Just tell the kids to use "Perfect Prep"

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=stolen virtue;7646777]
I’m not willing to beat my head against the wall at every show just because this is the common response from judges. You are in my area and this attitude disgusts me. I won’t bother anymore in the hunter ring, Mr. Stolen calls it “ice skating judging” only when one of the prominent judges states that he expects horses are given “better performance through chemistry” then I am done. It is an industry that deserves to die. I am done with it ![/QUOTE]

Just to clarify, MY attitude disgusts you? I certainly hope that isn’t what you meant because I’m not sure how it could. I show for my own reward, not ribbons. Of course, they are nice, but I’m not really in the league to think I’m going to be winning much anyway.

It isn’t an industry that deserves to die. It’s an industry that needs to reform. You can be done with it, but I still love it as do many others. IMO, nothing beats a beautiful round from a top quality hunter.

If you think jumpers doesn’t have its own set of problems, you are burying your head in the sand.

[Bogie]

Maybe the Perfect Prep was for the rider?

A bit of magnesium and b-vitamins isn’t actually going to do much more than make the rider feel better . . . although I agree it is against the “spirit” of the no-drugging rules because the intention it to artificially calm the horse. Mostly I’m wondering how they can get $21/tube for that! What a great business they’ve created for themselves.

I agree it is a very nice horse. I thought that rider did a nice job but seemed tense. Shortening her stirrups and letting the horse move into a better rhythm would go a long way to smoothing out the ride. That and a lot more practice.

I will admit that I feed my own horse Magnesium on a daily basis. Without it he is irritable, hard to groom and twitchy. A bit of magnesium seems to relax his muscles. I can actually groom him without a problem. I do not show so I have never had to wrestle with my conscience about whether or not I am drugging my horse.

[OneGrayPony]

It isn’t an industry that deserves to die. It’s an industry that needs to reform. You can be done with it, but I still love it as do many others. IMO, nothing beats a beautiful round from a top quality hunter.

Hear Hear.

I am just not sure how it’s possible anymore. Anything subjective will be done to an extreme - humans just don’t seem to be capable of anything else. Perhaps if horses also have to jump outdoor courses, or something that gets them closer to the original intent…maybe something like that would work?

[MIKES_MCS]

there has been a couple of very interesting and very viable solutions to consider through this thread.
**Assigned judges ***
I like that idea and it is totally doeable . We make a pretense of a governing body , when all along it is actually show managers who govern this sport , this idea of assigning judges is one worth serious debate

[amastrike]

This thread inspired me to look through JMR… Yeah, not remotely impressed by Robert Gage’s critiques, particularly of equitation. Maybe he’s a better teacher in person…

[vxf111]

I don’t think Perfect Prep likely has MUCH of an effect. But giving it to a horse for quieting purposes is clearly prohibited regardless of efficacy. And a carded judge should know that?!

[StrawberryFields]

how about she shortens her stirrups and stops riding off her hands. Too long stirrups and a forward horse are not the best convo. She will feel more stable in the air too instead of falling on his withers. Also, she is riding eq and not hunters so it’s OK to ride a little more boldly as long as he will come back. I suspect a lot of it has to do with position weakness and no core.

[Lix_Tetrax]

[QUOTE=amastrike;7647307]
This thread inspired me to look through JMR… Yeah, not remotely impressed by Robert Gage’s critiques, particularly of equitation. Maybe he’s a better teacher in person…[/QUOTE]

Agree. He seems to use the same phrases even if it’s not what the poster is asking. One particularly disturbing one is “nice ride but horse needs to be framed up”. Really?

[Thoroughbred1201]

[QUOTE=vxf111;7647330]
I don’t think Perfect Prep likely has MUCH of an effect. But giving it to a horse for quieting purposes is clearly prohibited regardless of efficacy. And a carded judge should know that?![/QUOTE]

Agreed. Whether it’s effective or not is beside the point. The rule book is very clear that NOTHING IS TO BE GIVEN TO A HORSE THAT WILL AFFECT ITS PERFORMANCE. It does NOT say that it’s fine to give just because it doesn’t test. Hence the very comprehensive rules about what can be given, how much, and when.

To hear a judge recommend something to alter the performance of a horse in the ring is really terrible.

[french_fry]

Gotta love all the armchair quarterbacks who could ride that big young horse around a big eq course at his second show better than his current rider (who needs to learn to ride, clearly.)

I’ll be awaiting the video.

[KateKat]

she actually has a couple vids on her youtube account of her riding a hunter class. I thought those rounds went a lot smoother.

[woodhillsmanhattan]

I am also appalled at this. Not the use of Perfect Prep in itself, it has it’s place…but it should not be suggested IN PLACE OF proper training, conditioning, and experience. Mr. Gage should remember his audience. He is not only addressing the rider that is seeking the critique. Other young riders (many who are not under the guidance of a professional) read JMR photo and video comments.

Also, I applaud her for bringing a young horse along. We should be encouraging juniors to ride green horses and put the mileage on themselves. She has a trainer on the ground and is obviously seeking help from other sources (albeit not a good source in JMR ;)).

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=Thoroughbred1201;7647391]
The rule book is very clear that NOTHING IS TO BE GIVEN TO A HORSE THAT WILL AFFECT ITS PERFORMANCE. [/QUOTE]

Actually, that isn’t quite true. Nothing is to be given FOR THE EXPRESS PURPOSE of affecting the horse’s performance. You can give something that addresses health concerns/nutritional deficiencies, you just cannot do it soley to affect performance.

[amastrike]

[QUOTE=french fry;7647400]
Gotta love all the armchair quarterbacks who could ride that big young horse around a big eq course at his second show better than his current rider (who needs to learn to ride, clearly.)

I’ll be awaiting the video.[/QUOTE]
Who was criticizing the rider? I think pretty much everyone took issue with the “professional” recommendation, not the rider. Yeah, the rider isn’t perfect–and she knows it, which is why she sent in the video for feedback. But she’s doing just fine, and would be better off carrying on and completely ignoring the JMR advice.

[AffirmedHope]

[QUOTE=RugBug;7647467]
Actually, that isn’t quite true. Nothing is to be given FOR THE EXPRESS PURPOSE of affecting the horse’s performance. You can give something that addresses health concerns/nutritional deficiencies, you just cannot do it soley to affect performance.[/QUOTE]

True, but I don’t think giving them Perfect Prep solely to keep them calm so they put in a better round (in theory, I doubt this actually has an effect, or an effect significant enough to override rider nerves and new arena/scary yellow tent flapping nerves) falls in that category.

One of the main ingredients is magnesium, I guess you could say your horse has a deficiency in that… only at horse shows…only when they are about to go into the ring…

[Thoroughbred1201]

[QUOTE=RugBug;7647467]
Actually, that isn’t quite true. Nothing is to be given FOR THE EXPRESS PURPOSE of affecting the horse’s performance. You can give something that addresses health concerns/nutritional deficiencies, you just cannot do it soley to affect performance.[/QUOTE]

You are correct. Thanks for clarifying what I was trying to say!

[dags]

I’m a little surprised folks think this is such an excellent example of a kid making up a green horse… second show and it’s doing the USEF Medal? First show it did the Junior Hunters… This is not really what I’d call a kid making up a green horse, my guess is it’s a super lucky young rider trying to figure out how to ride her freshly imported European jumper. No proof that’s the case and I may very well be wrong, but that would be my guess. It doesn’t make sense to send that peanut of a rider into the USEF Medal with that big ol’ horse at his second horse show. More likely this horse got experience somewhere, probably with a strong, deep-seated European rider that had him going like butter over 1.30m.

Kid is doing a lovely job trying, and horse is doing an amazing job being a sport about it, but that is a lot to ask him to adjust to if his previous life consisted of perfect distances and classically correct leg-to-hand riding. I would have some concern his sense of humor will start to ebb, especially if they’re going to try and figure this stuff out at 3’6".

On the PP issue, if I’m to remain sane I have to pick my battles in this sport and perfect prep isn’t really one of them. But to watch that video and think, “oh, he needs to be more dull!” definitely has my head shaking.

[woodhillsmanhattan]

[QUOTE=dags;7647514]

On the PP issue, if I’m to remain sane I have to pick my battles in this sport and perfect prep isn’t really one of them. But to watch that video and think, “oh, he needs to be more dull!” definitely has my head shaking.[/QUOTE]

I think most posters don’t have a problem with Perfect Prep but with the fact that Mr. Gage suggested it’s use. That was also his ONLY suggestion…

[stolen_virtue]

[QUOTE=RugBug;7647232]
Just to clarify, MY attitude disgusts you? I certainly hope that isn’t what you meant because I’m not sure how it could. I show for my own reward, not ribbons. Of course, they are nice, but I’m not really in the league to think I’m going to be winning much anyway.

It isn’t an industry that deserves to die. It’s an industry that needs to reform. You can be done with it, but I still love it as do many others. IMO, nothing beats a beautiful round from a top quality hunter.

If you think jumpers doesn’t have its own set of problems, you are burying your head in the sand.[/QUOTE]

No, not your attitude, what disgusts me is the attitude of a judge who has a lot of weight in our little riding club. You can seek reform, but this direction has been moving along with more pace for the last 20 years. It just isn’t worth it with young horses anymore, I’ll go elsewhere with my money.

[dags]

[QUOTE=woodhillsmanhattan;7647526]
I think most posters don’t have a problem with Perfect Prep but with the fact that Mr. Gage suggested it’s use. That was also his ONLY suggestion…[/QUOTE]

yup… but what gets me even more is that the suggestion, however inflammatory it may be, won’t even fix the “problem”?!

(problem in “” because there isn’t really a “problem”; horse is just big & young and kid is just tiny & young… both of these circumstances will change!)