Katie Price aka Jordan restate her Olympic ambitions (**Video**)

[slc2]

I don’t actually think snobbism is non existent. Of course it exists. But I think people read far, far too much into it. Anyone who does anything different from how they do is a ‘snob’.

What I think is that people who are constantly complaining and miserable because they assume that everything some group of people do is due to ‘snobbism’, that is a problem they are making, not a problem with other people.

I think there is actually a TON of ‘reverse snobbism’ among people in dressage. It’s actually quite peculiar, but very prevalent. Someone has an expensive horse, people get very, very defensive. Someone has nice clothes or a nice truck, people get just AWFUL about it. Jealously, pure and simple, but no one seems to think so when it’s themselves who are jealous. God forbid that person should ever do halfway well, they will be despised even more.

You can’t legitimately call someone a snob just because they spent more on their horse than you, or manage it differently than you, or get a professional coach, and there’s far, far too much of that going around in horsey circles.

People call others ‘snobs’ for some pretty ridiculous reasons, and assume that what the other person does is due to ‘snobbism’ rather than just having a different way of doing something. They assume automatically that it’s some threat to them and start trashing the person.

Dressage IS difficult. Because someone wants to concentrate while they ride, doesn’t make them a snob. Because someone isn’t yelling and screaming and whooping like a cowboy, doesn’t mean they’re bad, or a snob or putting you down.

Because someone has money and time, more than you do, doesn’t make them a snob. If they’re fussy about horse care, that doesn’t make them a snob, they just have a different idea how to care for their horse. If they want to win or do win, that doesn’t make them a snob. If they don’t gush all over you and your horse, that doesn’t make them a snob. I’ve seen a lot of very nice people called snobs because they just weren’t loud and gushy. A lot of fairly quiet, thoughtful people are drawn to dressage. They don’t all have used car salesman personalities.

Some people look AWFUL hard to find a way in which someone else is putting them down. I think people can be WAY too defensive and look way, way too hard for a way to put someone down when they feel unsure of themselves. People can be hypersensitive and way overinterpret another person’s behavior.

I think stuge has a lot of good points. There are bad things in the world. To dwell on them, to make that an excuse to be miserable or not try, or to be just as rude as one imagines others are being…that’s just an excuse for lazy ways of thinking and behaving.

[Kaeleer]

Uh, Slc, I think you’re misreading my post! I didn’t accuse anybody of being a snob. I said that a friend of mine had asked why they didn’t look like they were having any fun. It’s not something I’d picked up on before (other than as a another reason why I hate dressage shows - they’re no bloody fun!) but it was interesting to take a step back and look at it through her eyes.

I’m just as guilty (see aforesaid statement about dressage shows not being fun) and I really think that a lot of the problem is trying not to “stand out”. You toe the line because you don’t want to be frowned upon. That means behaving in a certain fashion, dressing a certain way, etc.

I don’t really understand it, because I have partied with some upper-level dressage riders and they can party HARD, but even they say that shows are serious stuff.

My experience is with SJ and eventing, where a show is a p-a-r-t-y! Even the big shows are a huge laugh, which is why I’m so happy to be an official at them. I actually can have a good time marshalling at the warmup arena.

I refuse to work at dressage shows. I’ve done it three times and was bored to tears. Not because the riders are snobs - as I said, I socialise with quite a few dressage riders, including a number of our local upper level riders - but they’re really uptight at a show. The upper-level showjumpers still find the time to have a laugh and a chat. The dressage riders aren’t snobs, they’re just SERIOUS!

[slc2]

Uh, Slc, I think you’re misreading my post!

–Why do you think my post is directed at you? In fact, it is NOT directed at you. Those were general comments.

I didn’t accuse anybody of being a snob. I said that a friend of mine had asked why they didn’t look like they were having any fun. It’s not something I’d picked up on before (other than as a another reason why I hate dressage shows - they’re no bloody fun!) but it was interesting to take a step back and look at it through her eyes.

–I think it’s a little bit of hair splitting, but I think you fail to understand WHY people show.

–First of all, ask yourself - what shows that they’re not ‘having fun’? Because they want tell you to leave them alone, or they don’t smile, or they’re a little snappy?

–And you think other shows are a big party? Why? Because there’s more booze around?

–Because some people are making clever comments about other competitors, that make you laugh, or saying they will make out their last will, ha ha ha, before they go in the ring?

–Sounds like some combination of needing to focus and a little performance anxiety.

–Dressage is a little bit more like a piano recital than other sports. It takes a lot of concentration to do well. And people DO get nervous.

–Ask yourself - exactly how would you change it, what kind of fun do you want it to be?

–Beginner riders being scared to death by people screaming and yelling? People being thrown off their game because they can’t focus on their job at hand? Dressage is not like a lot of other passtimes…it does actually take some concentration and focus. It’s hard work.

–Too, beginner riders, even intermediate ones, are very, very often nervous at shows and feel like they’ve got to do well to justify all the hard work, expense and family sacrifices. It’s an expensive hobby, and it requires a lot of time…and there’s also all those railbirds out there ready to tell them they suck, which puts extra pressure on them.

–They also may show infrequently and feel nervous that they don’t quite know how their horse will react. Additionally, a lot of people compete with a minimum of help and coaching, and are not well prepared, and know it. They’re just not very sure of how their horse will go and don’t really know what to expect.

–They often compete, or even go to clinics, feeling a bit nervous, putting pressure on themselves. It may be years and years before they learn to relax at competitions - some people NEVER do. They still want to go - because they want to improve, they want to see if they can do better.

–People often struggle with being drawn to dressage because they’re perfectionists, they want a judge because they ARE perfectionists, and then they wind up struggling to become comfortable with competing.

–There is basically nothing that really prepares a person to compete in dressage.

–It’s just not like other sports, it requires a very finely tuned level of ‘arousal’ (excitement, alertness) balanced with complete concentration, but it also requires relaxation. Even at the lowest levels. That’s a very difficult mindset to reach, and people struggle with it.

–Visibly. So? It obviously is important to them, and they want to do it.

I’m just as guilty (see aforesaid statement about dressage shows not being fun) and I really think that a lot of the problem is trying not to “stand out”. You toe the line because you don’t want to be frowned upon. That means behaving in a certain fashion, dressing a certain way, etc.

– I think that’s an oversimplification, and I don’t think most people are trying to fly THAT far under the radar. You’re also watching people learn to compete, and learn to get into that frame of mind, and it takes a lot of effort and a long time to do that. It takes many shows. Many. And a lot of mistakes for most people.

–People who have evented or show jumped seem to have the easiest time adjusting their mindset. Those who have shown in group classes seem to find the individual dressage test the toughest adjustment…those who have not competed at all have the toughest time.

I don’t really understand it, because I have partied with some upper-level dressage riders and they can party HARD, but even they say that shows are serious stuff.

–They are right. It really is not possible to treat this like other sports. You seem to really be struggling with that, you want this to be something it is never going to be. I advise you to just learn a little bit more about states of mind for specific sports, study sports psychology, and observe who is successful and who isn’t, and what works and what doesn’t.

My experience is with SJ and eventing, where a show is a p-a-r-t-y! Even the big shows are a huge laugh, which is why I’m so happy to be an official at them. I actually can have a good time marshalling at the warmup arena.

–Good lord. Those shows may be a ‘huge laugh’ to you, but I think the competitors are still interested in the outcome. Sometimes there’s a bit of joking that goes on, there are traditions like that in riding, but I don’t think the issues are really entirely different.

–I don’t find ‘every show is a party’ in eventing OR show jumping. That’s an opinion you’ve decided to have, and there is plenty of evidence against it as well if you want to support the opposite opinion.

–I will say, though, that of the people doing all 3, most show jumpers, eventers, are more experienced (except at the mini horse trials, etc) than the average dressage competitor, and more likely to have already become more comfortable with competing.

I refuse to work at dressage shows. I’ve done it three times and was bored to tears.

– Well I am glad you don’t work dressage shows then, you’d be miserable to be around, and having a crabby, complaining official working at a show is not exactly going to spread around the gemutlekheit (sp?).

–There’s nothing cooler than a cheerful, encouraging official or volunteer at a show. They just do so much for people, and help people to relax and enjoy themselves.

– I enjoy dressage shows quite a bit, actually. It’s a quieter atmosphere since the horses need to be looser and more focused, but other than that, I don’t really find dressage shows or dressage people to be boring or ‘not fun’ at all. Not in the least.

–There’s the occasional person whose nerves get the better of them…that doesn’t mean everyone is like that.

[Donella]

TOTALLY agree with you SLC:yes:

[freestyle2music]

gemutlekheit (sp?).

Gemütlichkeit aka coziness aka gezelligheid

Happy NewYear

Theo

[Bravestrom]

[QUOTE=FillySire;3768532]
Katie is a celebrity who has entered the horse arena and is going to be, like it or not, a role model for our equestrian daughters. What our daughters see in Katie is going to be up to her. Will they see the famous star, with dyed hair, huge breast implants, anorexic figure, exaggerated solarium tanned skin, less-clothing-more-skin outfits and trivial behavior? Or, will they see a horse lover and dressage star who creates a productive impulse in our daughters to become more and more ambitious, to gain a desperate urge to succeed? I hope for the later. fiona, you obviously think all of this is all a joke. As a father of three young daughters, I do not. I am getting my daughters into horses to avoid the very thing that KP represents.[/QUOTE]

This explains a lot - I thought it was a mom worried about her daughters - now that I know it is a dad that puts a whole different spin on things.

Sounds to me like you are trying to control what they do and think - to bad for the girls that you can’t just teach them to think for themselves and make them strong individuals and that you are so worried about KP making your daughters want to dress that way - and probably if they did want to emulate KP it will be out of spite and if they don’t emulate her it will be inspite of you.

Have at it.

[Wingman]

[QUOTE=slc2;3768828]
Uh, Slc, I think you’re misreading my post!

–Why do you think my post is directed at you? In fact, it is NOT directed at you. Those were general comments.

I didn’t accuse anybody of being a snob. I said that a friend of mine had asked why they didn’t look like they were having any fun. It’s not something I’d picked up on before (other than as a another reason why I hate dressage shows - they’re no bloody fun!) but it was interesting to take a step back and look at it through her eyes.

–I think it’s a little bit of hair splitting, but I think you fail to understand WHY people show.

–First of all, ask yourself - what shows that they’re not ‘having fun’? Because they want tell you to leave them alone, or they don’t smile, or they’re a little snappy?

–And you think other shows are a big party? Why? Because there’s more booze around?

–Because some people are making clever comments about other competitors, that make you laugh, or saying they will make out their last will, ha ha ha, before they go in the ring?

–Sounds like some combination of needing to focus and a little performance anxiety.

–Dressage is a little bit more like a piano recital than other sports. It takes a lot of concentration to do well. And people DO get nervous.

–Ask yourself - exactly how would you change it, what kind of fun do you want it to be?

–Beginner riders being scared to death by people screaming and yelling? People being thrown off their game because they can’t focus on their job at hand? Dressage is not like a lot of other passtimes…it does actually take some concentration and focus. It’s hard work.

–Too, beginner riders, even intermediate ones, are very, very often nervous at shows and feel like they’ve got to do well to justify all the hard work, expense and family sacrifices. It’s an expensive hobby, and it requires a lot of time…and there’s also all those railbirds out there ready to tell them they suck, which puts extra pressure on them.

–They also may show infrequently and feel nervous that they don’t quite know how their horse will react. Additionally, a lot of people compete with a minimum of help and coaching, and are not well prepared, and know it. They’re just not very sure of how their horse will go and don’t really know what to expect.

–They often compete, or even go to clinics, feeling a bit nervous, putting pressure on themselves. It may be years and years before they learn to relax at competitions - some people NEVER do. They still want to go - because they want to improve, they want to see if they can do better.

–People often struggle with being drawn to dressage because they’re perfectionists, they want a judge because they ARE perfectionists, and then they wind up struggling to become comfortable with competing.

–There is basically nothing that really prepares a person to compete in dressage.

–It’s just not like other sports, it requires a very finely tuned level of ‘arousal’ (excitement, alertness) balanced with complete concentration, but it also requires relaxation. Even at the lowest levels. That’s a very difficult mindset to reach, and people struggle with it.

–Visibly. So? It obviously is important to them, and they want to do it.

I’m just as guilty (see aforesaid statement about dressage shows not being fun) and I really think that a lot of the problem is trying not to “stand out”. You toe the line because you don’t want to be frowned upon. That means behaving in a certain fashion, dressing a certain way, etc.

– I think that’s an oversimplification, and I don’t think most people are trying to fly THAT far under the radar. You’re also watching people learn to compete, and learn to get into that frame of mind, and it takes a lot of effort and a long time to do that. It takes many shows. Many. And a lot of mistakes for most people.

–People who have evented or show jumped seem to have the easiest time adjusting their mindset. Those who have shown in group classes seem to find the individual dressage test the toughest adjustment…those who have not competed at all have the toughest time.

I don’t really understand it, because I have partied with some upper-level dressage riders and they can party HARD, but even they say that shows are serious stuff.

–They are right. It really is not possible to treat this like other sports. You seem to really be struggling with that, you want this to be something it is never going to be. I advise you to just learn a little bit more about states of mind for specific sports, study sports psychology, and observe who is successful and who isn’t, and what works and what doesn’t.

My experience is with SJ and eventing, where a show is a p-a-r-t-y! Even the big shows are a huge laugh, which is why I’m so happy to be an official at them. I actually can have a good time marshalling at the warmup arena.

–Good lord. Those shows may be a ‘huge laugh’ to you, but I think the competitors are still interested in the outcome. Sometimes there’s a bit of joking that goes on, there are traditions like that in riding, but I don’t think the issues are really entirely different.

–I don’t find ‘every show is a party’ in eventing OR show jumping. That’s an opinion you’ve decided to have, and there is plenty of evidence against it as well if you want to support the opposite opinion.

–I will say, though, that of the people doing all 3, most show jumpers, eventers, are more experienced (except at the mini horse trials, etc) than the average dressage competitor, and more likely to have already become more comfortable with competing.

I refuse to work at dressage shows. I’ve done it three times and was bored to tears.

– Well I am glad you don’t work dressage shows then, you’d be miserable to be around, and having a crabby, complaining official working at a show is not exactly going to spread around the gemutlekheit (sp?).

–There’s nothing cooler than a cheerful, encouraging official or volunteer at a show. They just do so much for people, and help people to relax and enjoy themselves.

– I enjoy dressage shows quite a bit, actually. It’s a quieter atmosphere since the horses need to be looser and more focused, but other than that, I don’t really find dressage shows or dressage people to be boring or ‘not fun’ at all. Not in the least.

–There’s the occasional person whose nerves get the better of them…that doesn’t mean everyone is like that.[/QUOTE]

Does any part of this say you agree or disagree with the OP showing at this level?

[Jenn2674]

[QUOTE=FancyFree;3767791]
Oh please.

What actually is SLC’s valid point? Her opinion is that people who find snobbery in dressage are simply insecure or jealous. As you wrote, you found snobs in hunters and western. Were you jealous? Of course not. That’s your experience. The woman I referred to in my previous post would not have any reason to be jealous of anyone. It’s her honest experience with dressage. She had no agenda. We were just chatting.[/QUOTE]

Your friend wasn’t jealous as far as you know, what SLC’s point was there are a lot of different reasons why some people seem to think that there is more snobbism in dressage than other disciplines. One of those reasons was insecurity and jealousy (and I totally buy that) but she certainly never implied that all people that think dressage is snobbish are jealous, you need to read more carefully and not just cling onto once sentence. the whole point was that there is no more snobbery in dressage than any other discipline. Just because my idea of a good time is “quieter”, doesn’t mean I’m not having fun.

[FancyFree]

[QUOTE=Jenn2674;3769590]
Your friend wasn’t jealous as far as you know, what SLC’s point was there are a lot of different reasons why some people seem to think that there is more snobbism in dressage than other disciplines. One of those reasons was insecurity and jealousy (and I totally buy that) but she certainly never implied that all people that think dressage is snobbish are jealous, you need to read more carefully and not just cling onto once sentence. the whole point was that there is no more snobbery in dressage than any other discipline. Just because my idea of a good time is “quieter”, doesn’t mean I’m not having fun.[/QUOTE]

haha you’re fast with that edit. But I saw it! :lol:

Oh my!

The original post read MY whole point…

:lol:

[FancyFree]

Maybe you should go back and read her post. This what she wrote:

I think this is a reaction against:

People’s own insecurities.

Local dressage queens who are imagined to be uppity and not friendly to new comers.

People who buy expensive horses and make others jealous.

I’m not “clinging” to one sentence. She didn’t offer any other reasons. I’m just reading what she wrote. All I’m getting is people who find dressage snobbish are insecure, resentful and jealous. Please illuminate me as to where she wrote anything different?

[Jenn2674]

@slc2;3768770

I[/I] I’ve seen a lot of very nice people called snobs because they just weren’t loud and gushy. A lot of fairly quiet, thoughtful people are drawn to dressage. They don’t all have used car salesman personalities.

Some people look AWFUL hard to find a way in which someone else is putting them down. I think people can be WAY too defensive and look way, way too hard for a way to put someone down when they feel unsure of themselves. People can be hypersensitive and way overinterpret another person’s behavior.

I think that sums it up, at least in my opinion. I’ve been accused of being a snob (not horse related - in school or real life) because I’m not ms talkative. I am very friendly ocne I get to know you but I am shy not one of those people that just talk and talk. I would also never be considered the “life” of the party so I am sure I would be considered “boring” by some. I also think people feel like if they like one thing then they have to trash the other. Sort of like some people that are die hard Led Zepplin fans, have to trash the Stones (or vice versa). Or, like some people that love QHs trash Arabs (or vice versa) or if they live in one neighborhood they have to trash another, etc. Happens to the extreme with sports teams and presidential candidates! Can’t just like one more than the other, some people have to hate the other side.

I don’ think everyone is like that. I am sure there are a few real snobs in dressage, I just don’t think dressage is any snobbish than anything else.

[FancyFree]

I guess you’re not going to answer my post.

No surprise. Backpedal, backpedal.

[Jenn2674]

@slc2;3768770

I don’t actually think snobbism is non existent. Of course it exists. But I think people read far, far too much into it. Anyone who does anything different from how they do is a ‘snob’.

What I think is that people who are constantly complaining and miserable because they assume that everything some group of people do is due to ‘snobbism’, that is a problem they are making, not a problem with other people.

First off, She did go back and clarify and while I realize at the time she didn’t exactly say so I can realize that when people make a statement, they don’t generally mean 100% of the people 100% of the time.

I mean if I have a bad day and say that people are asswipes, I don’t literally mean that every single person on earth is!

[FancyFree]

Whatever. Jealousy is a common theme with SLC.

But thanks for posting! It was enlightening. :winkgrin:

[fiona]

Quote:
Or
My new years resolution is going to be spend at least 8 hours a day being a terrible role model for other peoples children…gosh, it’s going to be fun!

Katie is a celebrity who has entered the horse arena and is going to be, like it or not, a role model for our equestrian daughters. What our daughters see in Katie is going to be up to her. Will they see the famous star, with dyed hair, huge breast implants, anorexic figure, exaggerated solarium tanned skin, less-clothing-more-skin outfits and trivial behavior? Or, will they see a horse lover and dressage star who creates a productive impulse in our daughters to become more and more ambitious, to gain a desperate urge to succeed? I hope for the later. fiona, you obviously think all of this is all a joke. As a father of three young daughters, I do not. I am getting my daughters into horses to avoid the very thing that KP represents.

Actually my comment was a joke!!!
Since you didn’t get that i will explain that it was a joke made in reference to parents who lay the responsibilty for their own children at someone else’s door.

KP is a celebrity and is financing her riding ambitions with the proceeds of selling herself as a product. Fathers, Sons, Brothers, Husbands in hordes BUY that product.Why does the stigma belong to her not them? The ONLY thing KP represents is the hypocricy of modern marketing and morality.

Meanwhile it is YOUR responsibilty as parent to bring up YOUR children, educate them, give them a strong sense of self worth, confidence, independance and all the other life skills they need. Presumably you won’t be doing such a lousy job that the only possible aspirational figure your children will choose are a Glamour model, and if you are, the existence of KP is frankly going to be the least of your problems.

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=fiona;3770969]
Actually my comment was a joke!!!
Since you didn’t get that i will explain that it was a joke made in reference to parents who lay the responsibilty for their own children at someone else’s door.

KP is a celebrity and is financing her riding ambitions with the proceeds of selling herself as a product. Fathers, Sons, Brothers, Husbands in hordes BUY that product.Why does the stigma belong to her not them? The ONLY thing KP represents is the hypocricy of modern marketing and morality.

Meanwhile it is YOUR responsibilty as parent to bring up YOUR children, educate them, give them a strong sense of self worth, confidence, independance and all the other life skills they need. Presumably you won’t be doing such a lousy job that the only possible aspirational figure your children will choose are a Glamour model, and if you are, the existence of KP is frankly going to be the least of your problems.[/QUOTE]

fiona well said- echo you 10000% times and more

[slc2]

“aspirational”

This, evidently is another COHism, and does not mean, ‘pertaining to inhaling’.

:lol:

I do not believe that anyone can make decisions for another person, about what a parent should like or not like in the media, or how they should handle the issue with their kids, or what personal beliefs they should have. Some people will be more conservative, others more relaxed about it. The decision they make is right for them and fits their beliefs and values, you folks here can ridicule more conservative people if you want to, but it really looks a tad disingenuous.

There is nothing like having kids for making a person feel protective. Not everyone sees media booby shakers in the same benign light as some here.

But this whole discussion has really made me think - the whole subject of how well the woman rides, of just looking at a video of her and comparing her to the other riders aiming at 2012 and 2016, and being able to see the differences, and how likely she is to reach the Olympics, is highly, highly colored and distorted by who she is, in fact, it’s completely subsumed, by people’s romantic ideas about her as some sort of salt of the earth crusader for personal freedom that is going to fix up what they think is wrong with dressage because some snooty gal snubbed them at the local show.

THAT is the power of the media, that people can stay focused on that, and forget that this is a young woman with small children who puts videos of herself finding new ways to use a cell phone on youtube. I daresay if that same snooty gal that snubbed them at the local show put such a video on youtube, it would be the horror and scandal of the local club and tack shop clatches for the next 50 years and everyone would be talking about how horrible that is for those small children.

[Kaeleer]

@slc2;3768828

Uh, Slc, I think you’re misreading my post!

–Why do you think my post is directed at you? In fact, it is NOT directed at you. Those were general comments.

Then I apologise, but as this post is directed at me, I’ll take a stab at it.

-I think it’s a little bit of hair splitting, but I think you fail to understand WHY people show.

I think there are a myriad of reasons why people show, but I’ve always believed that most people START showing because it’s fun. Riding, or 95% of the population, is a recreational sport, not a career, and recreation should, IMO, be fun. Yes, there is challenge involved, and competition, but if it’s not fun, what is the point?

–First of all, ask yourself - what shows that they’re not ‘having fun’? Because they want tell you to leave them alone, or they don’t smile, or they’re a little snappy?

I have no idea if they’re snappy as I don’t approach people at shows when they’re getting ready for a test. At the time this conversation took place, we were seated on the grandstand, watching a test. When the lack of fun was pointed out to me, I looked around and saw tense faces, few smiles, and a general air of “Oh my god, this is so terribly serious.”

I understand nerves. I understand wanting to do well. I don’t understand when nerves and ambition get in the way of having a good time, life is too short.

I like KP because she generally looks as if she’s having a blast.

–And you think other shows are a big party? Why? Because there’s more booze around?

That’s rather a leap, Slick. I don’t know about you, but I don’t need booze to have a good time. Is that a prerequisite in your world?

–Because some people are making clever comments about other competitors, that make you laugh, or saying they will make out their last will, ha ha ha, before they go in the ring?

Jesus, Slick. Is that your experience with showjumping and eventing? My word!

–Sounds like some combination of needing to focus and a little performance anxiety.

What you describe sounds like a show I’ve never been to.

–Dressage is a little bit more like a piano recital than other sports. It takes a lot of concentration to do well. And people DO get nervous.

All of which I get, but most people play music because they enjoy it.

–Beginner riders being scared to death by people screaming and yelling? People being thrown off their game because they can’t focus on their job at hand? Dressage is not like a lot of other passtimes…it does actually take some concentration and focus. It’s hard work.

Sweetheart, are you suggesting that jumping large fences, or solid ones at speed DOES NOT require focus? And might I remind you that my horses event, and that a dressage test is an integral part of eventing. Are you suggesting that dressage outside of eventing requires MORE focus?

–Too, beginner riders, even intermediate ones, are very, very often nervous at shows and feel like they’ve got to do well to justify all the hard work, expense and family sacrifices. It’s an expensive hobby, and it requires a lot of time…and there’s also all those railbirds out there ready to tell them they suck, which puts extra pressure on them.

–They also may show infrequently and feel nervous that they don’t quite know how their horse will react. Additionally, a lot of people compete with a minimum of help and coaching, and are not well prepared, and know it. They’re just not very sure of how their horse will go and don’t really know what to expect.

–They often compete, or even go to clinics, feeling a bit nervous, putting pressure on themselves. It may be years and years before they learn to relax at competitions - some people NEVER do. They still want to go - because they want to improve, they want to see if they can do better.

And all of this is exclusive to dressage how?

–People often struggle with being drawn to dressage because they’re perfectionists, they want a judge because they ARE perfectionists, and then they wind up struggling to become comfortable with competing.

And here we have the gist of it : it stops being fun because people lose sight of what is is we’re doing. We’re engaging in a sport with an animal. It’s never going to be perfect. But if it’s not fun to do, why bother to do it?

Believe it or not, I do understand what you’re describing, and it’s why I stopped doing dressage. So much pressure. So much ‘don’t go to a show unless you’re fully prepared’. Gah! I do this for FUN.

[quote–It’s just not like other sports, it requires a very finely tuned level of ‘arousal’ (excitement, alertness) balanced with complete concentration, but it also requires relaxation. Even at the lowest levels. That’s a very difficult mindset to reach, and people struggle with it.
[/quote]

How do you KNOW? My husband competes at dressage. He rarely schools, hates it. He does it because he events. I school the horses, he competes them. He goes to shows smiling, warms up calmly, goes in and generally does quite well.

You can’t speak for all people, Slick, no matter how much you would like to.

–People who have evented or show jumped seem to have the easiest time adjusting their mindset. Those who have shown in group classes seem to find the individual dressage test the toughest adjustment…those who have not competed at all have the toughest time.

Ah, I’m beginning to understand why you struggle so much, then.

[edit]

–Good lord. Those shows may be a ‘huge laugh’ to you, but I think the competitors are still interested in the outcome. Sometimes there’s a bit of joking that goes on, there are traditions like that in riding, but I don’t think the issues are really entirely different.

Of course the outcome is important, who said it wasn’t? I don’t compete unless I’m aiming to win. That doesn’t stop it being enjoyable.

– Well I am glad you don’t work dressage shows then, you’d be miserable to be around, and having a crabby, complaining official working at a show is not exactly going to spread around the gemutlekheit (sp?).

Gee, I’m glad you have so many officials where you are, that you can afford to turn them away?

– I enjoy dressage shows quite a bit, actually. It’s a quieter atmosphere since the horses need to be looser and more focused, but other than that, I don’t really find dressage shows or dressage people to be boring or ‘not fun’ at all. Not in the least.

But, dear, you don’t compete, so how the hell would you know?

Crumbs, but you use many words!

[slc2]

I think the tactic of exaggerating and distorting what I say and then ridiculing the distortions and exaggerations, which are all things that I never said, wouldn’t even suggest are remotely true, and which I don’t believe are true, probably doesn’t lead to too much interchange of ideas. Nor does the ‘fu** off’.

And instead of doing what I should do, which is not respond to such rudeness, here are some thoughts. I am, after all, waiting for the laundry to finish.

Sports psychology DOES have a lot to say about this, and you may, if you are open minded, read it.

I didn’t say dressage requires focus and no other riding sport does. What I believe is that the nature and type of focus required is different, and I think people struggle with that. If I didn’t say ‘different’ enough times, mea culpa. Sports research suggests EACH sport is different and requires a somewhat different focus and type of mindset.

That they are not ‘having fun’, which is proven by their ‘tense, unsmiling’ faces…this again goes back to a value judgment placed on other people, based on observing an outward appearance, you are assuming something about their inner world. You are, in fact, trying to judge and place value on a person’s inner world while you simply watch them ride from a distance.

In fact, quite a few people get a frown on their face just because they are trying to focus on a lot of details. They would do that if they were at the office, or changing a tire, or looking at a menu at MacDonald’s. It may not have a thing to do with whether they are ‘enjoying’ it or not or whether it’s ‘fun’ to them.

But to be perfectly honest, I haven’t found that sportsmen/women in ANY sports are uniformly cheerful and funny, before, during or right after competitions.

Too, I am not sure why dressage has to be such a ‘hoot’ or be so much ‘fun’. Do you want people to burst into song after they complete the 10 meter circle at X? High five their horse after their free walk on the diagonal? Shout out, ‘I know you were with me then, Lord!’ after the transition?

They do want to do dressage, they do want to compete, but perhaps not because it really actually is a laugh a minute, more because they want to improve at it. It’s a different kind of mindset.

The odd thing about your argument is that I don’t really recall a lot of eventers or show jumpers having a big happy smile on their face when they’re trying to focus on a problem either. Very occasionally, I see an exultant or relieved look on a rider’s face after they clear an obstacle, but most of the time, it’s very brief or their expression changes not at all, and it’s on to the next problem.

In all the years I’ve photographed eventers and show jumpers and attended those shows, I can’t for the life of me think of any PROOF that they smile a great deal more than dressage riders while they are riding. That’s why I said before, ‘This is something you have decided you want to believe’ If you want to be negative about dressage shows, no one is going to be able to convince you of anything else.

As far as the remarks about not competing, you don’t compete either, so same could be said for you. It actually seems the real discussion is ‘Either you hate dressage shows as much as I do, or you’re a jerk’, which just lacks a certain amount of necessary post-holiday cheer.

[Kaeleer]

Slick, Slick, Slick…you really need to get a life. I didn’t say that people weren’t having fun, I said that a FRIEND of mine thought they weren’t, and that, after looking around, I agreed with her perception. I also said that my experiences of SJ / Eventing and dressage are different.

Why is it so important to you?

I think KP adds some much-needed levity to a sport which is often lacking in it. That’s my opinion, it doesn’t make it so.

That is what we’re discussing here, isn’t it? Opinions on KP? And what she might bring to the dressage world? Some people believe she’s a poor role model. That’s their opinion.

And, dear, just where did you read that I don’t compete?