Just tell the kids to use "Perfect Prep"

[Sticky_Situation]

[QUOTE=arapaloosa_lady;7938502]
Well, except for the fact that most type II diabetics could control their condition with appropriate diet & exercise. It’s just difficult to do so, thus most patients end up taking medication instead.

Definitely not just an American problem, though. It’s easy to take the easy path in life.[/QUOTE]

While it’s true that type 2 diabetes is often largely a product of lifestyle, and can in many cases be managed or prevented by changing eating and exercise habits, it is a legitimate medical condition… Whereas a horse acting like, well, a horse … simply isn’t. And type I diabetes, as yet, is not preventable or curable and requires treatment with medication.

Do we as a whole have a love affair with pharmaceuticals and nutraceuticals? Absolutely, and that’s a whole 'nother discussion. But using Perfect Prep to try to place better at horse shows isn’t the same as using a prescribed medication to treat a real medical condition.

A more valid comparison might be athletes using performance enhancing drugs … After all, Lance Armstrong never had a positive test…

[gumshoe]

A type 1 diabetic would be dead in quite short order without injected insulin.

A horse will not die without Prefect Prep.

[grandprixjump]

By the USEF rules…

a. Any stimulant, depressant, tranquilizer, local anesthetic, psychotropic (mood
and/or behavior altering) substance, or drug which might affect the performance
of a horse and/or pony (stimulants and/or depressants are defined as substances
which stimulate or depress the cardiovascular, respiratory or central nervous systems),
or any metabolite and/or analogue of any such substance or drug, except as
expressly permitted by this rule.

Any behavior modification drug is illegal, so how is PP legal??

Maybe they need to talk to supershorty about this horse, and stop trying to fit a round peg into a square hole… LOL LOL

[Equitational]

What exactly is in Perfect Prep? Don’t people feed magnesium as a “calming” supplement? Is that illegal?

Ps. Coming across this post makes think a lot less highly of Rob Gage. He was great course designer but because of that recommendation in his critique, I would probably second guess riding in a clinic with him. Plus, isn’t that kind of a risky (liability) suggestion to give in a critique to a rider you don’t know??

[Moderator_1]

This older thread was recently bumped by a now-deleted post – it’s fine to continue the discussion, but just wanted to give a heads up that it had been inactive.

Thanks!
Mod 1

[nutmeg]

[QUOTE=monalisa;7938471]
Please don’t flame me but in America the answer for everything is “take a pill.” Don’t want to lose weight, take a pill. Don’t want to exercise? Take a pill to get your blood pressure down. Diabetes? Take a pill. How is this approach different?[/QUOTE]

Just an FYI but the first time I encountered the formulation of magnesium and tryptophan together it was in a supplement called “Good as Gold” being peddled by a British showjumper who had gotten it from Ireland. That was about 15 years ago just after the Irish “Steady Neddy” (valerian) was outlawed. And around the same time as the Dutch “Olympic Plus,” which, if you took it with the Belgian amino acid formula, was untestable. It’s a global phenomenon.

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=cyriz’s mom;7650167]

I think there are a couple of big picture issues. One, it’s extremely difficult to take one moment (or one trip in the case of a video) and seek training advice from a complete stranger and except it to be really helpful. How can it be without knowing the context…rider/horse history together and individually, was this their best or worst round, goals, unusual circumstances, etc. [/QUOTE]

But that’s exactly what judges do at a show: the “training advice” comes out as your score.

[findeight]

For those who were not taking a peek at this forum yesterday evening, the deleted post that bumped this, and another related older post, back to life was an outright, uncamoflaged ad for the product.

Apparently they did not read either thread. At all. Find that ironic, guess they assumed both threads were glowing endorsements and would add to the buzz about their product.

Dumb as as houseguests bumping up long forgotten trainwrecks to defend the subjects. Stupid.

[Mardi]

@Ammyrider;7669596

First of all I think people need to realize that Perfect Prep’s main ingredient is tryptophan. This is what helps calm them it’s the same thing that makes you sleepy after eating turkey on thanksgiving. And it is an amino acid so something that is essentially natural to the body. And therefore it’s not the same thing as “drugging” them with something like dex.

There are at least 3 different types of PP (paste): Gold, Extreme, and Training Day Booster. Just a few days ago I was reading the ingredients on all three types. On two of them, the main ingredients in order of listing were 1st: taurine 2nd: magnesium.

Tryptophan was included somewhere in the list, but not as the main ingredient on the two I was looking at.

[gumshoe]

That product is still available.

[QUOTE=nutmeg;7938906]
Just an FYI but the first time I encountered the formulation of magnesium and tryptophan together it was in a supplement called “Good as Gold” being peddled by a British showjumper who had gotten it from Ireland. That was about 15 years ago just after the Irish “Steady Neddy” (valerian) was outlawed. And around the same time as the Dutch “Olympic Plus,” which, if you took it with the Belgian amino acid formula, was untestable. It’s a global phenomenon.[/QUOTE]

[JenEM]

[QUOTE=Mardi;7938927]
But that’s exactly what judges do at a show: the “training advice” comes out as your score.[/QUOTE]

But it’s not. The judge may be telling you that something is wrong with their score, or that you need to improve X, but even in dressage, where you do get specific comments on why you got the score you did, none of it should be HOW to fix anything, just “More bend” or “Better connection” or whatnot, not how to achieve that.

[DancingQueen]

How about if it’s the rider getting nervous and tense before going in the ring, what do we give her to calm down?

Wait a minute, I smell a big business opportunity here!

[inca]

[QUOTE=DancingQueen;7939459]
How about if it’s the rider getting nervous and tense before going in the ring, what do we give her to calm down?

Wait a minute, I smell a big business opportunity here! :-D[/QUOTE]

At my barn, we call that WINE!

[doublesstable]

[QUOTE=Sticky Situation;7938566]
While it’s true that type 2 diabetes is often largely a product of lifestyle, and can in many cases be managed or prevented by changing eating and exercise habits, it is a legitimate medical condition… Whereas a horse acting like, well, a horse … simply isn’t. And type I diabetes, as yet, is not preventable or curable and requires treatment with medication.

Do we as a whole have a love affair with pharmaceuticals and nutraceuticals? Absolutely, and that’s a whole 'nother discussion. But using Perfect Prep to try to place better at horse shows isn’t the same as using a prescribed medication to treat a real medical condition.

A more valid comparison might be athletes using performance enhancing drugs … After all, Lance Armstrong never had a positive test…[/QUOTE]

It can be a similar set of issues especially after watching the video of the horse and rider:

Taking a pill to lose weight vs exercising, eating right and working just as giving a horse Perfect Prep vs not going to the show until rider has had more miles in the irons with young horse.

I would agree it doesn’t compare to someone lets say that has type 1 diabetes etc. The video of rider and horse looks rushed into it. But sometimes the horse show can change us as nerves take over.

[Lady_Eboshi]

No one’s mentioned the true underlying problem–the ongoing penchant of American judges to ONLY pin hunters who move like automatons cantering a computer program in their sleep. And course design that rewards same. And clients who demand to show before they can ride.

Why RIDE at all? If that’s what you want, make it into a video game.

[doublesstable]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;7939649]
No one’s mentioned the true underlying problem–the ongoing penchant of American judges to ONLY pin hunters who move like automatons cantering a computer program in their sleep. And course design that rewards same. And clients who demand to show before they can ride.

Why RIDE at all? If that’s what you want, make it into a video game. :D[/QUOTE]

I rode in the 70’s and 80’s always LOVED the Hunters. Saying that I have to agree with you 100%!!!

I keep hoping there will be some change! Recently purchased a cute guy that is not the today’s hunter-type so hoping he will be competitive.

I like a bright eye, a curious, forward, happy and brave horse with a bit of spring to his step… You feel like they will go anywhere and jump anything.

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=doublesstable;7939814]
I like a bright eye, a curious, forward, happy and brave horse with a bit of spring to his step… You feel like they will go anywhere and jump anything.[/QUOTE]

The horse you described is a joy to watch, and reminds me of something I heard in a lecture: “If a horse tries to hide his personality, it makes him worse.” (Dr. Christian Schacht)

[Sticky_Situation]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;7939649]
No one’s mentioned the true underlying problem–the ongoing penchant of American judges to ONLY pin hunters who move like automatons cantering a computer program in their sleep. And course design that rewards same. And clients who demand to show before they can ride.

Why RIDE at all? If that’s what you want, make it into a video game. :D[/QUOTE]

I agree.

Unfortunately, it seems that in all the disciplines that have judges, there is a tendency to reward the extremes… The slow, sleepy hunter rounds; the dressage horses with extreme front-end action; the low headsets and if-they-were-any-slower-they-would-be-going-backward gaits in the western pleasure ring; the freakish looking halter horses … The list goes on and on. As long as the extremes continue to be rewarded by judges, there will be continued “creep” in those directions.

When does it stop? Who knows …

[Mardi]

At least with dressage, the trend is moving away from extravagant front-end action. Because ? Because it’s not correct (!) and there were many, many complaints.

[bjd2013]

Newsflash, anything you do to your horse is altering its performance. By treating the horse for Ulcers gasp you’re helping it’s stomach feel better so it can perform better. Where do ulcers usually from
from? Stress. But our horses shouldn’t be nervous or stressed ever right? Totally because they’re irrational animals who don’t really understand why we do what we do to them. Oh but according to you guys these horses shouldn’t get nervous or scared so they need a new job since we can’t help them.

Please.

I want to know where you guys get your perfect horses from
that need no bute, banamine, ulcer guard, adequan, or anything. It doesn’t exist.
So if I want to give my horse half a tube of Perfect Prep and some ulcer guard the night before why shouldn’t I be able to? It’s a good horse just nervous because it’s in a new place. I want to HELP my horse, not set it up for for a disaster.

Also guess what, there is always going to be cheaters in every sport. And someone is always going to try to work around the rules. But in this sport it’s different since there is so much money involved.

Let me get flamed and whatever else is going to come, but I think Ace should be legalized. It doesn’t kill horses, and the years you guys glorify, guess what? Everyone used it. If we legalized a small amount like 1/2-1 CC of Ace we wouldnt have people lunging their horses to death, or injecting them
with God knows what.

It’s not a matter of training sometimes, horses get nervous. And don’t come to me with the bull of “Oh well find a new job for the horse- It doesn’t like what it’s doing.” Guess what? A hunter just can’t magically become
a jumper. They are two different types of horses. And jumpers aren’t supposed to be nuts or nervous.