^^^^You make some very good points. In this situation, it sounds as though most people who free leased their mares to KO thought their mares were going into a nice environment and would be well cared for. I don’t think anyone expected [edit]. In a perfect world, the people you intrust would do as they promise. I really hope this mare situation will be resolved sooner than later and the mares can find a soft place to land. JMV
[QUOTE=Zuri;7537792]
^^^^You make some very good points. In this situation, it sounds as though most people who free leased their mares to KO thought their mares were going into a nice environment and would be well cared for. I don’t think anyone expected [edit]. In a perfect world, the people you intrust would do as they promise. I really hope this mare situation will be resolved sooner than later and the mares can find a soft place to land. JMV[/QUOTE]
Sure, that is exactly what they thought. BUT from experience, how many really responsible breeders use cast away mares as a basis for their breeding herd? Most of the time, it is people like Jill and this lady and others that have figured out that free mares bred to popular stallions or their stallions is a good way to make money.
There is the occasional free mare that is very well bred and competed that would possibly make a decent brood mare but usually those people are not going to be preyed upon as easily and reputable breeders will get a hold of those horses and will be probably be willing to pay.
That is what I mean by the community having knowledge.
[QUOTE=stoicfish;7537822]
Sure, that is exactly what they thought. BUT from experience, how many really responsible breeders use cast away mares as a basis for their breeding herd? Most of the time, it is people like Jill and this lady and others that have figured out that free mares bred to popular stallions or their stallions is a good way to make money.
There is the occasional free mare that is very well bred and competed that would possibly make a decent brood mare but usually those people are not going to be preyed upon as easily and reputable breeders will get a hold of those horses and will be probably be willing to pay.
That is what I mean by the community having knowledge.[/QUOTE]
You write so beautifully and I wish you would write an op-ed piece for the COTH.
One of my best friends free leased her mare to a reputable breeder as her mare needed time off from an injury. She truly thought she was doing the right thing. Her mare had a lovely foal and was returned to her in deplorable condition. She spent another year rehabbing her mare from horrible foot care, a stifle injury that went untreated, and being horrendously underweight. Her vet had been the one to recommend this farm and felt so badly that she treated the mare for free once my friend had her back.
What recourse do you have when you have a lease contract in place and expectations are not met? I think you are so right that there are many people like my friend who are easily persuaded and assured that their horse will be treated as the other horses owned by the farm are. Please consider writing the op-Ed piece!
[QUOTE=stoicfish;7537822]
Sure, that is exactly what they thought. BUT from experience, how many really responsible breeders use cast away mares as a basis for their breeding herd? Most of the time, it is people like Jill and this lady and others that have figured out that free mares bred to popular stallions or their stallions is a good way to make money.
There is the occasional free mare that is very well bred and competed that would possibly make a decent brood mare but usually those people are not going to be preyed upon as easily and reputable breeders will get a hold of those horses and will be probably be willing to pay.
That is what I mean by the community having knowledge.[/QUOTE]
While you make a good point, I think it’s important to note that these mares were NOT “castaways” as you called them and that’s really insulting to the owners. To my knowledge, the majority of these mares were free leased to Kate not as a way to get rid of them, but only for the time during which they were to be bred/carry/raise the foal to weaning. Then, they would be welcomed back to their loving homes and return to other uses. These were quality, well-bred mares with plenty of life left. The mare I’m familiar with is only 7, another is only 5!
These people met KO (at least the owner I know) through other very reputable people in the horse industry. I’ve been involved in the horse industry some 15+ years, and I accompanied my friend(who’s had horses for ~40 years) to drop her mare off with KO. We toured the farm she was leasing at the time, saw all the other horses, played with the stallion, then all went to lunch. I am an experienced horse person. The girl (KO) knows how to talk the talk. I had no doubt she knew what she was doing when it came to horse management. That is EXACTLY why this situation is so heinous. KO DOES know how to care for horses, she just simply didn’t care enough to do it!!
Those of you chastising the mare owners for allowing this to happen, shame on you!! Do you think they don’t feel enough guilt already? It’s NOT their fault! The blame rests solely on the shoulders of KO. Yes, when you sell/lease/give away a horse there is a risk that the taker will abuse or neglect the horse. However, I suspect these owners all did as much homework or more than the average person. I saw nothing in Kate or her farm/current horses that threw up any red flags.
I once had my car stolen. I had unfortunately had left the keys in it. Someone told me that I deserved to have my car stolen. Um, no! Leaving the keys made it easy for someone to take advantage, but just because some scumball rose to the occasion doesn’t make them right and me wrong!! I deserved to walk back into the garage to find my car where I left it! Just like these mare owners deserved to have their mares cared for the way KO promised she would!!
[QUOTE=stoicfish;7537822]
<snip>There is the occasional free mare that is very well bred and competed that would possibly make a decent brood mare but usually those people are not going to be preyed upon as easily and reputable breeders will get a hold of those horses and will be probably be willing to pay.<snip>[/QUOTE]
I have 4 free mares as the basis of my breeding program. All 4 are impeccably bred, have very good competition records, and 3 of them had produced foals in Europe before being imported as competition horses. To imply that mares being free leased or given away are not of good quality or that breeders who use those mares are not responsible is really quite rude.
I do agree that people need to do their due diligence, and admittedly I have failed in this respect at times myself. But those of us that love our horses will try our best to do right by them, and that includes sometimes trusting others. The important thing here is that once the situation was discovered (which, yes, should have happened sooner) the owners rectified it as soon as they possibly could.
And I absolutely believe we should share our knowledge. It’s obvious there were signs that problems were coming and people that did lease mares to KO weren’t warned as they maybe should or could have been…
My takeaway from stoicfish’s posts were meant to be more in the general sense, not specifically the mare owners in the KO horror. The posts above it were general which is what I think was addressed. Generally speaking, owners of horses that free lease their horses out, without doing their due diligence, are at risk. The mare owners in this horror obviously did their due diligence and were still duped by Kon Oscarmayer. JMV
While you make a good point, I think it’s important to note that these mares were NOT “castaways” as you called them and that’s really insulting to the owners.
They shouldn’t be as you took that out of context. I was only referring to the poor lady that gave her mare away. That was very clear in my posts.
Be insulted at what you want but you might find people are nicer than you think if you actually take the comments as they were meant.
[QUOTE=BlueLodge;7537721]
Giving horses away rarely ends well.
My veterinarian said that if the owner doesn’t place a value on a horse, it’s highly unlikely the next person will.[/QUOTE]
I disagree. I gave away all my horses when they were done racing. I felt I could be much more selective in who they went to than if I sold them to whoever showed up with the cash.
I have 4 free mares as the basis of my breeding program. All 4 are impeccably bred, have very good competition records, and 3 of them had produced foals in Europe before being imported as competition horses. To imply that mares being free leased or given away are not of good quality or that breeders who use those mares are not responsible is really quite rude.
This was taken in context. 
If you have brilliant mares that were given to you instead of sold, you are a lucky person. I was on a buying trip with a friend in the last year who paid a great deal for mares of quality.
So if you have had mares given to you that have a great deal of market value, once again, lucky person. Most mares of quality do not come to people that easily and I think I can still fairly say that in the context of my original post, that people usually do not get quality mares for free.
If a mare has no market value…then you can be insulted but your peers are disagreeing with you about that value. Don’t be mad at me.
I also agree that in the past few years that there ARE good broodmares being given away to GOOD breeding homes. Some retired from competition, some from retiring breeders that want to be sure their “girls” land softly in a good place and have job security. Of course, you will not likely find the up and coming mares by the “hot” stallions for free or free lease. But, to insinuate that a free mare denotes lack of quality or that quality breeders do not have some of these mares is silly. I too have a few WELL Bred imported mares that were given to me as broodmares…many starting their broodmare jobs later in life as they were competition horses prior.
Mine were given to me by their competition homes while still sellable. Were they retired for a reason? Of course. But they could have continued on as show horses with maintenance. The owner said to me that they would rather retire them sound so they could be comfortable being broodmares, than to sell them and have them ridden into the ground and be uncomfortable being anything. Those are the owners I want to sell my horses to!
once again…does anyone know if any of the mares she owned or thinks she owns were taken to the spca. please pm me. i am trying to find out about a particular mare.
If you read the first post of the thread there is some contact information.
[QUOTE=wookie;7538497]
once again…does anyone know if any of the mares she owned or thinks she owns were taken to the spca. please pm me. i am trying to find out about a particular mare.[/QUOTE]
I have PM’d wookie and given an update on the requested horse.
I’ve posted it on here once before, but I have a feeling it gets lost and we really need more signatures! If less than 1/10th of the people who have viewed this thread signed, we would be far past our goal. Please help by signing and sending forth!
^ Thank you for the reminder. Signed and shared via Facebook
does anyone know where kate went and is now located? or contact infor. i need to see this mare. thank you guts n glory.
Signed Petition
[QUOTE=wookie;7538497]
once again…does anyone know if any of the mares she owned or thinks she owns were taken to the spca. please pm me. i am trying to find out about a particular mare.[/QUOTE]
PM me with the mare’s name and I’ll ask the group of owners if they know anything. They have a good idea where each mare has gone.
[QUOTE=stoicfish;7537822]
from experience, how many really responsible breeders use cast away mares as a basis for their breeding herd?.[/QUOTE]
Does this look like the pedigree of a “cast away”? http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/zena24
How about this? http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/sincere8
These were worthy mares, who were loved. Not “cast aways”. Free leasing is often how people who care about their horses control who gets access to them. In this situation… that back fired. However, Kate knows a quality pedigree and that is why she wanted our mares. Please don’t down play their value in this world by labeling them in such a degrading way. It’s insulting, and unnecessary… And truly, the crime would be the same if they were all crippled donkeys. Starving an animal is starving an animal… Regardless of their value to the rest of the world.
[QUOTE=GutsNGlory;7538550]
I’ve posted it on here once before, but I have a feeling it gets lost and we really need more signatures! If less than 1/10th of the people who have viewed this thread signed, we would be far past our goal. Please help by signing and sending forth!
Change.org Petition[/QUOTE]
Signed. Everyone should!
