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Situations like this are just so sad. I will never understand some people.
Just saw this - sorry for the delay
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;7529915]
To the poster who sent her horse to H-McG , and then had it boarded by this woman ----- How did your horse get from H-McG to Kate? Was it your choice? Haggardâs recommendation?
Even though I know that mare is safely back home, it seems to me that some weight might be brought on H-McG to find some responsibility on their part for not notifying horse owners, allowing this woman to be involved with horses under their care and treatment, whatever.
Point being, H-McG has a reputation to uphold, and its reputation will be damaged by being associated with this woman. Perhaps H-McG can be asked/used to publicize the situation these horses are now in. It has a lot of credence in the Lex. area.[/QUOTE]
H-McG was awesome. My mare was there & being looked at on KOs farm & at their clinic for treatment & breeding. They reported each & every small detail to me. If my mare looked a little lean, they told me & I spoke with KO. I paid for my feed direct at the feed store & in theory, KO fed it as I instructed. KO was very well aware my repro vet was constantly monitoring & reporting back to me. I think she was more cautious about feeding my horse because she knew I would find out if she wasnât feeding. My horse was back & forth to the clinic & KOs farm so I had a hauler that I paid direct. The last trip off the farm was a planned breeding which turned into an emergency - cellulitis/high fever/not weight bearing/leg swollen like a tree trunk up to the stifle. It was unnoticed at KOs farm so I was thankful we had a scheduled breeding date at the clinic. H-McG was amazing & in no way missing any detail in my case. This all took place during the summer when grass was aplenty so I donât believe other horses were in the type of condition they are now. My horse is not the easiest keeper and she was about a 4 per the vet. She left my farm 5. I am neurotic about horses & weight so any drop is immediately noticed! She stepped off the trailer at my farm about a 4 & with cellulitis & antibiotics & a treatment plan (hosing/walking, etc). My horse wasnât in dire straights (& this took place a year ago), so I donât think the vets did anything to point the finger about. They were professional & kept me in the loop about each & every little thing that was happening & I am oh so very grateful they were!
[QUOTE=GutsNGlory;7534319]
Posting on behalf of Barbara Bright Meyer, owner of Jangle (aka Hannah):
I have remained quiet for long enoughâŠ. While I find it unproductive to participate in a âHe said/She saidâ debate on a public bulletin board, I do want to express some thoughts on the subject of the Kate Ostermeier Situation.
I am one of the mare owners⊠maybe the luckiest mare ownerâŠ.as my mare weathered the storm better than most. My mare is Hannah⊠Let me be the first to tell you Mr Wosenko, that as good as my mare looked on the OUTSIDE in comparison to the others, not all was as it seemed on the inside. She was heavily loaded with worms, almost DOUBLE what is considered HIGH RISK. When I had her removed, she was placed in a clinic in Lexington. To the best of my knowledge, she had received no pre-natal vaccines during her pregnancy, never ultra sounded for twins, and had no routine farrier care. While that may not be a problem for you, it is for me. I was raised to be a Horsemen. Tried and true. I take my Stewardship of these AMAZING animals very seriously. They survive and prosper because of the care that we give them. The pedigrees continue because we cherish who they are and where they came from. I have a vision for future generations of our sport to promote and provide them with the best possible vehicles to obtain the highest standards of competition in our Industry. These animals are not to be taken for granted and thrown away like a dirty shirt. They are to be cherished, and appreciated and cared for. They do not ask for much in return. I must admit I found your posts to be callous, uncaring and disrespectful towards those who mares and owners who have suffered so much. I guess that is the difference between you and me. I openly admit that I am no one important in this Industry. I am just someone who has always believed and will continue to believe, that no matter what THE HORSE COMES FIRST!
Best Regards, and I wish you the very best with Poppy and her foal.
Barbara Bright Meyer
Zionsville, IN[/QUOTE]
First let me say - I feel very much the same as GutsNGlory about all horses and am even more particular about this for all of my horses. While I understand the challenges that many of us face today with economics in general, I also understand those challenges as a multi-horse owner and that âsh** happensâ (please excuse the language). I used to breed, but have taken a break from breeding to focus on what I currently have, which equals seven horses today.
When faced with many personal and economical challenges over the last few years, and having to make some very tough choices that not only affected me, but my family, my home and my horses - I still did my best to make sure that the basics were met for all, including my horses.
Regarding KO - unfortunately, I have some history with her and a few years ago, during my time of challenges - allowed her to lease my mare, Dorina H (Alexa) for breeding. She seems to follow the same pattern of talking a really good talk (seeing that with the current situation), she spoke on the same level regarding care and nutrition and I did have some concerns, which we reviewed, but with a contract in place that I felt comfortable with, my mare was shipped from CA to KY. I made a point to request photos and calls on a regular basis, which started out fine, but then became near impossible to get.
During the time that Alexa was âwithâ KO, to my understanding - when she did receive care it was usually from other people, as KO appeared to be travelling constantly. From my understanding, Alexa was outside majority of the time, until she had multiple abcesses on her feet, causing her to be lame and then was locked up in a stall, where she developed âheavesâ and didnât receive treatment until I was ready to retrieve Alexa (at the end) and had the vet out to do Coggins and Health Certificate. Alexa never had heaves before KO, and since she has been back with me, it has cleared up and she thankfully no longer has heaves.
At one point, a friend went to go check on Alexa for me, only to not find her at KOâs place - she was missing. When we did find her - a person (out of what seemed to be many and constantly changing) that KO had convinced to âcareâ for her horses, brought Alexa to her own place, in order to treat the abcesses.
Alexa lost weight, but not to nearly the point of the poor horses involved in the current situation. Overall, she was in much poorer condition coming back to me, than when she left - I have pics and documentation to support that).
KO approached me last year and the previous year, asking for an opportunity to lease another mare of mine, Giada which I thankfully declined, as she could have easily been in the current situation.
Because of my experience with KO, I would never lease any of my horses âoff farmâ. In the end, even though I fully believe the stipulations in the contract were not upheld (even at a minimum), I chose to not pusue legal actions and considered myself âluckyâ to get Alexa away from KO and make a full recovery.
I have provided a statement to AC to hopefully provide âhistoryâ for the current case. I truly hope justice will prevail and all of the horses make a full recovery.
Additionally, I did see Cobra One at the end of last year and noticed he appeared to be a bit âribbyâ and on the thin side - have some pics that I took as well. Iâm not sure what he looks like today, but doubt he looks as good as he did when he was at Jump Start Farm.
ARRRRRRgggggghhhh This IS why you do NOT sell for $1!!! you sign a bill of sale you agree to SELL (for those who seem to be having difficulty with the English language that means it becomes THEIRS and NOT YOURS you canât say MINE MINE MINE GIMME GIMME OR GIVE IT GIVE IT ever again) for anything for any amount you have NO LEGAL RIGHT TO IT OR HOW IT IS CARED FOR ANYMORE!!! Unfortunately in this case the âitâ is living creatures, feel sorry for them that they were owned by such gullible and then cruel 2 legged creatures. Spare me the details of the desperate circumstances that forced owners to part with their âbeloved babiesââŠthere are plenty of options other than selling for $1. And I hope everyone posting about this is putting as much effort into trying to prevent and solve these kinds of problematic situations rather than repeating their disgust at the problem. âDoes the world really need it? Cuz if ya breed it ya gotta feed itâ
I have been out of the loop the last two weeks but I just found out about this late last evening. All I can say is WOW, she has created quite the mess. First of all, how in the world was she able to obtain such a quality stallion? I imagine he couldnât have been cheap but was she the owner or her fianancial backers ? Sadly I went to Midway with Kate and was actually her first year roommate and know a little about her, but not much recent. I know she was a reasonably good rider and was on the hunt seat team for Midway. In addition she had three horses her freshman year, the gray she called Silver (Iâm guessing Idle Hour), a chestnut tb named Penny, and a Dutch Warmblood mare (unsure of the name). I know they were with her parents who lived just down from Midway and they housed them. They were well kept and looked in excellent shape. However, her parents not her were caring for them. They attempted to breed them several times without success using AI. I do know they were using George Sutton DVM who was in private practice and referred to Hagyards as their vet. I use a different practice in town so Iâm unsure if he is still in practice or her vet. I DO know she is well aware of how to care for horses and there is no excuse for not doing so. Ignorance is not an excuse she can use.
First thing to be addressed : Can you be arrested for not paying traffic tickets? Yes and No in the state of KY. What likely happened was she received a minor ticket like a speeding ticket, was supposed to show up in traffic court and didnât. As a result here, they suspend your license. Chances are she was driving on a suspended license which yes is an arrestable offense. A judge also has the option to issue a bench warrant for failure to appear in court which may have happened. So yes, you can be arrested. Usually a relatively minor deal and if first time released on own recognizance and given a second court date (if again no appear then yes a bench warrant is issued certainly and they spend a portion of time in hotel orange jumpsuit). Typically though they tell you resolve the past due tickets, get your license reinstated ($40 fee here), and show court proof at next court date. Judge can give up to 6 months for someone to do this. So that in and of itself is not a concerning issue. Found myself in that situation when a speeding ticket was not reported as paid. I was pulled over 2 years later it was discovered. I had never been sent the letter informing me of a suspension. I ended up showing them the receipt of where the ticket was paid and it was resolved and doesnât ever show on a background check nor was I ever fingerprinted or win a picture in an orange jumpsuit.
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Another thing I have discovered is the state of KY is WORTHLESS when it comes to dealing with abuse cases. I was dealing with a case of someone who didnât care for her horses in a self care situation that shared a barn with me and horses scoring a body condition of 1-2 average. Moldy hay, no water, stalls never cleaned, and horses were without feed for over a month that I know of, feet so bad filled with thrust, white line, and being gaited horses in pads, feet were elfing with pads. A 7 month old foal resembled a 3 month old and 2 months of straight tail soaking diarrhea. 16 horses in an average paddock. Called multiple times, even went to county attorneyâs office and met with him pleading to take it seriously. I eventually spoke with someone I knew associated with the state vet and was informed âI have more important cases, if there isnât a dead horse on the property I canât do much about it.â In KY if there is hay on the property, even if they canât access it, they wonât do anything because itâs there despite horses condition. Itâs pathetic other states are so far ahead of us. And whatâs the worst, if they do eventually get around to going and looking the people (which are almost always behind in payment significantly) the owners of the farm immediately proceed with eviction proceedings. They then pull up stakes and just move elsewhere typically another county because there are plenty of farms for rent around. They just repeat over and over and by time they make it back into the original county, the case has been long closed. Or if the owners as several in this case have, remove the horse, itâs case is closed and it becomes a non priority. There are several people like that in the area who have just gone round and round. About a year ago, there was a case that has been going on for close to 20 years involving the Murty Brothers (KY people will know well who I am discussing - at one time had a partnership in the Slew Team - Seattle Slew). Bigtime horse traders of track horses most famous for ComAir jet crashing on their property. Made millions of dollars off the annexing of the farm they were at by the airport for much needed runway extension. Still donât pay their bills. About a year ago found horses locked in stalls in horrid conditions and terrible weight and animal control stood by and watched allowing them to move the horses to a new farm in Bourbon county. Itâs sad but unless one is dead, they just donât care.
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She has now turned her game to a new farm in another county. Evidently quite a nice setup. I imagine just a matter of time before we hear about it again.
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She has been a no pay for quite a while. Our freshman year, we decided to be partners on a single horse to retrain and resell. For the simple fact, she had the farm and facility, and I had the opportunity with a nice horse but couldnât afford board on an additional horse on a college student budget. She offered to board him at her farm for let down from the track. We agreed to split the shipping bill from the track with a professional shipping company. As a result they were made aware of the partnership. I paid my portion that day, and she said she would pay her half the first of the next month (was within 30 days which at the time was permitted by the company so I didnât object). She never paid, I received multiple calls, gave them her info, she never paid and I was forced to pay. I immediately took possession of the horse, moved him and sold him the following weekend for what I had in him. She never paid a cent back. Needless to say was the end of our association together. I found out later that month that her parents had just paid for her to get a custom Devacoux saddle. Words donât describe how angry I was as I truly didnt have the extra money at the time, but didnât want to have my reputation ruined so I paid and just crunched in other areas. Needless to say I worked more than a few hours of overtime to compensate.
I am thoroughly disgusted. I googled her and saw pics of her horses on the net and all look to be in good condition in the photos, but perhaps she kept them in good weight to present [edit]. I donât know what to say except no excuse. She had what everybody dreams of a big financial backer, wonderfully bred mares, able to compete in FL (saw where she had horses at the YHS in FL last year), and great facility and she threw it all away. I donât understand it. This girl worked for Hagyards (so was knowledgeable and how likely the referral to her farm was probably made. Rood and Riddle does the same thing for layup farms if they know many of their techs have suitable facilities. Ideal situation to follow a horseâs recovery), went to Midway, had financial backing, had access to great horses, was in a position where she could have really done well and perhaps been on of the few to have actually been successful in the breeding game. Instead didnât go so well. Iâm sorry to hear this. I hope for all the horseâs sakes they are able to get cared for appropriately before its too late.
As for Cobra One, I HIGHLY doubt he looks as nice as he did when at Jump Start. The owner takes excellent care of those horses and I did see him a few years ago and he looked amazing as a friend was interested in breeding to him, and wanted me to look at him since I live so close which I did.
Horses can be left outside 24/7 without being in bad shape if checked, monitored, and watched to see if there are problems. Run in sheds are a requirement. Blankets in bad weather. Feet checked and maintained. Most large farms here do keep their mares out most all the time but with run in sheds, are fed in addition to it, and are checked daily for things that need addressed. This includes million dollar mares. Rachel Alexandra spends most of of her time hanging outside. I have no objection to it but a few musts. They MUST be checked for injuries, issues daily. They MUST have access to adequate run in shelter. They MUST be blanketed in bad weather. And they MUST receive adequate feed, water, and care. Those are non negotiables. I agree when you sell or give away a horse, itâs a tough deal. You think you are doing right, but later discover you didnât. Sometimes things donât go as you hope but unfortunately you have lost your rights to the horse. On the other hand, if you have Leased the horse, thatâs a whole 'nother ballgame. That is your horse and regardless of what they like it is still your horse and if they donât provide adequate care you have every right to get your horse back and the right to know where the horse is at all times and who is caring for it.
BT, most of these mares were leased, so while your point is valid, it is not germane.
True I did realize this, a lease allows you to specify/monitor âITâ's care/condition however is written in the lease and owner may retrieve âITâ, yes of course it is complicated and even more so when unborn babies are involved. What astounded me was the âOMG she wonât give up/sell what she now ownsâ mentality. To paraphrase a song âwhat kinda gone did ya think KO was talking about when ya put that mare on the trailerâ
What kinda gone? What does that mean? Are you saying she clued them in to the fact that she planned [edit] before they left but the owners went through with it anyway?
I think the context here is that Kate is in some dire straits and the original owner stepped up to offer to help, then it snowballed.
Everyone here is suffering from hind sight. The purpose of the thread is to finally put the story to the public. Had any of us known we would have not given her the time of day.
I do know that this thread is working. She is still out there looking for her next mark. And one of those found this. It comes up #1 on the google search.
OH FFS!! it means they should have expected to have very slim (leased) to no (sold) chance to control the mares circumstances or change them if they were not as expected. I am sure they were all hoping for the best, but they did not exactly prepare for the worstâŠeven a quick monthly check in person or by someone else trustworthy would have made it possible to get a leased mare the hell outta there or food in her before she dropped to a bcs of 2.
Donât cry too loudly about your spilled milk when you knocked over the glassâŠI have been there, had a HORRIBLE free lease experience with my pony for the opposite reason they let her get OBESE.
Gone just for the nightâŠgone for the rest your dog gone lifeâŠ
When I am entrusted with the care of someone elseâs animal I take as good or better care than if they were my own. I would expect someone else to do the same.
[QUOTE=bt;7536682]
ARRRRRRgggggghhhh This IS why you do NOT sell for $1!!! you sign a bill of sale you agree to SELL (for those who seem to be having difficulty with the English language that means it becomes THEIRS and NOT YOURS you canât say MINE MINE MINE GIMME GIMME OR GIVE IT GIVE IT ever again) for anything for any amount you have NO LEGAL RIGHT TO IT OR HOW IT IS CARED FOR ANYMORE!!! Unfortunately in this case the âitâ is living creatures, feel sorry for them that they were owned by such gullible and then cruel 2 legged creatures. Spare me the details of the desperate circumstances that forced owners to part with their âbeloved babiesââŠthere are plenty of options other than selling for $1. And I hope everyone posting about this is putting as much effort into trying to prevent and solve these kinds of problematic situations rather than repeating their disgust at the problem. âDoes the world really need it? Cuz if ya breed it ya gotta feed itâ[/QUOTE]
Iâm sure not going to try to defend my choices, because itâs obvious they were faulty. Itâs not wrong to give up horses that need more care than you can provide⊠but it is wrong to give them up without a good contract. I am surprised that after reading everything in this thread, you choose me to fuss about⊠but you have a good point. Let my situation be a lesson to others. I loved an old mare who could no longer tolerate the climate where I live. I struggled to care for her, and thought I won the lottery when Kate contacted me. I pictured her living fat and happy in the beautiful Kentucky blue grass, being pampered in all the ways Kate promised to pamper her. I gave her up with tears in my eyes, believing I was doing what was right⊠but was devastatingly wrong. I made a bad choice, did the wrong thing, was mistaken, was gullible, stupid and naive.
Kate should still give Zena back. We have a prominent, respected horse owner willing to give her a proven quality home. The mare is a high maintenance, elderly horse and Kate is being inscrutably stubborn in keeping her. My choices are at least explainable.
Sorry to see all this. I knew Cobra One when he was first imported. Hope heâs okay!
[QUOTE=WendyLiopiros;7536958]
Iâm sure not going to try to defend my choices, because itâs obvious they were faulty. Itâs not wrong to give up horses that need more care than you can provide⊠but it is wrong to give them up without a good contract. I am surprised that after reading everything in this thread, you choose me to fuss about⊠but you have a good point. Let my situation be a lesson to others. I loved an old mare who could no longer tolerate the climate where I live. I struggled to care for her, and thought I won the lottery when Kate contacted me. I pictured her living fat and happy in the beautiful Kentucky blue grass, being pampered in all the ways Kate promised to pamper her. I gave her up with tears in my eyes, believing I was doing what was right⊠but was devastatingly wrong. I made a bad choice, did the wrong thing, was mistaken, was gullible, stupid and naive.
Kate should still give Zena back. We have a prominent, respected horse owner willing to give her a proven quality home. The mare is a high maintenance, elderly horse and Kate is being inscrutably stubborn in keeping her. My choices are at least explainable.[/QUOTE]
I am going to defend you. I think you made the best choice at the time based on the knowledge and promises you had and were given at the time. Kate Oscarmayer should give you your horse back, simply because you asked, in good faith in return.
As in all aspects of life, 20/20 hindsight is just that. You have âownedâ your mistake and have done more than most would have in the same situation and I personally admire you for that.
To the poster(s) who feel it necessary to crucify you and vilify you, they obviously have no clue, have not read your heartfelt posts full of pain and lack normal human decency and compassion. Shame on them.
please help
i know a particular mare involved and i do not want to go into any details. but i need to know which ones were taken to the spca. and what spca. i am coming to ky next weekend for rolex and if by chance i can retrieve this mareâŠi want to rescue /take her home with me. can anyone that is directly involvedâŠwho knows of the horses she has thereâŠplease pm me. thank you for any help you can provide.
[QUOTE=WendyLiopiros;7536958]
Iâm sure not going to try to defend my choices, because itâs obvious they were faulty. Itâs not wrong to give up horses that need more care than you can provide⊠but it is wrong to give them up without a good contract. I am surprised that after reading everything in this thread, you choose me to fuss about⊠but you have a good point. Let my situation be a lesson to others. I loved an old mare who could no longer tolerate the climate where I live. I struggled to care for her, and thought I won the lottery when Kate contacted me. I pictured her living fat and happy in the beautiful Kentucky blue grass, being pampered in all the ways Kate promised to pamper her. I gave her up with tears in my eyes, believing I was doing what was right⊠but was devastatingly wrong. I made a bad choice, did the wrong thing, was mistaken, was gullible, stupid and naive.
Kate should still give Zena back. We have a prominent, respected horse owner willing to give her a proven quality home. The mare is a high maintenance, elderly horse and Kate is being inscrutably stubborn in keeping her. My choices are at least explainable.[/QUOTE]
Wendy - please donât beat yourself up over your choices. You did not make bad choices.
I think itâs important to remember that when each of us have had some challenges and whatever the reasons have been - we were looking for for options for our mares, whether they were temporary or permanent. These mares werenât dumped off some where, sent to auction for kill buyers or sent directly to slaughter. We were painted a beautiful picture for our mares by a person who is very gifted in putting up this facade, only to find out about being duped by a con artist.
As I am going through messages and e-mail from my experience, I am angry that I believed and constantly gave the benefit of the doubt to KO. As I read things about the current mess of situations that has been created, I see more of how I was duped by the very talented KO. I donât think it is stubbornness that is keeping Zena from being given a chance to recover in a new home. I believe it is selfishness, heartlessness and ego that allows one to sleep at night, instead of being humane and doing right by Zena.
[QUOTE=Home Again Farm;7525119]
If this is as outlined, it is another example of why selling broodmares cheaply or free leasing them to people that you do not truly know is unwise.[/QUOTE]
Giving horses away rarely ends well.
My veterinarian said that if the owner doesnât place a value on a horse, itâs highly unlikely the next person will.
Anyone have any news of the stallion, makes me cringe to think of what his state could be.
I was asked to take a horse by my long time neighbor, a 29 year old Arab. She is so much happier with a herd and she has better facilities for her age. Giving horses away is not a bad thing IF the person getting them has no alternative motives - and that is rare. But you have to ask the Question, Why do they want this horse?
I would actually ask a couple of questions and have someone, if not myself, check the place out. One question is where are the horses with no use now? If someone is willing to do this and has horses, they usually have a couple already or at least one. This at least shows they are sincere about keeping older horses.
They probably have to have their own farm or a lot of resourceâs and a huge heart.
If they want them for breeding, you have to be careful, to be honest. Most breeders are âbusinessâ people and have mares to retire already. Plus, unless your mare is something amazing, genetic wise, and they are into ET, most of the time 1 or 2 foals is not going to be a reason to give a horse a home.
And they should have a herd out back that is well cared for. I bet someone who occasionally wants to ride or have a horse to pet is generally a safer option.
Someone should write up a sticky with past experiences and general recommendations for giving horses away. There are some common errors that keep popping up and it is not people being negligent or stupid, but just not knowing how things work and as a community we have that knowledge and should share for the sake of the horses.
