Just need some perspective today

TLDR: I know this is probably a resounding yes from some of you, but have you chosen to limit what you do with your horse or opt out of certain activities because the activity just sets your horse up for a melt down? Does it continue to bother you that you can’t do those certain activities? (For example, trail riding in a group larger than 3 or 4.)

The long story:

I have been riding since I was eleven. Totally non-horsey family. Did pony club. Worked on a Morgan farm through college. Have tried a variety of horse activities. I consider myself a solid intermediate rider, but my confidence falters easily if a horse plays up too much—probably can attribute that to having spent most of my life having to ride horses that are green or have issues due to the budget I have to spend on a horse.

My current horse is a 12-year-old quarter horse mare who definitely had less training than I thought when I purchased her in December of 2020. And what wasn’t apparent when I tried her is that she also has a pretty reactive personality. I was able to trace her path to me and speak to previous owners, and this reactive, or “quirky” as the last owner called it, personality has been with her from the get go.

The first summer I had her there were definitely some over-reactions that scared me and I considered moving her on. My barn owner (former trainer who has decided in her mid-sixties to not train anymore) thought we could work through it and I just needed to “man-up.” In September that year I sent her to my barn owner’s trainer (natural horsemanship basics) for a month. I know a month isn’t long, but he only had that available in his schedule and he knew he was sending her back to me under my barn owner’s supervision. And she was reactive for him, too. I watched him work her and left crying because somehow I’d bought a horse that was this way. But I went twice a week to work with him and things improved.

The next summer we went to our first local show for ranch pleasure. She was far better than the previous year but still reactive to new things or old things in new places. Especially man-made things—natural things like stepping over logs or through crappy footing on the trail doesn’t bother her in the least. In the ranch riding class she gave the poles the hairy eyeball. I already knew we were out of the ribbons because she was highly anxious through the pattern, but that didn’t matter to me; I just wanted to finish the pattern for schooling. I let her lower her head and look at the poles, and I waited her out without forcing her other than keeping her facing straight toward them. She finally decided to go, stepped over one pole, then changed her mind and backed up. When she backed up she caught the pole with her foot and it rolled. Well, that was the end of the world. She leapt up in the air and to the right—I fell off hard to the left. Considered selling her again but felt like I was stuck—horse shopping on a limited budget and in the extreme northeast of this country sucks. Worked harder at exposing her to things at home. And she got better.

But that reactivity is always there. And it seems like every time I think, “There. I’m fully committed to this horse,” something happens that shakes my confidence. This year we’ve had some real successes. I only went to one show, but she was Limit Ranch Pleasure champion. (Yes, it’s just a small local show, but still.) I’ve let a couple of friends who are good riders ride her, one on a trail ride (just the two of us) and one in a Friends & Family ring class with me at the show. After three years of ground work and persistence, we were finally able to walk through a couple of “curtain” type obstacles under saddle at our home barn. I’ve finally cantered on the trail with a group of 3 (2 other horses), but with people I trust to pull up their own horses if things go wrong. Overall I was feeling pretty confident that we’d gotten over the hump of extreme reactivity.

That brings me to yesterday. We went on a trail ride with 8 other horses. It was mostly walking, and things were going pretty well. The three in front of me were allowing their horses to trot up any little rise, and my horse listened to me and waited to be allowed to go faster. We were relaxed and on a loose rein most of the time. About 2/3 of the way into our ride those horses trotted ahead up a very steep incline, and my horse exploded into a leap/buck in place. My barn owner was right behind me and instructed me to circle hard, which we did, and then we preceded up the incline. My mare took tight, mincing steps but was obedient.

Shortly after this there is a place on the trail that is good to trot and canter—nice wide woods road with super footing. The three horses in front of me started trotting; I let my mare trot and thought we’d be okay if all we did was trot. But then the others in front started cantering and my mare lost her mind, threw her head up, dropped her back, and tried to leap forward. I was able to circle her and then start trotting again, but as my barn owner passed us and trotted away, she did it again and then ran backwards off the road into a boggy area. The back group of four were just walking at that point, and I thought I’d be able to join them, but when they reached me at least one said she was going to canter so I might want to face my mare in the opposite direction. At this point my mare was backing up again, even though I was deliberately pushing the reins forward and not pulling at all. I asked them to PLEASE wait until I could get off.

I did get off and started to walk her the other way as everyone trotted and cantered off. Of course my horse’s behavior is not their responsibility and I didn’t want them to alter their ride. I hand-walked her all the way back to the barn.

Anyway, this sort of triggered my fears again, and I’m not sure what to do. I know that her reactivity is part of who she is. I also know that someone braver than I probably would have ridden her through that by sending her forward into whatever leaping/galloping pace ensued, and that eventually, if that were repeated, she would get over herself as she has learned to do in many other situations. I, however, am just not that brave; it’s not going to happen.

So all this to ask, do I just chalk this up to overfacing her and just keep doing what I’m doing with continued success in the arena and limited group size trail rides? Sometimes I think about where I might be with all the hard work I put in if I had horse that had a less reactive brain.

If you made it this far, thanks for listening. Maybe I just needed to write it all down.

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Oh my. You’ve certainly been a trouper hanging in there with her. Good for you!

I’ve got two questions before I respond any further. Have you discussed this with your vet? Do you enjoy/ like her at all?

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It sounds like you guys are just not a great fit, and it’s totally okay to decide that you only want to things that are in your comfort zone. It’s also okay to decide you’d rather have a quieter horse and to sell this one. Twelve is a good age to sell horses, and she’s sound and rideable and good at some things so it’s reasonable to expect she’ll be able to find a good home with someone who enjoys her quirks.

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I have not discussed it with my vet. It does seem to be a lifelong character trait. She was foaled on a range in South Dakota. The people who bought her as a weanling (at auction) said she was always nervous/anxious and they worked extra hard with her before she was broke out. When they sold her (at auction), the next purchasers didn’t even realize she’d been broke out already. They trail rode her all over and got two foals from her but called her “quirky.”

There are some things I do enjoy about her. She is the most responsive horse I’ve ever ridden as far as using your body to navigate, unless she is in an overreactive brain moment. In the arena I can now pretty much think something and it happens. She is very sure-footed on the trail and doesn’t get upset by funky underfooting like riff-raff or mud, which my previous horse hated.

Thanks for asking. :slight_smile:

I’m also curious if you’ve had vet work done on her, and what sort of exposure she’s gotten. It sounds like going out to a ranch riding show might be too much, unless you’re taking her to lower input events first (like just a rail class without obstacles, or even a halter class so you don’t have to worry about riding). I’d only trail ride with people who want to walk the whole time if that’s a possibility.

Have you tried any calming supplements? Does she get magnesium?

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If you had to average the last three years of owning her, is it overall progression or regression?

My gut feeling is that she’s always going to be like this to some degree. A 12 year old should be entering been-there-done-that stages of life, and from what you’ve said you’ve done with her she can hardly be considered green.

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I think you’re looking at this the wrong way. Instead of changing what you want to do because your horse can’t do those things, start thinking about getting a different horse that can do the things you want to do.

This horse is not a good fit for you. And I seriously question the judgment of a trainer whose only solution to your problem is to tell you to “man up.” That is how people get hurt, get scared, and quit riding.

I have strong feelings about this because I’ve been in your situation before and eventually it just sucks all the joy out of riding. Sell that “quirky” horse and buy one that makes you feel safe, comfortable, and happy.

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I have not tried any calming supplements. She’s actually quite lazy in the heat of the summer and in the arena. I’ve always felt it is more of a reactivity issue than a hotness issue, but I could certainly try a magnesium supplement.

I do think she is always going to be like this to some degree. I mean, it’s not like a young horse who has opportunity to outgrow green shenanigans. (In fact, my barn owner was riding her 5 year old gelding, who hadn’t been ridden in at least a month due to the barn owner having an injury, and he just bopped happily along even when my horse was in the ditch.)

And, thank you for that question. If I look at the three years (four officially on December 20), it has been overall progression. It’s just always lurking under the progress.

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I’m glad you got to see this, even if the whole experience was not good. There ARE horses out there that can come out of the pasture and be reliable. Granted, this often requires a rider that is somewhat confident (especially on a greenie), but there are horses out there that can be good citizens and build your confidence rather than shake it.

This is who she is. Do you enjoy working so hard with her to do stuff like walk over poles? Is the challenge fun, or draining? Do you want to go on big group trail rides, or do you want to do arena stuff and only go out with those two level headed friends?

You can like a horse and also realize your goals don’t align with their needs. 12 is a good age, she could be someone’s local show horse or go to someone who likes her responsiveness. That lightness often comes with a helping of reactivity, so it’s not out of the ordinary.

I think you’d be happier with a less reactive horse, and she’d be happier with a rider she can trust to be the confident herd leader. I also don’t like your trainer telling you to “man up”, but I can also generously interpret that as “this horse needs a confident rider”.

Riding is supposed to be fun. If the challenge isn’t fun and you want to do things that overface your horse, it’s time for a new partner. For both of you!

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Add me to the group of people who thinks it is time to realize that this is not the type of horse that you will be happy with. No fault of you or the horse. You are just not a match, which is fine.

I also find it frustrating that not one of the people in that riding group thought they should stay with you and help you get your horse back to the barn safely. Wow.

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Actually yeah, that’s a good point. Everyone just left OP to walk a freaking-out horse back to the barn? Even the experienced ex-coach?

I have steady eddies, and more than once I’ve been the confidence horse to go back to the barn. Or walked the ding-dong back and let the rider walk my horse. I feel like that’s just safety - what if maresy had gotten away from OP? No one would know for ages.

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Thanks for the additional info. When your vet is out for routine shots or something, have a quick chat about your mare. Just because she’s always been like this doesn’t mean she always has to be.

Things to consider would include her eyesight. Unrelated to that, trying magnesium which has really helped with my OTTB’s reactivity. It doesn’t have to be a fancy supplement. Half a teaspoon of Epsom salts would be a place to start but check with your vet and be aware that water consumption will increase markedly because of the salt component.

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I agree, around here the general etiquette is that if one person’s horse is having an issue everyone does everything in their power to calm the situation down. If that means no one gets to canter or even trot that day on the trails in the name of safety, so be it. No one gets upset about it. We’d rather have everyone get home safely. I guess I’ve always thought those were unwritten rules on trail everywhere.

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I just want to mention that this is why I HATE group trail rides and I no longer do them. The folks you were with were showing horrible etiquette. You don’t move into a faster gait until you signal and get the okay from everyone else and you don’t move out at every uphill unless you want to train your horses to be asshats about it.
That being said- if you want to do big group rides, you can either fix her or you can get a different horse. From a lot of experience, I’ll say fixing her is going to be a long, long road.

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A few thoughts reading your post:

  • To answer the initial question of avoiding things due to anticipating a bad reaction from my horse, no not really. I wouldn’t ask something of them I don’t think they are prepared for but that is not to say that I would stop trail riding/ showing/ doing whatever entirely indefinitely. I would adjust down to their level (so maybe hand walking the show grounds instead of competing with a greenie) but continue to work towards the end result (competing in the ring in this example).
  • There may be a medical explanation for at least some of her behavior. IIWM, I’d spend some money with a vet on a lameness + neuro + maybe repro eval on her. Some lifestyle changes may help as well (more turnout, lower NSC feed, etc).
  • It sounds like she may not be the best fit for you and your goals. Reading between the lines on your post, it sounds like you want to be out showing and trail riding more and it doesn’t sound like she really enjoys those things (at least in the way you want to do them).
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My guess, from my own experience, is that your mare is showing herd-bound, or buddy-sour, behavior, in a particular way. Separation anxiety. That isn’t triggered until it is – and then her instincts see it as a sudden, life-threatening crisis that she has to resolve immediately.

I’ve found that some well-trained horses will be ok with separation – until some magic distance is reached. Maybe the horses in front are leaving at a faster rate, or they are now at a particular distance unacceptable to the mare. The separation behavior suddenly erupts. In a dangerous way, in many cases.

When the other horses start leaving her, she is ok … up to a certain level/point. Then suddenly there is a separation point where she risks dying alone if she doesn’t catch up right now. Her instinct is to do anything to release her to do that.

In my experience, it is very possible to increase the acceptability of greater separation, gradually and with correct training. But yeah you have to be able to ride through some behavior. It isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. There are some great behavior trainers that can help with this. But for the rest of us, even if we have the technical skills, we may or may not be up for the task.

Separation anxiety, herd-bound, buddy-sour behavior can be a mild annoyance, but it can also be one of the behaviors most dangerous to humans when it is at a higher level.

Horses can even show this behavior when riding away from their own property – they are going along just fine, until suddenly they erupt into active resistance, which is really an attempt to turn back. Or leaving the pasture alone, leaving the other horses behind. Or riding away from the barn. They are ok until they reach a certain point known only to them, and then they lose it.

I am guessing that what you are experiencing is part of the same behavior when a horse reacts when the other horses are the ones that leave, leaving this horse behind, to neigh and paw and rush back & forth.

Carson James is one of the best at this. This works. If you do it properly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE9ECCQ4RDw

Ken McNabb has another very good approach to the problem in a trail ride situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBB4JqSBa8o

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Hugs. I’ve been there-- I could have written your post about my now 19 year old mare.

We’ve come a long way. The trick has been finding the balance.

Yes, it’s okay to opt out. But also, if you’re anything like me, your anxiety is almost guaranteed to be playing into some of the explosiveness.

For me, having the right people in my corner is how I got myself into a better headspace to deal with my mare. Instructors and riding friends who respected and understood what I was dealing with. Also, my mare’s explosiveness is triggered by discomfort. I’m not talking lameness per se, but for example, she’s very particular about tack. Figuring out what she likes/doesn’t like minimized a lot of these reactions.

I took her on a huge group camping trail ride this summer and she was one of the more reliable and well behaved horses there. But, there were also somethings I opted out on: some of the obstacles on an obstacle course, galloping in front of a “scary” pond for the photographer, etc. But the difference was unlike in the past, I wasn’t opting out because of an explosion or incident that scared me. I could just tell she had limited capacity to handle those things and it wasn’t worth it to me to push the issue and potentially hit a breaking point.

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@cmdrcltr: from my experience, your horse has an eyesight problem. I had a horse who became increasingly reactive as she got older. Thinking about it, she was reacting more to things she heard or smelled, since her eyesight was worsening.

Examples: She saw the shadow of a group of insects on the ground (they were flying, but the shadow is what she reacted to) and had a panic attack: backed up so fast, in the arena, that I jumped off, thinking she might fall down. She heard roofers, 1/2 mile away, and had a panic attack (nail guns sounded like galloping horses). We walked around the neighborhood, walked back the same way, and she had a panic attack near a trash can (smelled something?). I got to the point that I didn’t leave the property with her: just rode in the ring and around the farm close to the barn.

If your horse is good in the arena, and you like riding her there, then I’d stick to that. Don’t go out on trails any more. That backing up, into the boggy area, is #$% dangerous. If you want to trail ride, you will need a different horse. Good luck with this!

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In addition to other physical issues from age, older horses are more self-protective. They feel more vulnerable. Most tend to become less confrontational in pasture, and more attached to the herd that makes them feel safe. And we know that horses away from home can quickly bond with other horses nearby, just because this is now the herd, the new safe place.