Junior Rider Seeking Advice With Trainer Drama

[findeight]

IMO much of the fear of changing trainers springs from not realizing most other good barns do not operate the same way and most other trainers don’t bully kids trying to get saddle time. You cant know until you visit other barns and/or closely watch other trainers at shows.

There are other horses to ride and other places to learn from other trainers. They may not be easy to find right away but being bullied just to ride doesn’t develop confident riders.

Really hate to say it but Mom needs to know whats going on and participate in this process. You have to talk to her and, please, have her sign a written agreement for labor or using any horse which most decent barns require anyway. Fact this one doesn’t is another sign its not what it should be, dare nit ask if this barn carries liability that would cover OPs broken are, leg, jaw or whatever suffered riding at trainers “request”. Can guess the answer to that one.

[Equkelly]

Another thought: (yea sorry this topic gets me heated) But OP, you might want to look into barns with IEA teams. You don’t have to own your own horse, it’s not that expensive, and kids who grow up being a little scrappy and riding any horse they can because mom and dad won’t buy or lease usually do really well.

I’d also say maybe have your mom sit down and read these comments. A lot of times non horsey parents are just clueless to some of the BS in our sport.

[hoopoe]

I will state again, you and your parents should review Safe Sport and the role bullying and withholding favor plays.

If you give notice and the trainer withdraws riding privilege I would ask, how much are you going to be paid for your labor? If the answer is zero then you are under no obligation to stay

[BrendaJane]

I believe you missed the part where the trainer is complaining to others that the OP is only sitting around .

[BrendaJane]

It is both.

And somtimes it is a skill to walk away when the road is unclear ahead.
It serves women to learn to do this more often.
First when it’s not important.
Then have the knowledge of knowing how and when to do so when it counts.

[Midge]

@BrendaJane

I believe you missed the part where the trainer is complaining to others that the OP is only sitting around .

Do you mean when she spoke to the OP’s mother?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@hoopoe

If you give notice and the trainer withdraws riding privilege I would ask, how much are you going to be paid for your labor? If the answer is zero then you are under no obligation to stay

This is true. But OP should document in writing… with her parents copied… that she offered the trainer two weeks notice in an effort to be responsible and considerate, and the trainer decided to withhold all compensation, and immediately terminate the relationship without a standard notice period.

Document document document. Keep it polite… but also crystal clear.

[Ghazzu]

I suspect the truth in this situation is somewhere between the OP’s impressions and those she ascribes to the trainer.
Any road, under the circumstances, I do believe she would benefit by moving on.
Either she will discover what a sweet deal she had, or she will find that she is less overwhelmed with barn work and more able to focus on being 16.

[Bluey]

OP, you had all kinds of advice already, will add one more story, a caveat that when you go give notice, how the trainer reacts may surprise you and it may not be for the reasons you think and won’t make sense, so be prepared to slow things down, ask questions maybe, or disengage gingerly, with the least drama possible.

When (in Europe) I had finished and was now a riding instructor, not any more an assistant, there were two of us terminating at the same time, we were supposed to give notice to our BNT and it was expected we would be moving on.

Well, that morning another BNT in the same area, that I knew was going to have an opening, talked to me and offered me a position in his barn, a top of the line one.
I said sure, was very interested, but before talking about said position I first had to give notice, which I had an appointment for that in the afternoon and I would after come talk to him.

When I gave notice, my trainer offered me to stay as an instructor and I declined, really needed to move on to keep gaining more experience.
He acted surprised and became agitated and very insistent, wanted me to stay or else, offered a higher salary.
I was having trouble getting his attention as I was insisting I really needed to move on, when he finally blurted, hurt, that I was going to work for this other BNT trainer, why I didn’t want to stay.
I denied it, I wanted to move, period, but didn’t say, yes, I had been offered a position with this other trainer, didn’t have time to say so.
Sadly I could not get him calmed down and finally he dismissed me, still very mad.

I went to the other trainer and excused myself saying I needed to move on to a different area, another discipline or country, go find more diverse experiences.
I didn’t mention the other trainer having a meltdown about me leaving, much less that he would be furious if I were to work for him, no need to add to the strange situation, didn’t feel like hurting any more my trainer by accepting this trainer’s offer and being in the same place, causing problems between them and definitively for myself.
That trainer was wonderful, he called around and found two excellent positions for me.
I accepted one and after my 30 days left, sad that at the end things had been so mixed up.

OP, as you can see by the several stories presented, it really is time for you to move barns, is what will make you a better rounded equestrian, to see all different ways there are to manage in the horse world.
That alone is a good reason to leave and don’t be surprised if your current trainer resents that you are leaving, for whatever reasons, even some you may not understand, like my trainer being jealous of the other trainer.
We just never really know and some times, it is not even about us when things don’t work out.

Good luck with whatever you decide, sounds like you will do fine no matter what happens.

[juniordilemma]

Thanks everyone for everything so far. Been very busy over the last 24 hours, and will probably have an update on certain things tomorrow. Just wanted to quickly come on to make some clarifications. I did not at all expect this many responses, and while I do appreciate them, I think I’ve gotten valuable opinions from both sides, and I don’t want anyone on here to be nitpicking each other for little comments, as I didn’t mean to start any drama.

I kept a lot of this from my parents, to be honest. They are not at all horsey people, and trainer initially proposed the working student thing as more of “come out during the summer to hang out for the day, it will be fun and you can ride a lot more!” The work and responsibilities then snowballed, along with the hours. This has been an ongoing issue, and my mom initially broached the subject over a year ago. I defended my trainer endlessly, and swept a lot of it under the rug, because I didn’t want my parents to make me leave. It was brought up again over the winter, and I refused to admit that anything was going on, again mostly because I felt a lot of loyalty to my trainer, and I didn’t want my parents to force me to leave the horse. It came up again in the aftermath of the show I mentioned, and that’s when I started seriously considering the situation and thinking about leaving.

I pay for one lesson a week, and my parents are generous enough to pay for the other. That is two lessons a week, paid for. I pay all of my show fees, and cover trainer fees at shows when possible. This is hard to manage, but I make it work through not entering full divisions at the rated shows, showing out of the trailer when possible, and braiding for other barns to make money. What I cannot cover in terms of trainer fees at shows, my parents pay for. I am very grateful for their support. The only thing I am working off is rides outside of lessons. Doing the math, the numbers do not come out right.

I am aware of what a “junior” is and “the” juniors are. I thought including the division I show in would be specific enough to make my situation recognizable, and I do not at all want this post to be brought to someone like my trainer’s attention, as that would certainly exacerbate issues. In every barn I have been in, riders under 18 have referred to themselves as juniors and those over, who are not professionals, as ammys. This may be a different case for you, and it may differ area to area. That’s just my personal experience. Again, I’m 16, so I’m no professional, and I’m never going to use the correct terminology 100% of the time.

I’ve been riding since I was five, and have ridden at four different barns. Current barn is the fourth. Every time I have left a barn has been amicable, and only ever to follow a trainer, or because the trainer at the facility told me that if I wasn’t able to lease, it wouldn’t be a good fit for me in the long run.

Parents are 100% aware of the situation currently, and we have had several discussions as a family on the matter.

I rode IEA for a year when I was 14, at a friend’s barn. This was in concurrence with riding at current barn. I thought it would be fun, and a more affordable way to get out and show. My zone has very few shows locally, and I ended up having to travel out of state for 4/5 shows. Factoring in hotel costs along with gas mileage made these IEA shows much more expensive than showing locally, as I am lucky to have a facility within 45 minutes of me that hosts A rated shows.

Horse has a highly specific medical issue that sufficiently decreases his lease value to the point that it really would not be economically profitable to lease him out. Those who said that if the trainer could lease him out, she would, were right. That’s mostly the reason I didn’t want to give specifics, as I felt even a little bit of information could lead to someone recognizing the horse and bringing it up to me in person. I don’t want any of my close barn friends to know that I am leaving the barn until I am able to tell them myself.

I did not expect to be able to jump without my trainer at the last show, I expected her to be present, so that I could jump. I paid for her time and felt that I deserved a trainer who arrived to the show on time, as a client. She was quite literally not on the show grounds except for when I was in the ring. I will always do the work to care for that horse, but I did not feel comfortable being left on the show grounds for effectively an entire day with no supervision. Even a bit of direction would have been nice.

Thank you all for the advice again, and I will sure to update as soon as I have some more time.

[Midge]

Wait. You only work for outside rides? No. No, no, no.

[BrendaJane]

Oh Jebus
You not only work but also PAY?!

Jinkies.

I am glad to hear that your parents are on board.
Being horsey is one thing when it comes to picking out a mount or saddle
But not every nuttery in the barn is covered under ‘you wouldn’t understand as non-horse peep’

Yeah, tuck yout ears in, kiddo.
this will be interesting.
I don’t think the trainer will be happy to see you leave.

(and this is why those working student situations get muddy. The lines between paying customer and staff get blurred. It seldom benefits the inexperienced worker bee. Just like jobs demanding you keep your pay grade to yourself a reaping the benefit of paying you less than you deserve)

On the brighter side,
The trainer has provided you with an invaluable life lesson.
So not a complete bungle.

[Equkelly]

@juniordilemma

I kept a lot of this from my parents, to be honest. They are not at all horsey people, and trainer initially proposed the working student thing as more of “come out during the summer to hang out for the day, it will be fun and you can ride a lot more!”

Again, not your fault. This usually only happens to the kids with non horsey parents because horsey parents would know better. I never had to defend my trainer because my parents never asked questions but if they would have asked, I’d have done the exact same thing. I’m glad you’re talking to them now, I know that had to be really hard.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

OP - hang in there. You sound like a wonderful 16 year old to have around any program… willing to pay for lessons, and work around the barn to do extra riding, and it sounds like you have a good work ethic and practical attitude with respect to showing.

I’m glad you are talking to your parents. I’m sorry for the stress you are experiencing. FWIW - even if the trainer does figure out this post is about her, you haven’t said anything that come across as ‘out of line’ or as though you are bashing or smearing her. Try not to worry. Just make your plan on your next steps, and then put it into play. Hopefully it will go ok, and before you know it, you will be learning new things, making new friends and positive connections, and growing from the ordeal.

[S1969]

@Midge

Right, but to me, the OP seemed to be saying, “I don’t take lunch because there is too much to do.” Not, “my boss doesn’t let me take lunch.” And, as I said, if it is the latter, she needs to move on.

How is that not the same thing? Unless you’re the owner, it IS the same thing.

[S1969]

@Gardenhorse

No, actually it works with the rest of the paragraph, too. It is the adult’s responsibility to look out for teenagers they employ. The OP shouldn’t have to ask for a lunch break. The adult should be making sure she takes appropriate breaks every day.

This is actually the law, and it pertains to all employees, not just teenagers.

But - yes - we should not be expecting teenagers to stand up to their bosses and demand their fair employee rights. Come on. That’s expecting too much.

As for the OP getting value from this relationship - of course she has. But she’s in a position now that makes impossible to say no to “more value”…could she school another horse? Yes! Does she want to? Does working with a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th horse make her a better rider? Maybe not, or not right now. Or she might have school work that needs to be done. Or she wants to spend the weekend with her friends.

At this point in time - she doesn’t have control of her schedule, and apparently - is not interested in more work. But is pressured do to more. That is wrong, regardless of her age.

The only situation where that is acceptable is when you are the owner. That was your choice. Your employees (working students and other indentured servants) are not responsible for your success/failure.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I understand why the OP doesn’t want to offer too many identifying details, but if this trainer is half as wonderful as the trainer believes herself to be, she can and should afford to hire additional, paid permanent staff. Period. And if she can’t on her current budget, then find a way to do so.

I only began riding seriously and regularly as an adult, but at every barn I’ve ridden at–and the higher-end barns with which I’m familiar–there’s always been the barn rat/working student contingent. I understand most people in this thread have had this experience, but regardless of the knowledge and opportunities it might offer, so many kids are taken advantage of, as a result. I always accepted it as a good thing, perhaps because of my own experiences in the arts (where working for free and feeling grateful for working for free, or paying to work, is also often considered part of paying your dues), but experiences like the OP’s have made me more and more sour about the idea. It’s one thing to be working off lessons, board, or a lease fee in a specific agreement, and another thing to be just a general unpaid dogsbody. Even if it’s exciting at first just to be at a barn and rub shoulders with higher-level riders and ride nicer horses, people seem to burn out quickly (at least, they do with many less-than-grateful employers).

[tohorse]

When I was a working student around your age, my job was pretty much riding only and do some grooming help on the shows - tacking up, warm up, holding horses etc. Yes, it meant that I would ride anything and everything, including breaking young, barely (if) halter broke stallions, but also jumping and warming up GP horses, showing to buyers if neccessary. There was an understanding that I would not show unless the right horse came around and the owners wanted me to show the horse. That never materialized in my case. I spent about 2-3 years in that arrangement and learned immensely and went on to show young horses for a breeding farm later. Now I didn’t get paid for any of this (nor did I pay!), BUT about twice a week I’d get jumping lessons on all of the said horses. It really was a fantastic education for me and it lead to paid positions later and an offer to ride for a household name barn in my teens. Now I’m just an ammy, but feel 100% competent enough to avoid “programs”.
Maybe I got lucky with that one, but just to let you know - if you are good and reliable there will be opportunities elsewhere that will work out much better for you. I also had a friend who was in a similar, far less glamorous situation than mine (she did muck a lot of stables and hand walked horses overnight etc. - she lived right next to the barn), BUT she got regular haul in lessons with BNTs paid for by the BO and a very, very nice horse to herself that was stepping down from the GP (the BO actually ended up gifting the horse!) on which she won rider of the year awards and many, many ribbons for years as a junior rider.

[touchstone]

OP had received lots of good advice here about whether to stay or move on.

And I think her assessment that leaving will be effectively burning a bridge may be true. OP knows this trainer the best.

My only advice would be: If you leave, go out of your way not to try and burn the bridge. Have a nice polite explanation for why you are leaving–some version of not a good fit right now, perhaps because of school demands or something else. And then stick to it, without trying to litigate all the things that trainer did wrong, by exploiting you, or abandoning you at the horse show, or whatever else. I would approach her with the information you are leaving, the pre-rehearsed explanation, a thank you for the opportunities and the education, and some notice, so you are not leaving trainer or students high and dry.

It is possible that none of this will pay off. But, IME, time heals a lot of wounds. And it may end up being worth it for you to be able to maintain a courteous relationship with this trainer in the future.

Also, in life, there is rarely a downside to being the bigger person.

[juniordilemma]

Probably will have a longer update in the next week or so, but for now, I’ll try to just explain the past couple of days. Had some long hard conversations with adults in my life, and I am finally understanding that there were many aspects of my relationship with my trainer that were wildly inappropriate. I met her when I was 12, and I definitely idolized her to some extent. When she showed me attention and special favor I would have done anything to keep it. I spent so much time at the barn, especially during some difficult times in my personal life, and she convinced me that she could be a confidante.

I think she saw a lot of herself and her childhood in me, so as she attempted to “mentor me,” I ended up isolated from the other working students in a way. None of this had anything to do with horses, and while I again won’t get into specifics, those familiar with the situation have told me she was manipulating me and the actions that they witnessed or that were described to them were not at all appropriate of her as an adult in a position of power over me. There’s still a part of me that sees her as a parental figure, and it’s really hard for me to accept that she was doing anything other than looking out for me, though I’ve been told otherwise.

My personal view of her definitely put me in a difficult position when doing work for her, as I never wanted to say no, and didn’t feel that I could after all that I owed her. If she said jump, I said how high. If she told me that I didn’t need to eat lunch and that I had to keep working, I agreed earnestly. I know a lot of this is on me for agreeing to these things, and being more assertive is something that I will have to work on for myself in the future.

I went back to the barn late on Saturday night as she asked me to help her with some extra things. Before leaving I attempted to have a healthy conversation with her about eventually taking a step back from the barn to focus on school. I mentioned college applications and that my grades were a priority at the moment, so I thought it would be best to take time away from working to focus on that. I did attempt to give two weeks notice, and profusely thanked her for everything she had done for me. Her reaction was frankly scary, and told me everything I needed to know. Full on screaming, accusing me of betraying her, claiming that I was abandoning horses that I promised to school for her, personal insults, and much more. It was when she started insulting me and my family personally that I really knew it was over. She disregarded my attempt at two weeks notice, and vascilated between trying to guilt me into staying, and saying that I betrayed her and she never wanted to see me again. I was accused of leaving for a specific one of her competitors multiple times.

It’s unbelievably difficult to leave, but even more so to think that she wasn’t the person I thought she was. I am very adverse to change, and her outburst scared me to an extent that made this even worse. I will fully admit that I spent the rest of the weekend (and Labor Day!) crying. I think I’m past the tears, but it just hurts so so much. I thought that I would get to say goodbye to my friends and to the horse who’s been my partner for three years, but that obviously is no longer possible. I miss my boy so much that I’ve been tearing up every time I think about him. I know he’s a horse, but I just would have liked some closure on that end. He may not have feelings in the exact same way that humans do, but I don’t like thinking that he’ll just believe I left him.

Currently, I am doing everything I can to take my mind off of it for the moment. I did go through the safesport regulations with my parents and while I still don’t like to admit it, there is a pretty hefty case to be made in pretty much every regard except for sexual.

Thank you everyone for all of the support. It has been incredibly hard for me to admit that any of this is even happening, and it is wonderful to have such a solid support base. I think that there will always be a small part of me that will ignore all of my own feelings, and believe that she is right when she said I will never be successful without her, but I am doing my best to focus on the positives. I don’t know what I will do about the safesport allegations at the moment, as it makes me physically sick to even think about. I really thought she cared about me and was trying to help me in every way she could, but reading through very clear regulations brought up a lot that there was no way I could deny to those in my life who had witnessed my treatment first hand. I’m also not trying to play the victim, as I know I could have said no and walked away at any time. I put myself in that situation, and I was responsible for keeping myself in it. I will regret that personally for a very long time. I know that I need to make a point of allowing myself to say no, to disappoint others, to focus on myself first, but I have a very long way to go.

Thank you again to everyone. There is a lot in motion as to my riding in the future, and if anyone is still interested, I can update about that once more specifics are sorted out.