Kentucky Derby 2015

[Angelico]

[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;8133468]
It would appear that what little whip rules there are in the US are just not enforced. The rules of the KYHRC says the jockey is supposed to “give the horse time to respond”. By my count, Espinosa hit the horse 28 times from the turn to the line… here’s the replay, see for yourself… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKGkgyFTK8I
That is an unmerciful whipping. There was not even a whisper from the stewards about the whipping the horse got.
He would be stood down (banned) for weeks, and would receive a sizeable fine if he did that in any other racing jurisdiction in the world.

Look at the replay again and contrast his ride with that of Gary Stevens on Firing Line. Stevens is a horseman.[/QUOTE]

Every horse is different, a race ride needed for one horse is hardly comparable to another.

You can’t tell on TV how hard a rider used the whip or if it even came down on the horse in many cases. Not every time you see the whip moved does it necessarily end up touching the horse. I often do that in the mornings when trying to get a horse to straighten up or move out a little, I’ll simply throw my hand back a few times and that usually gets plenty of response.

[findeight]

[QUOTE=rcloisonne;8133459]
I read somewhere he’s a rig? Would that effect his value?

RC - just a peanut gallery member[/QUOTE]

There was a ridgeling in the race, Far Right or somebody else way outside. Have not heard that term in a very very very long time, something to do with retained testicles IIRC. Believe AP is quite whole.

Wouldn’t think it would bother a horse on the track but fertility might be in question and that would certainly effect value as a breeding stud.

[Sunflower]

Watching the reply-- slowed down-- even then it all goes so fast. There is a point in the call where Ocho Ocho Ocho is in 8th place! For some reason, that tickled me.

Frosted had a very impressive run from far back and was a strong finisher, did not look too tired.

[dani0303]

[QUOTE=Sparrowette;8133347]
Replace Weir with Carson Kressley. At least Kressley knows horses! He owns mainly ASBs, but doesn’t he have a TB or 2 in training?[/QUOTE]

Weir showed hunters as a kid. According to google this is a picture of him at Devon
http://www.counter-canterculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Johnny-Weir-Devon.jpg

[Anne_FS]

He’s not there because he rode, he & Lipinski are there to be over-the-top “fashion” reporters and because NBC is hoping the non-horse people who think they’re fabulous will stay tuned to the Derby coverage. I still think they should put them on golf coverage. They could both dress up in various caricatures of golf pants and have a blast.

[PeteyPie]

[QUOTE=findeight;8133535]
There was a ridgeling in the race, Far Right or somebody else way outside. Have not heard that term in a very very very long time, something to do with retained testicles IIRC. Believe AP is quite whole.

Wouldn’t think it would bother a horse on the track but fertility might be in question and that would certainly effect value as a breeding stud.[/QUOTE]

It’s really not that uncommon. A.P. Indy was a ridgling.

Interesting article about that:
http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/somethings-missing-here-explaining-ridglings/

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=Sparrowette;8133347]
Replace Weir with Carson Kressley. At least Kressley knows horses! He owns mainly ASBs, but doesn’t he have a TB or 2 in training?[/QUOTE]

I was going to say, like SportArab says, Johnny showed ponies at Devon. As for how he dresses, that’s Johnny, NBC knows exactly what they’re getting (which made him saying that the guy in a leopard-print suit was too much a REAL put-down–If Johnny Weir thinks you went overboard…) On the one hand, I don’t know they can do much better, given they tend to fold even trying to cover ice dance if they don’t have Tanith Belbin there to hold their hands and explain it. On the other hand, if you’re an expert but suck at broadcasting, like Mary Murphy and Tony Meredith’s abysmal hosting of America’s Ballroom Challenge (I was seriously like “Bring in Tara and Johnny, they won’t know what they’re watching but at least they won’t sound like they’re reading cue cards!”) And even though I knew he had no shot I loved their visit with War Story. Indifferent horse until the peppermints come out! Peppermints? You have mints? New best friend!

I really thought Firing Line had it!

[SportArab]

I actually bet Firing Line to win because I thought he’d either win or come in second and the online betting site I use offered to refund the bet if you placed a win bet on a horse that came in second to the favorite. So no money lost at least.

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=Madeline;8132943]
I did just dash this off to NBC.

“I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t sent Johnny Weir and Tara Lipinski to cover the Masters Golf or Wimbledon. How dare you insult the horse racing game by sending them to the Derby?”[/QUOTE]

They were awful, An unintelligent choice.

[merrygoround]

Any one else wondering what this will do for Big Brown’s popularity. I will be interested to see what comes of his breeding to Lisa’s Booby Trap. That mare is all heart.

[beaujolais]

"Originally Posted by Madeline

I did just dash this off to NBC.

“I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t sent Johnny Weir and Tara Lipinski to cover the Masters Golf or Wimbledon. How dare you insult the horse racing game by sending them to the Derby?”

Thank you for that!!! It was completely silly (of NBC).

[Lord_Helpus]

I have come across several other sites where the comments are 100% positive to this pair. The Lexington, Ky newspaper is one such site. I guess it all depends on why you are watching racing on TV in the first place.

[vineyridge]

A quote from the NYTimes on the Derby, American Pharoah and the Preakness/Triple Crown.

There is no doubt American Pharoah is talented, but don’t bronze him yet.

He was all out to beat Firing Line by a length on Saturday after getting a perfect trip in what was not a very fast time: 2 minutes 3.02 seconds. The colt also was used hard as his jockey, Victor Espinoza, went to his whip incessantly — 30 times by one count — in the stretch.
.

They noticed the heavy use of the whip. I wonder if other racing jurisdictions in the US would be okay with what Espinoza did.

[dontskipthecafe]

We actually ended up calling my horse’s race trainer and asking him for his Derby picks, because he’s an excellent handicapper (the only bets I’ve seen him lose were on his own horses). He liked AP and Firing Line. Friend won about $79 on a $4 bet.

[Dispatcher]

[QUOTE=dani0303;8133608]
Weir showed hunters as a kid. According to google this is a picture of him at Devon
http://www.counter-canterculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Johnny-Weir-Devon.jpg[/QUOTE]

Wait–that can’t be Devon. There is no grass ring, nor is there any grass outside of the 2 rings!

[Kim]

I absolutely cannot stand the Tara-Johnny segments. I found their antics insulting to the deep history of the Derby.

Then again, I did not care for Lipinski’s persona when she was a skater.

[GoneAway]

I would be 100% in favor of Carson Kressley being the fashion reporter for the Derby.

I had Dortmund to win, but figured that wouldn’t happen when he went to the lead and stayed there. I don’t know anything about horse racing so I won’t pretend it was an educated pick. Had a great day in spite of that though, spent the day at Gold Cup and then trekked back home to have a Derby party with a couple of friends. Great race.

[Logical]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8134062]
They noticed the heavy use of the whip. I wonder if other racing jurisdictions in the US would be okay with what Espinoza did.[/QUOTE]

I had DVR’d the race so that my daughter could watch it when she got back Sunday night. Aware that some people were claiming heavy whipping, I watched closely. Most of the swings did NOT make contact with AP. When the camera view changed and the horses were running straight toward the camera Espinoza was doing this: swing, swing, tap, swing, swing, tap, and you get the picture. Now knowing this, I can see the difference in the swings where the camera is not head on (further back in the stretch run) and it is almost the same pattern. When he swings back to actually tap AP the arc of his swing is higher and sharper. I don’t think AP was actually touched by the whip 30 times and from what I saw, was probably only 10-15 times from at the top of the second turn through the stretch.

On to the Preakness…

[SportArab]

Any word on what the actual track conditions were. There were some reports that it was deep. Cuppy?

[Calamber]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8134062]
A quote from the NYTimes on the Derby, American Pharoah and the Preakness/Triple Crown.

.

They noticed the heavy use of the whip. I wonder if other racing jurisdictions in the US would be okay with what Espinoza did.[/QUOTE]

I have just watched the replay, did not watch the race, but I do not see the horse being whipped. What I saw was him being aggressively “fanned” by the whip, I will look for another angle but that is all I could see. He was all out so not too sure he is going to be successful in the following races.

Okay, maybe some will not like this but here goes.

http://www.theonion.com/video/jockey-liam-hollins-the-favorite-to-brutally-whip--17301