Just saw proof that I ride at a HJ barn that uses drugs

[supershorty628]

[QUOTE=Threeplainbays;7670093]
I will try to make this short and clear.

I have recently returned to HJ after not having shown for many years.

I looked a long time for a well-respected operation whose program seemed to be more about making horses than making horses “winners”. Early in this relationship, I remarked that I understood that there had been a change of culture in the HJ show world, but that I did not condone the use of pharmaceuticals for the purpose of calming horses and/or making them more rideable. In fact, I told them that if this was standard practice in modern horse showing then I did not want to participate.

They responded that they, too, were against this practice. They were forthright about their use of supplements and veterinary maintenance during active showing, however.

I now have irrefutable proof that calming drugs are a part of their program. I saw a horse get injected with a sedative so that the rider could get around a course for a video. There can be no question that I misunderstood the situation, as the rider stated to me after the rounds that the mount was “like a different horse” after the “relaxation shot”. The cavalier attitude was stunning.

Judge as you will, but I truly took them for their word when they told me that they do not tranquilize horses.

Now that I know, what do I do with this knowledge? The issue is black-and-white to me, but I recognize that the overall situation is grey.

I now have horses and thousands of dollars invested into a barn and a sport that make me feel like a cheat. I consider personal integrity to be one of the most important character traits. I haven’t started showing yet, so if I have been utterly naive and just need to get out now, please say so.[/QUOTE]

Just in case…

I don’t think I could say it any better than SideSaddleRider. And sure, some people drug - but I think there are more people who don’t than people who do. But in riding, as in any sport, the few bad apples make everyone look bad.

This horse was at his first big show and was showing in the baby green hunters. He looks like a metronome, aside from the baby bobble at the first fence.

He was not drugged. He was not longed. He didn’t even have his ears stuffed.

I think your post is a little overreactive and dramatic. Talk to the trainer. But if you’re happy with the training you’ve been receiving, I don’t think I’d let an isolated incident (that did not involve your horse OR you) make you go “I’m taking my toys and going home!”

[trubandloki]

I am on the fence here.
The OP is making some broad sweeping statements that involve more assumption than fact. That makes me scratch my head about the fact portion.
Then the drama about her horse being useless in a field now…oh my.

Have you talked to the head trainer yet? Did you ask the assistant trainer at that time what was going on?

[AmmyByNature]

I also agree with SidesaddleRider. Even if this was an honest-to-god tranq of some sort, this is an example of when it wouldn’t bother me very much. (Much like tranqing a horse coming off stall rest.)

The horse was a well trained big eq horse - tranq was not being used as a shortcut. The video was not a sale video - no person was being deceived into buying a horse that wasn’t as advertised. Horse was being ridden by a competent rider who was just having a bad day - wasn’t being used at a show to try and beat other more competent riders having better days.

In your OP you repeated the phrase “they said this” and “they said that.” A barn is not a “they.” Was the person who told you these things the same person who delivered the injection?

And I’d step back from the ledge a bit. Your horse need not decorate a pasture OR be sold. You say you like the training. There seems to be a lot of good things about this barn. I’d get more information before scrapping the horse or changing disciplines. You’re bring a little overly dramatic here.

[asterix]

Wow, sidesaddle, that’s a lot of justifications there, which as far as I can tell boil down to “what else could they do? Poor junior just had to look good and horse was being… A horse.”
Ick.
Borrowed horse, hmm? Think the owner was consulted as to whether it was ok to tranq the horse so the kid could get a good video?

[hoopoe]

Side Saddle rider gave a very well thought out recap.

You said the rider was picking at the horse at every fence.

perhaps the injection was a placebo intended to relax the rider

[Pennywell_Bay]

I guess I’m the only one who thinks this story is a bit odd. Something just seems off with the post, all the pieces conveniently out in the open I don’t mean to knock the OP, at least, I hope it is made up.

[supershorty628]

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;7670386]
I guess I’m the only one who thinks this story is a bit odd. Something just seems off with the post, all the pieces conveniently out in the open. At least, I hope it is made up.[/QUOTE]

You’re not the only one.

[findeight]

Hey, OP? It might be best to take the information about what kind of horse you have and your recent show schedule out of the post you made about halfway down the first page. It’s not at all hard to figure out who people are in real life and some statements made could get you crosswise. Particularly if head trainer really does not condone what happened…or that horses owner has no idea the person they allowed to ride it could not do it without pharmaceutical help…no doubt that will show up on their bill as " schooling". Then it gets out as " Hey so and so drugs all the time" or " did you know Susie drugged your horse". It’s happened before and in light if incomplete facts, may be dead wrong or get you kicked out with a rep as " That client".

Change breed sex, where horse lives and show schedule or just delete them.

[SidesaddleRider]

[QUOTE=asterix;7670378]
Wow, sidesaddle, that’s a lot of justifications there, which as far as I can tell boil down to “what else could they do? Poor junior just had to look good and horse was being… A horse.”
Ick. [/QUOTE]

You misread my post. I was not attempting to justify anything. I was addressing the OP’s contention that “the HJ barn [she is at] uses drugs [on their horses]” and that it was “not an isolated instance.” My post was aimed at breaking down the OP to see where in it she gave proof of WHAT the horse was injected with (could have been a tranq, could have been saline), or what other evidence she had that this had occurred previously or since (non stated). So far, OP has not provided further info. Therefore, as I said, I believe the OP is overreacting in her claims.

[AmmyByNature]

[QUOTE=Threeplainbays;7670299]
Thank you, everyone.

Yes, it WAS a shock. It still is. But you’re right - I need to think clearly and rationally about how to proceed.

There can be no question that this was not an isolated instance, and perhaps that’s the bigger issue. The rider, an older junior that seemed very competent, borrowed another rider’s large Eq-type horse. He was inconsistent and forward, but not in a dangerous way. She was pulling and picking to every fence.

The junior’s parent was ringside videotaping the rounds for what sounded like an intercollegiate horse team selection process. Rider clearly took effort in her turnout - barn logo shirt, tall boots, perfect Hunter hair, beautiful tack. This was no training video.

After a few inconsistent rounds, the Assistant Trainer disappears, comes back with a syringe, and injects the horse. In the ring. In front of everyone. Horse walks it off for five minutes, then repeats the course - this time with far more rideability.

The Head Trainer is on the road following our Zone’s A/AA circuit more often than not.

I heard the rider’s parent discussing the rounds with the Assistant Trainer. That was the other shock. The parent was more concerned with finding a horse and making a video that showcased her child. The fact that her child needed the Trainer to tranq the horse in order to achieve a nice round was a non-issue.

It was all about being competitive. It was nothing about being a skilled rider on an appropriate mount.

I’m just disappointed. I feel like a fool for believing that they ran a clean operation.

So now I have an adorable, lovable Holsteiner (that I worked overtime and saved money for two years to afford) who steps over 3"6" decorating my pasture. I am too attached to him to sell him into this culture.

I feel like they saw my money coming and were willing to tell me anything in order to get me to buy a horse and get back into showing.

What a mess.[/QUOTE]

@Pennywell Bay;7670386

I guess I’m the only one who thinks this story is a bit odd. Something just seems off with the post, all the pieces conveniently out in the open I don’t mean to knock the OP, at least, I hope it is made up.

Not least of all because I have never in my life heard anyone use the phrase “relaxation shot.”

[arlosmine]

This would bother me too. A lot. The drug culture in the hunter world is such that lines become very blurry…and no, I don’t think that drugging a horse to make the kid look good is OK.

What an absolutely HORRIBLE lesson to teach that kid.

The fact that that is justified as “ok because it’s not competitive” makes me want to barf. The kid couldn’t ride the horse well enough that day to look good on a video. End of story. That’s horses. Whipping out a sedative in that scenario is what furthers the general lack of horsemanship in the clients. They will see this as a normal, acceptable way to modify horse behavior, and will be more likely to accept it in other high pressure situations where they have spent loads of money.

Sorry, but you-all who are making excuses for this sound like like you’ve been around this so much it seems normal to you. You are “desensitized” to a drug culture.

If you can’t make the Video that day, you pack it up, the kid takes more lessons to be able to ride better, and you try again at another time. Thats horses: the same thing happens showing. Sometimes it’s just not your day. You don’t drug the animal to make a kid look good, NO MATTER WHAT. It’s just shitty horsemanship, pure and simple. It is NOT like drugging a horse in rehab. That is done for the safety of the horse or rider. This was done for vanity, opportunity, desire to move up the social food chain and CONVENIENCE (somebody had to go to the effort to put on nice cloths, and possibly some one else had to pay a videographer) Ick.

SET AN EXAMPLE.

I would yank my horse out of that program and find another. Or start eventing.

Flame away.

[asterix]

sidesaddle, if I did misread it, I’m sorry. I agree that the OP is being overly dramatic about having to have her horse sit in a pasture, and of course no one here has any idea what really happened or didn’t.

But coming from another discipline entirely, I remain really surprised at the underlying assumptions here…
The fact that several people have suggested that the horse could have been injected with saline to essentially psych the rider into riding better…do you not see what is wrong with this?? I don’t mean it’s wrong to psych the rider (hey, if you can psych me into not riding like an idiot, go right ahead). I just mean that this somewhat farfetched scenario is only plausible in a world where drugging horses to produce more rideable horses is a REGULAR occurrence.

And as arlos said, no, it is NOT ok. Shoot the video another day. Drugs should be used to help the HORSE - as in, aid in rehab so horse can be exercised without reinjuring himself, etc. - NOT the rider. I don’t really understand why this distinction has been lost.

[vxf111]

Regardless of whether what you saw is right, wrong or otherwise-- it’s your money when it comes to boarding/your training and showing. If you’re not happy, go to another barn. There are plenty of hunter barns that don’t drug. Find one of them if you’re unhappy with what you saw at the current place. There are many choices between staying in a program you’re not happy with and quitting riding entirely.

[hoopoe]

I stand by my statement, it does happen and it does work

[vxf111]

BTW your user name is the same as an equine business sort of localish to me. The owner posts on these forums. I hope people don’t assume you’re the same person/affiliated if you’re not.

[Soaponarope]

A few things about this sound strange. With the new rules about injections at USEF shows, I would find it hard to believe that an owner of a big eq horse would just blithely let it be injected for this purpose. Is the horse retired and or had it not been ridden for a long time? I don’t know how long Ace stays in a horse’s system but if it were going to show anytime soon it could be drug tested. Nowadays if a horse crashes it will be tested and others are subject to random testing.

I would not assume that because this horse was injected with something at home that it would be injected at a horse show if that is something you are worried about it. If you have evidence that the head trainer is doing that then you do have to leave.

At home it’s certainly an ethical issue. But it’s a legal issue at a show and at very least the trainer could be suspended.

Good luck and I would talk to the head trainer about it before leaving if you are happy there.

[Linny]

[QUOTE=AmmyByNature;7670426]
Not least of all because I have never in my life heard anyone use the phrase “relaxation shot.”[/QUOTE]

I have hard terms like “cocktail” used and since the kid probably had no idea what was in the shot, she probably wouldn’t have used pharmaceutical name so “relaxation shot” seems plausible.

OP, even if everything you saw and heard is accurate and horse was injected you may still be overeacting. I don’t condone the use of drugs for regular use and the description makes it appear that such use is fairly commonplace at this barn (the fact that it was done in the ring in front of others) but it wasn’t your horse.

If you are concerned, by all means discuss it with the head trainer. Be alert to his (her) reactions and decide based on them. If you feel that the barn does in fact have a cavalier attitude toward meds, one you cannot tolerate, then try another place. Maybe a boarding barn where you have more control, with a trainer who travels to you or to whom you may ship?

I agree that the first post does seem a bit odd as a “first ever post.” First, the screen name matches the farm name of a long time poster, the post appears to be trying to hide something, while inadvertently putting it in plain sight and the OP’s reaction seems a bit melodramatic.

[Ponyplusaninch]

[QUOTE=supershorty628;7670390]
You’re not the only one.[/QUOTE]

Here’s the thing, I’ve had a very similar incident happen to me, so this story doesn’t sound totally out of place. I got a recommendation to go interview and ride for a person who was–at the time–a respected trainer. Riders don’t do any of the grooming/prep of the horses at this barn. It’s not allowed. So I get out there for my second ride with the trainer, and I see the mare is being fussy in the crossties and doesn’t want to stand still–this doesn’t phase me. I’d either hack until the edge was off and she was ready to work or lunge for five minutes if she really had some bucks. But what I witnessed instead was the groom disappearing for a few minutes while I got my saddle on her and told her to stop being a twit about it. The minute I got the girth on, the groom comes back and in a flash gives her an IV injection of some cocktail. Has the nerve to tell me she’ll feel better after it. Trainer comes along and says to get on. I was just in shock and horror.

Trainer hints that “all the lunging and work” seems to have quieted her down nicely. It was just too much for me. I ended my lesson early and didn’t bother to come back. To drug a horse and then send it out into the ring–that’s like giving a person vicodin and asking them to go about doing her job properly including operating heavy machinery.

There is a time and a place for using sedatives while u/s, but in my opinion it should be monitored as opposed to stick-and-go.

If it was me, I’d say shoot the video another day or get a more reliable horse. Frustrating and time consuming, I’m aware, but that’s why my mom collected a ton of video footage when I was looking at trying out for a team. Some days were better than others. Some shows were significantly better than others.

[foursocks]

Whatever the real story is- and no one on here is able to accurately judge that unless he or she is actually a part of the situation- your best bet is to discuss your concerns with the trainer/BM/whoever is in charge.

If you are so upset by this that it makes you want to ditch the entire sport I think you need to talk to them first. If you are correct and the barn behaves in a way that you don’t condone then maybe just find a different barn. I am more on the side of supershorty and sidesaddlerider, simply because there is a lot of hyperbole and conjecture going on here, but regardless- if I was in your shoes I would talk to the management.

[HLMom]

I wonder if the horse’s owner was aware? I would be furious if I agreed to loan my horse and learned later it had been drugged to make it look better in a video. Considering any injection and/or sedative is not without risk, I’m surprised the assistant trainer was willing to run that risk with someone else’s horse for a relatively trivial reason.