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KK Ultra Aurigan Bits: thin, thick, heavy, light..

Dressage
#1

(also posted in “Horse Care.”

My horse has gone for years with a thinnish (14mm?) KK Ultra Aurigan bit. Recently, the lady I have taken lessons from mentioned that since my horse is so light and responsive, maybe a thicker bit would be better for him. I found the exact bit we use now in the 18 mm size on ebay and bought it. It is a piece of art, as are all their bits. It is also much heavier than the thinner one, BTW. I’ve ridden in it a few times, my horse seems to go just fine in it. Today on the trail though, trying to keep my horse down to a collected canter, I realized that this thicker version might be fine for arena work, side reins, etc, but it looks like it just isn’t enough bit for those super forward moments when I need to keep the exuberance in open spaces somewhat controlled. Does anyone else use the different versions of the same bit for different activities, or does anyone have any similar experiences with these KK’s? Also, the weight of the thicker has me thinking that one of the reasons my horse is so light is because his other KK was nice and light. Though he is reaching nicely and responding well with this thicker one, so far that almost telepathic communication I felt with the other one hasn’t been met with the thick one, but the jury is still out…

#2

The thinner bit is more severe. The thicker is softer in the mouth. So nothing so much to do with telepathy. He would reach into the bit better with the thicker/softer one, esp if you do not have a well established independant seat.

I don’t know where you are in your training and if he will respond to half halts on the trail. I don’t know if he does respond adequately but it just takes more from you because he is used to more pressure with the thinner-more-severe bit. Or – is he just blowing you off?

I would go with your trainer’s advice: she knows you, the horse, and the relationship/communication you have.

#3

We are by no means advanced but with the 14mm he will definitely respond to half-halts on the trail, often just with seat/leg aids. With the 18mm, same thing except when he gets a head of steam on, in which case I think he might be blowing me off. We board on a 2800 acre ranch so our trailrides have lots of opportunity for long open stretches where we like to practice lead changes, zig-zags, and a very occasional good gallop. One of my ?'s with the thicker bit is that since it is quite heavy, it seems possible that though yes, of course, thicker is gentler and thinner is quite potentially not, could it also be possible that thick AND heavy eliminates the possibility of subtler rein aids because the bit rests so heavily on the tongue? Also, I know there are lots of other factors to include such as palate size, teeth, tongue thickness. Mostly I’m just wondering if anyone else has gone through learning curves with two or more versions of the same bits.

#4

I went from a thinner KK to a thicker one, my horse was off the track and therefore his mouth wasn’t the softest. As he progressed in his training and his mouth also had a chance to get softer, he went from: kimberwick, thin KK, thick KK, and then double bridle with the same thick KK for the snaffle.

It depends on your independant seat and hands more the then weight of these two particular bits in his mouth. I would go with what your trainer recommends, she knows you both.

#5

You are not alone.

I heard Anky Van Grunsven say at a clinic that she uses draw reins when she hacks out! :lol:

The hotter, more athletic and fit your horse is, the harder it may be to keep his attention when he is outside of the ring. I have used a thicker and thinner KK bit depending on what I am doing. I have known others who have switched to their double bridle for hacking out, particularly with a naughty horse. Unless you are on perfectly even terrain, you need to let the horse have more freedom to balance on the trail, particularly at faster gaits, and this can lead to trouble when the horse is spooky or has a mind of his own. It is even more difficult when trail riding in company because of the herd instinct.

I see a benefit of trail riding the dressage horse (more than just going for a walk or riding dressage on the trail.) Some others think that it makes the horse less “sharp” to the aids or confuses him when you are riding differently on the trail. If you do really trail ride, then it makes sense to use different equipment because you are riding differently.

#6

Thanks, Eclectic, for that perspective!

Yep, though I’ve only had the thicker bit a few weeks, I’m already seeing the possibility of using the thicker one in the arena and the thinner on the trail, or, if we work through this transition, keeping the thinner one for springtime or something. FYI, my horse is an Arab and we train dressage mostly for the health of it. He comes from an endurance background, so is no stranger to wide open spaces and forward on the trail. He is, though, usually dependably responsive and has never run away with me or tried to get a free head to run-at least so far!

#7

Thinner is not necessarily more severe.
Thicker is not necessarily kinder.

A big fat tongue with a low palate will make a horse miserable in a big fat “kind” bit.

If a horse backs off his forehand/rushing with a slightly thinner bit with less hand, is that worse than having a “kinder” fatter bit that you have to pull on more?

Likewise, not all horses like a double jointed bit for various reasons, including too much play. The “harsher” mullen mouth, or even a low port, gives horses a bit more room for their tongue, which they like a LOT.

#8

We are comparing two KKs specifically, not discussing all thick or thin bits, and the middle joint in the KK leaves room for the tongue. It is not the nutcacker effect some snaffles have: http://equestrian.doversaddlery.com/search?w=kk&x=8&y=12

[quote=JB;3394219] If a horse backs off his forehand/rushing with a slightly thinner bit with less hand, is that worse than having a “kinder” fatter bit that you have to pull on more?
[/quote]

Agreed 100%. Independant seat, ability to Half Halt, has a lot to do with deciding on a correct choice.

#9

Yes, thanks for making that clear SM- Just another FYI, I just weighed both bits:
the 14 weighs in at 9.5 oz
the 18 weighs in at 13.5 oz.
Pretty significant difference! Back to my “telepathic” remark-it makes sense to me that one can send subtler signals to the horse with a lighter bit IF the horse is listening and has a soft mouth and IF the rider has decent hands. My horse mostly is in a “simon says” mode, really listening and really ready to respond.

#10

One is lighter in weight but more severe. The other is heavier but less severe, more forgiving of a dependent seat (as opposed to an independant seat).

Telepathy for me is aids given through the seat, ex., half halt. Not forcing the neck, mouth, and poll by way of the bit.

I still think your trainer would give you great advice, she has a privledged point of view seeing you both. Her suggested bit change in the dressage work seems to be working out very nicely…

I wonder if all continues to go well in the ring with the heavier bit, would she want to ideally change over bits on the trail as well? Did you ask her if that is a goal?

#11

Yes, I realize that. I was commenting on “thinner is more severe” because it’s not just about thickness vs thinness. It’s about what you have to do with the bit. All else equal, sure, thinner is more “severe”. But if a horse goes better in a thinner bit than he does in a thicker one, it is not necessarily because the thinner one is more severe - it can very well be that the thicker bit just does not give him the room in his mouth to do what he needs to do correctly in order TO accept it and carry it and be responsive to it.

I have several KK bits. I have a very similarly made JP bit, complete with an angled bean in the middle. I couldn’t figure out why it was taking my OTTB mare SO long to just accept it - after all, it’s not a nutcracker, it’s a nice size bit, not thin at all. She opened her mouth one day and I suddenly saw that the middle bean takes up a good deal of horizontal space in her mouth, which makes the 2 joints on either side of that sit on her bars. Tiny mouth girl here. She also has a low palate, so for sure a single-jointed bit would not suit her at all. As soon as it comes, she’s going in a Myler comfort snaffle with no “breaking” joint, and I have a strong feeling she will be much happier for several reasons.

That’s the only point I’m trying to make, not that I know whether the thinner bit IS more severe for the OP’s horse.

#12

My “trainer” earlier on suggested a thicker bit because my horse was so light AND because she liked working him in sidereins. She has expressed great happiness at our progress over the past 6 months. Last lesson when I mentioned that I was bidding on a thicker KK, she said that she thought that given how well he was going now, she didn’t think changing bits didn’t seem neccesary, but since I had found one, why not, especially for the side-rein work. I always like to stay open to trying new things and not getting complacent esp. with tack fit (he’s been using this bit since 1995 according to prev. owner.) Then she went off to Denmark for a month, hasn’t seen us go in the new bit. I don’t feel that the 14 has ever been a severe bit to my horse. I have noticed that he mouths it much more than his thicker bit, I think because the thinner gives him so much more room. In any case, both are beautiful bits, both have their places, and I look forward to exploring what those places might be for us both.

#13

oh, I see. Excellent point. And arabs aren’t known for their huge mouths.

If this is the case though, I wonder why the heavier is improving the dressage ring work as he is better able to reach into the bit now and take contact…

#14

by “mouths” it, do you mean salivate correctly? Or do you mean play with it trying to get comfortable?

Part of the thing with dressage is you want the horse to accept weight against the hand, so as more advanced work is done he can generate impulsion to be driven “into the bridle.” He should want to willingly take up the contact into the bit. Maybe this is what trainer was addressing with so LIGHT.

#15

Island rider,
Compare the size of the rings. A 14mm kk is usually a bradoon which has a much smaller ring. When you change the bit from thinner to thicker you will have to shorten the cheekpieces with a larger ring, or the bit will hang lower in the horse’s mouth. The difference in how low the bit sits in the mouth can also change how a horse reacts to it.
EH

#16

Yes, I had to adjust the bridle to adapt to the larger ring size. One of the things my trainer has commented on was how willingly my horse goes into the bridle, reaches for and maintains contact, etc. I think by light she meant responsive, comparing him to a sports car and I think her initial suggestion for a thicker bit was earlier on when my horse showed resistance and bracing at times to what we were doing. We worked through that and are now in a different place. As for mouthing the bit, my sense is that given the above, he is mouthing it in a good way. I should also note that my “trainer” is a local lady who starts horses for people, helps people work through issues with horses, gives basic lessons, etc. She is not a dressage only instructor, though incorporates basic dressage into her training, (prob up to 2nd level) is incredibly intuitive and kind. Not a high-powered dressage trainer by any means and doesn’t represent herself that way.

#17

JB is right on with their observations. I have used the thickest (18mm?) KKs for years with good success all my horses liked them a lot. I bought my mare several years ago and she just hated it. She was very stiff in her jaw and poll with it. She has a fairly low pallette and small mouth for her size. I switched her to a 14 mm version of the same bit - no issue.

I do like using the thicker bits particularly on horses that tend to be light. The additional weight can be very beneficial.

#18

[QUOTE=nhwr;3394810]
JB is right on with their observations. I have used the thickest (18mm?) KKs for years with good success all my horses liked them a lot. I bought my mare several years ago and she just hated it. She was very stiff in her jaw and poll with it. She has a fairly low pallette and small mouth for her size. I switched her to a 14 mm version of the same bit - no issue.

I do like using the thicker bits particularly on horses that tend to be light. The additional weight can be very beneficial.[/QUOTE]

Can you explain why the additional weight can be beneficial, given the bit fits in the horse’s mouth well?

#19

if you think of the add’l weight as stability, instead of a hindrance. I can understand why he would feel better working with that type of weight – over, let me pick a huge contrast, something like a wire.

My horse is 15h2 on a tall day. Cob halter and cob double bridle (euro idea of cob size, so that is larger than USA brand cobs). Even so, he has the 18 KK in his mouth plus a curb bit. Two separate bits – talk about weight.

The thicker seems to work well in your horse’s mouth as your OP indicated, just that you are thinking you are losing some control or telepathy. I was trying to explain why you would feel that, accepting your comment there when you wrote that your horse otherwise nicely accepts the thicker 18mm one.

This might also be a good question in the eventers forum regarding control issues: how many change bits from the dressage phase to cross country phase.

#20

if you think of the add’l weight as stability, instead of a hindrance.

My horse is 15h2 on a tall day. Cob halter and cob double bridle (euro idea of cob size, so that is larger than USA brand cobs). Even so, he has the 18 KK in his mouth plus a curb bit. Two separate bits on the little guy – talk about weight.

The thicker seems to work well in your horse’s mouth as your OP indicated, just that you are thinking you are losing some control or telepathy. I was trying to explain why you would feel that, accepting your comment there when you wrote that your horse otherwise quite nicely goes in the thicker 18mm KK.

This might also be a good question in the eventers forum regarding control issues: how many change bits from the dressage phase to cross country phase.

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