reason unions came about. Most, if not all, states have laws that if you work x amount of hours you’re entitled to a break and/or a lunch period.
or a lunch period.
I believe the wording is “undisturbed lunch period” or similar
but nothing else about OP’s arrangement are following any gov rules
Right, but to me, the OP seemed to be saying, “I don’t take lunch because there is too much to do.” Not, “my boss doesn’t let me take lunch.” And, as I said, if it is the latter, she needs to move on.
This hits the nail on the head with most of these work to ride situations.
It’s both, that’s why it’s an even exchange. The horse needs miles with a good rider and the kid needs to ride. Both parties are benefiting pretty evenly from this arrangement. The trainer thinking she is entitled to additional compensation is ridiculous.
That’s the same thing. Whether they flat out tell you “you cannot take a lunch” or they overwork your and understaff their business so much that taking a lunch wouldn’t be realistic it is exactly the same thing and just as unethical and abusive.
Edit- and if you honestly think it’s as simple as OP saying “hey trainer I’d like to have my lunch now” then you should feel lucky you’ve never dealt with the type of abusive work environments that the rest of us are talking about.
General comment.
One of the big lessons in the horse world (and in life) is learning when to say no.
No, I won’t ride that horse that takes off bucking all the time.
No, I won’t work for 14 hours straight without a break.
No, I won’t work for a rate of compensation that comes out to fifty cents an hour.
No, I won’t let anyone speak to me that way.
No, I will not tolerate (insert form of bad behavior here) in order to ride a nicer horse.
Everyone needs to learn where to draw those lines, and the lines might be different for different people. One person might think it’s fun to ride the horse that takes off bucking all the time.
But it’s important to learn that skill early, because otherwise there will always be people ready to take advantage of those who can’t say no, in one way or another.
Except we have no idea what the truth is. Is the trainer watching every second? Probably not. She shouldn’t even ask permission to take lunch. And, once again, I said if she is not being permitted to take lunch, she should leave.
Hey there OP. A lot of folks have provided valuable perspective to you. I don’t need to rehash much of that. HOWEVER, I noticed comments in your first post, as well as this post, and both indicate you have a lot of anxiety over the potential fall out from leaving, and this trainer badmouthing you once you leave.
I’d like to offer a few words of wisdom based on my life experience with respect to that aspect of your situation.
First off - hugs to you. Change is hard, and leaving jobs and barns is hard. It’s hard for adults with years of experience and financial security, and well established friend/professional networks in the sport. You are 16… it’s VERY hard for you, I’m sure. My guess is this might be the first time you have left either a job or a barn… much less both.
A hard truth is that there is almost always a bit of gossip and fallout in the horse industry when someone leaves a barn… either an employee or a client. It’s not fun or pleasant. But you can’t control that part of the fallout. The only part of the situation you can control is HOW you go about leaving. It might be unpleasant and gossipy for a few months, but not result in a long term ‘burned bridge’ if you handle it in a standard way. If I were in your shoes… that’s what I would focus on doing. Accept that the trainer is going to react poorly, other people might engage in some gossip, but hold your head high, and don’t do anything on your end that will mean burning any bridges unnecessarily.
Two standard rules apply to leaving these sorts of situations. Employees should provide employers at least 2 weeks notice prior to quitting a job. Even working students. And clients boarding at a barn should provide 30 days notice prior to leaving. They can pull their horse with no notice, but pay an extra 30 days of board… that works just fine too, although it can lead to more drama. As far as a lease horse goes, I’m not the most knowledgeable person on these forums to speak to that issue, but it seems like there isn’t an actual written contract covering the terms of your ride on the current trainer’s horse… Sooooo… 2 weeks to 30 days notice regarding termination of your ride on this horse seems appropriate. Maybe the trainer wants to immediately lease it to someone else, or maybe no one else at the barn is really able to take over the ride just yet. Whatever the case… you can offer notice, and then prepare yourself that the trainer may choose to pull the horse immediately just to be vindictive. It happens. If it does… try and continue to muck stalls for the full two weeks, and then leave and don’t look back.
These are pretty much the widely accepted standards for how to respectfully leave a job or barn. For sure, whenever an employee or a horse is experiencing abusive or unsafe conditions… leaving a job, pulling a horse from boarding at a given barn, or terminating a lease on a horse with no notice may be called for. Your situation sounds pretty crummy… But if it is at all possible to give a period of two weeks to thirty days notice… it’s really best to do so.
Remember… how you leave reflects upon you. The horse industry is small. If other barns and trainers hear that you provided appropriate notice to this trainer (who likely has a reputation for being a bit nasty)… well… that will reflect REALLY positively on you. People really respect folks who conduct themselves well in crummy situations. If you give notice like this, and the trainer still runs around badmouthing you? It will reflect extra poorly on her.
Another thought… and I offer this because I often have anxiety when setting boundaries with assertive people in real life (and I am 42 and have been practicing it for years professionally and personally… ugggh… it’s still hard for me)… I suggest you sit down with a parent or a trusted friend in advance of actually giving notice to your trainer/employer, and practice the actual conversation you plan on having with her when you give notice. Maybe practice it a few times, so you go into the meeting having an idea of what you will say or do in response to the trainer if she gets hostile or pushy with you in the moment. Perhaps make some notes on paper, and an outline of the conversation, in advance. Make certain to either do numbers or bullet points concerning key things you want to say to her. Try and keep it to 5 or less key points you want/need to make. Then… when you do actually sit down with the trainer and give notice, bring those notes with you just to make sure you don’t forget to cover those key points in the moment of the conversation. Giving notice is really stressful, and it’s easy to forget key issues that need to be addressed, or key things you wish to say.
One last thought… document your conversation with the trainer immediately after you give notice, by sending her an email, or a text message that is long enough to be unambiguous. The reason you utilize email in this sort of situation, is that it is easier to write politely and professionally, and it firmly establishes the date and time she received notice from you. Given that you are 16, you can copy your parents on that email to the trainer as well… and it’s REALLY wise to do so.
You might already be on top of everything I’ve laid out… but I thought it wouldn’t hurt to comment and speak to this aspect of leaving your current situation. Having a plan on the specifics of HOW you will go about leaving can really help with anxiety. Once you leave, if gossipy people in the future try and make crummy comments about you either to your face or behind your back, you can simply respond with, “I gave notice, and did my best to be fair when I left that position at that farm with that trainer.” That’s all you need to say, and the trainer badmouthing a 16 year old, especially one who gives standard notice? That really reflects horribly on her.
Best of luck -
No, actually it works with the rest of the paragraph, too. It is the adult’s responsibility to look out for teenagers they employ. The OP shouldn’t have to ask for a lunch break. The adult should be making sure she takes appropriate breaks every day.
You imply that if the trainer isn’t right there hounding her, then it’s her own fault for not taking a lunch break. Or that she needs to change her “mindset”. But it is not her fault- it is the trainer’s fault for exploiting a 16 year old who is so worried about pleasing the trainer so she doesn’t lose the ride on nice horses that she feels like she can’t stop working for a few minutes to have lunch.
If she was a new hire, I would agree, but this is a years long relationship. She says she worries about the barn work not getting done, not attempting to please her trainer over worries about losing the rides.
She is working part time most of the year. She is not the difference between a going concern and the barn falling down.
This is why trading for stuff rarely works out. Both parties think they are getting screwed.
OP, take the amount your trainer charges for lessons and rides. Add that up over the course of the week. Then figure out what your hourly wage should be and how many hours you need to work to ‘buy’ those rides. If the numbers don’t come out right for you, leave.
Saying “no” isn’t a skill it’s a privlege.
It’s time we start holding people accountable for exploiting minors instead of gaslighting minors into thinking that this is ok.
Couple of thoughts here to add to the above advice that is pretty much unanimous without rehashing it.
These are things you just need to think about, not going to tell you what to do, don’t have enough information or specifics.
Just going by what you have told us, first off, no trainer is going to “ make your dream come true”. Only you can do that, trainer can give you some basic tools to develop yourself but you need to make good choices on your journey. Good choices are often very difficult in the short term but in the long term will get you much further towards your goal then the easy choices.
Big thing, IMO, is dont think your trainer is what you think she is. You clarified the “A shows” are Local A shows and barnmates show low level Hunters a few times a year, huge difference. In successful A barns a “Junior” is competing in specific divisions, 3’6” or 3’3” Hunters and, IIRC, 1.3m. Jumpers. Not just a rider under 18. Thats the vocabulary clients in barns with knowledgeable trainers would use.
Dont say this to throw shade on you, say it because It doesn’t seem like you have been taught what you should have been. Take a lesson from another trainer, sit around and watch all the lessons you can watch the Pro school and watch the warm up ring at shows, open your ears and eyes. THINK.
Its tough at 16 when you don’t own a horse, we all know that. Its tougher when what you think you are earning with grunt work is not helping you on your journey. Realize trainer here is a bully, thats never helped anybody. Not doing you any good here. THINK.
Obviously the OP has gotten value from the situation. But the question is whether the value makes up for the emotional abuse. I expect that the pressures on her have evolved over time too, and that she is being treated differently at 16 than at 12.
Anyone who feels tgey are in a situation where they are being taken advantage of and treated poorly should leave despite the apparent value of the wage or benefits. Period.
OP knows nothing else and is terrified that leaving means she will step off the edge of the known world into a void. When in fact this barn is merely her starter childhood barn and she’s ready to move on.
Staying in exploitative situations as a teen is evrn worse than as an adult because it shapes your self image and idea of how the world works.
