Just saw proof that I ride at a HJ barn that uses drugs

[Threeplainbays]

I will try to make this short and clear.

I have recently returned to HJ after not having shown for many years.

I looked a long time for a well-respected operation whose program seemed to be more about making horses than making horses “winners”. Early in this relationship, I remarked that I understood that there had been a change of culture in the HJ show world, but that I did not condone the use of pharmaceuticals for the purpose of calming horses and/or making them more rideable. In fact, I told them that if this was standard practice in modern horse showing then I did not want to participate.

They responded that they, too, were against this practice. They were forthright about their use of supplements and veterinary maintenance during active showing, however.

I now have irrefutable proof that calming drugs are a part of their program. I saw a horse get injected with a sedative so that the rider could get around a course for a video. There can be no question that I misunderstood the situation, as the rider stated to me after the rounds that the mount was “like a different horse” after the “relaxation shot”. The cavalier attitude was stunning.

Judge as you will, but I truly took them for their word when they told me that they do not tranquilize horses.

Now that I know, what do I do with this knowledge? The issue is black-and-white to me, but I recognize that the overall situation is grey.

I now have horses and thousands of dollars invested into a barn and a sport that make me feel like a cheat. I consider personal integrity to be one of the most important character traits. I haven’t started showing yet, so if I have been utterly naive and just need to get out now, please say so.

[Wellspotted]

I wonder that you still say “the training is excellent.”

[Threeplainbays]

When I say the training is excellent, I mean that quality of the instruction I receive while I am in the saddle and improving my skills over 3’6" fences is excellent. That is as far as that comment extends.

[Threeplainbays]

Nevermind. I just found the search forums feature.

[asterix]

Get out now. Maybe you can find somewhere better in your discipline, but if this is important to you, you will have to act on your convictions. Staying will not change anything.

[OverandOnward]

Just one time? Who was involved?

Keep this in context. Be just. Don’t let one bad apple spoil the basket, if that’s the case. Don’t make assumptions or jump to conclusions. And don’t be confrontational when you ask the BO/BM what that was all about. The discovery is an emotional shock - so get over that and go into rational investigation mode.

Listen to what they have to say and put it against your inner bs meter. You don’t have to make a decision at that moment - you’re just gathering information.

Keep asking and digging until you get the full picture. And again - be just. Don’t tar everyone with the same paintbrush - understand who is at fault and who is not. And most important, what the barn will do about it. Give time for the full picture to unfold and then you will know what decision about the barn is right for you.

All that said … I left the hunters far behind and am happy if I never again show in a hunter class. Just can’t go there any more.

[HLMom]

I guess the situation raises some questions for me. I don’t know if the answers make any difference, but I think it’s always good to have all the facts. What was the video for? The rider stating that the horse “seemed like a different horse” makes it sound like this was the first time she had ever experienced this horse acting like that, so is it possible drugs are not routinely used but this was some special situation? Is there more than one trainer at the barn? Was a trainer involved with giving the shot?

Admittedly the whole situation doesn’t sound good… I guess I’m searching for any possible explanation that makes it not as bad as it looks.

[RugBug]

There are legitimate reasons to use calming drugs. I’m not sure that getting around a course for a video is one, but if you have a good relationship with the trainer, ask why?

[AlexS]

I’d ask why too, as it seems like you are leaving anyway - and if asked politely and without a reaction, then there’s nothing to lose.

But I think asking and expecting the truth in response is a stretch. I am pretty good at smelling out a rear end stink, so I would likely see the BS.

However, as you already saw what you explicitly don’t want to see, then I’d move along regardless of what they say.

[cgray0983]

Is there a chance that it could have been injectable B vitamins? It does sound shady, but more often than not these days I am finding that some owners are oblivious to what their horses get, what they are and why they are getting it. The other option that popped into my head was that the owner was insisting on it and perhaps threatening to leave if said “relaxation shot” was not giving - but that also poses a problem that trainer may still not be of the standard which you would like. Go with your gut, the horses come first!

[brody]

I agree with finding out more. I am so sorry though.

[Threeplainbays]

Thank you, everyone.

Yes, it WAS a shock. It still is. But you’re right - I need to think clearly and rationally about how to proceed.

There can be no question that this was not an isolated instance, and perhaps that’s the bigger issue. The rider, an older junior that seemed very competent, borrowed another rider’s large Eq-type horse. He was inconsistent and forward, but not in a dangerous way. She was pulling and picking to every fence.

The junior’s parent was ringside videotaping the rounds for what sounded like an intercollegiate horse team selection process. Rider clearly took effort in her turnout - barn logo shirt, tall boots, perfect Hunter hair, beautiful tack. This was no training video.

After a few inconsistent rounds, the Assistant Trainer disappears, comes back with a syringe, and injects the horse. In the ring. In front of everyone. Horse walks it off for five minutes, then repeats the course - this time with far more rideability.

The Head Trainer is on the road following our Zone’s A/AA circuit more often than not.

I heard the rider’s parent discussing the rounds with the Assistant Trainer. That was the other shock. The parent was more concerned with finding a horse and making a video that showcased her child. The fact that her child needed the Trainer to tranq the horse in order to achieve a nice round was a non-issue.

It was all about being competitive. It was nothing about being a skilled rider on an appropriate mount.

I’m just disappointed. I feel like a fool for believing that they ran a clean operation.

So now I have an adorable, lovable Holsteiner (that I worked overtime and saved money for two years to afford) who steps over 3"6" decorating my pasture. I am too attached to him to sell him into this culture.

I feel like they saw my money coming and were willing to tell me anything in order to get me to buy a horse and get back into showing.

What a mess.

[ideayoda]

Yep, not about the horse’s welfare or learning any longer. It’s about winning and perception.

[M_Owen]

Here is my two cents fwiw. 1) speak to the head trainer or whomever is in charge with bs meter on high alert. 2) not all h/j programs drug. A lot do, but definitely not all. If you confirm or have enough bad feeling that you fear the worst, vote with your feet and move on. You’ll find the right safe place for you and your horse. If you have too much of a bad taste, there are lots of things a nice athletic horse can do. Don’t despair! And keep your horse and enjoy him.

[asterix]

Well, he sure doesn’t have to be decorating your pasture or getting drugged. There are a LOT of roads in between. Maybe try a different discipline - jumpers, fox hunting, eventing?

[findeight]

I just hate it when some people are so cavalier about walking out and sticking them then raving about the improvement. Really doesn’t matter if it’s ace or some mag concoction that is currently permissible. It sets a horrific example to clients, especially kids.

That said, the use of a calmative at home would not necessarily send me packing as there are situations where it is appropriate but trotting out into the ring with a needle is an inappropriate way to handle it. But sure would send me to the head trainer for a chat. Really don’t care or have control over other clients decisions for their horses but Id sure be paying more attention to what goes on and to my bill, they could be schooling yours with “a little something” and you’d never know. Check your bill too. Demand itemization.

It is very possible the assistant is operating without head trainer approval, that’s another reason to speak up, ask for a sit down,

Always say, plan B is the way to go. Always have alternate arrangements in mind. There are other barns and trainers.

BTW, IMO the situation described, making the rider look better in some application video, is stoooopid and not an appropriate use of calmatives. Doesn’t do much for anybody who watching’s opinion if that riders talent…and people talk. Sort of backfired there.

[pinkpony321]

You know, maybe if the kid was riding badly (you said picking and pulling), the trainer didn’t inject drugs into the horse. Maybe it was saline, to make the kid THINK the horse was going more quietly. I think that it’s highly unlikely, but the point is, you don’t really know all of the facts. Perhaps you should call the head trainer and alert them to what happened. Could be that the head trainer is really 100% against using any drugs and has no idea what the assistant is doing.
If you have a nice horse who you feel is safe where he is (ie, they aren’t drugging your horse without your permission), and you are in no rush to show, leave him where he is until you get a better handle on what is going on.
Personally, I think the “my horse is going to decorate my pasture because I saw one person drug another horse and now I can’t trust ANYONE” schtick is a little dramatic. There really are plenty of barns out there that show H/J and don’t drug. I promise. I know of a large number of them. If you get the facts about what happened at your current barn, and still dislike the way they do things or how they handled this situation, then go find another barn. There is no need to let a nice horse that you worked hard for sit, just because of one questionable experience that didn’t even directly involve you.

[findeight]

This would not be the only barn with assistant trainers taking liberties when head trainers are on the road. If head trainer was, in fact, on the road at the time. They need to know.

[SidesaddleRider]

In full disclosure, I do not use any calming or relaxation drugs on our show hunters (no perfect prep, ace, magnesium, etc). I have given some horses a bit of ace when they are staring out in the hunt field.

That being said, I absolutely would not go crazy on this and make assumptions regarding the barn’s use of drugs, such as that “there is no question that this was not an isolated instance.” Without having proof of other drug use by the barn, what you have written does not, to me, show a rampant use of calming drugs by your barn. I would hope that at a large show barn, the trainer and assistant trainer would 1) have acepromizine (and other tranqs) available, and 2) know how it can be utilized and what the correct dosage amount is. Tranqs are valuable things to have in many situations (such as a horse coming back into work from a long layup, for clipping, etc).

So, let’s break what you wrote down:

1. You said that the parents were attempting to get a video of their daughter for an IHSA or NCAA-selection, with probably a deadline to make the tape. It is a competitive selection process, so she MUST look good if she wants to be chosen.

2. She was riding a horse that was not her own (i.e., one she was not familiar with).

3. Since the horse that the jr rider was borrowing was not behaving consistently (for whatever reason), the rounds were not looking good. The purpose of the tape was to show off the RIDER, not the HORSE (i.e., not a sales video), so the rider had to be put in the best light possible. You have not stated that you know how much work the horse had in the past couple of weeks, whether he had been turned out or lunged, or whether his normal “show prep” routine was followed prior to this videoing attempt.

4. You said that the girl had seemed competent when you have seen her previously. I will assume that you know how to tell whether someone is an accomplished rider or not. Well, sometimes, no matter how competent you are, sometimes the horse you are on just does NOT want to cooperate on that day. Heck, I have seen Scott Stewart stop his Second Year horse on course at Upperville and back him up to get him paying attention, before continuing on the course. Is he a highly competent rider? Yes. Was his horse very nice? Yes. If he had only had that opportunity to get a video to be used as a demo for a riding selection, would he have been chosen? Highly unlikely.

5. You saw the horse get injected with something, with the jr rider said was a “relaxation shot”. However, you did not state that you saw exactly what the injection was (i.e., no idea if ace, magnesium, etc), and you have yet to ask the barn to find out what it was.

6. You have not seen ANY OTHER drug use by the barn prior to this incident, and you have been there for a while, with no prior issues.

7. After the unknown injection, the horse went much better and the rider was able to get the video that she needed to show her riding ability off.

8. You stated “It was all about being competitive. It was nothing about being a skilled rider on an appropriate mount.” Well, what selection process/demo tape – for ANY sport – is not about being competitive? Assuming she is supposed to be showing herself off at 3’6", she should be a decently skilled rider. And an “appropriate mount” – well, there is appropriate in the sense that you can ride them, and then appropriate in the sense that your jr rider may well be very competent and be able to ride a real green-bean around a 2’3" course, but it sure as heck is not going to look as polished and professional as it would on a trained Big Eq horse; and that is all going to come into play in a demo tape by the selectors viewing it.

Let me know if any of the above are incorrect.

If there are no corrections, what in there goes to show that your barn is a consistent user of relaxation drugs for their hunters?

All I see is that some injectable was given in a limited situation, where the rider may have had only this opportunity to get a decent video on a borrowed trained horse, and for whatever reason the horse did not want to play that day or was not prepped properly. If she had been able to borrow a different horse, she may well have been able to show herself off much easier (perhaps on your lovely Holsteiner?).

No, calming drugs are NOT A REPLACEMENT for proper training, and I really dislike showing against horses that are on meds of some sort when I know that my horses do not get anything other than the occasional bute or previcox and a lunge if needed. But in this instance, which was at home and in a situation where the rider needed to show herself off on a cooperating horse, and for which you have no other proof of other injections, I think you may be overreacting.

[midstride]

[QUOTE=Threeplainbays;7670093]

I now have horses and thousands of dollars invested into a barn and a sport that make me feel like a cheat. I consider personal integrity to be one of the most important character traits. I haven’t started showing yet, so if I have been utterly naive and just need to get out now, please say so.[/QUOTE]

You have invested in your horse, not the barn. Board is an expense, a sunk cost. Do what you feel is right by your horse. You can decide that they are never tranqing your horse and keep with what you feel is good training otherwise, or be clear from it all and move on. Have you thought about a farmette and trailering in for lessons (elsewhere)?

Other disciplines may work too, as someone suggested. Often trainers in other disciplines, eventing for example, still have experience in hunters, if that is where you wish to say.