Knee buckling at a walk

[stb]

I’m currently leasing a 15 year old paint, very thoroughbred type build, a tad over at the knees conformationally. This mare also has offside stringhalt. Sounds like a wreck, I know, but she’s lovely and has the nicest work ethic ever. Lately she has had a weird sort of almost stumble at the walk. Riding instructor saw it the other day and said it looked like her offside knee buckled slightly.

It doesn’t feel like she’s going down, just feels like sort of a stomp. No lameness. No reluctance to work at all. It happened probably 2 or 3 times in a 40 minute ride though. This definitely new, and worsening a bit, I think. It has happened occasionally a few times over the past few weeks but never more than once in a ride. At first I thought it was a manifestation of her stringhalt but instructor said it was definitely a knee buckle, although tiny. Anybody seen this before?

[Willesdon]

A ‘stumbler’ perhaps, a well-known condition found in some horses. Look around the internet. The usual suggestions are foot trimming, building muscle through working on lunge and circles, neurological checks. Sometimes such things work, sometimes the horse is incurable. It can be a real risk to the rider should the horse stumble at any speed.

Curiously enough, Rev. Charles Wesley, founder of Methodism in the 19th Century, used to buy horses that stumbled, and so had a low price. He traveled all over England to preach and he would read his bible as rode his horse. Very often the horse would learn not to stumble and could then be sold at a profit.

[stb]

Well, that’s the thing, this horse is not a stumbler. This is more like her knee giving way for just a second, and it’s new behavior. This doesn’t look or feel like a typical stumble.

[Countrywood]

Does it happen on front or hind end?

Ask someone else to ride her at a walk, be patient and wait, and then observe exactly what happens. It might be her foot knuckling under, not her knee.

You might want to try adding Coco Soya oil to her diet. I did it for my gelding, who would knuckle under, and it made a huge positive difference. It might be that she is developing EPSM, an inability to convert calories from grain and feed to energy, thus the muscles have no energy in store and tie up…the coco soya oil adds the energy the muscles need that they can’t metabolize from feed.

Of course a vet check would help and it might be arthritis in a joint or any one of number of causes.

[stb]

This happens on the front end. I will watch her myself. She definitely needs to be vetted but I’m trying to narrow things down a bit. She has an absentee owner who doesn’t ride the horse at all, so I thought it would help to point her in the right direction. The oil is an interesting idea. This horse is a really hard keeper, so might be a good thing to try anyway.

[merrygoround]

I have seen it before. It seems to happen with horses that are sometimes quick to react. It is almost as though they start to make a move and then don’t. Usually at the walk.

With this horse as soon as rider and horse were in tune it stopped, then with a different rider it started again.

[Countrywood]

Usually the oil helps, but start it slowly as introduce it into feed, esp as you are leasing the horse. I use about half a cup a day but some people use more. Most horses like the taste but if she does not, mix some honey in.

Will owner pay for vet to come out? could be she is developing arthritis. But watch her and see if it is really the knee, or it is the foot, and the knee of course has to act in conjunction with foot, but if originates in hoof/foot buckling could help describe it to vet.

[stb]

This horse is very quick to react, but I don’t think it’s a miscommunication on my part. This horse Has been a bit of a rehab project (previously ridden in a very harsh bit and would get panicky when ridden) and her progress has been really amazing. She is currently relaxed and happy when I ride her, with no signs of her former anxiety. Her work right now is stellar. When the episodes happened she was relaxed and happy, moving at a walk. One of the times it happened I was riding her on the buckle, taking a break.

Thanks everyone for all ideas - I’m not arguing, just trying to clarify the issue. I am interested in all possibilities here. This horse was a mess when I started with her (panicky, hollow backed, and traumatized by having a bit in her mouth) but has turned into a lovely, sensitive ride and she obviously loves her new “job” with me. I’ve actually tried to buy her but her owner, who is afraid of her and hasn’t ridden her in years, won’t sell. It’s a bit of a frustrating situation. This horse needs to work and loves it, so I would like to keep her working steadily if at all possible. She’s not very happy as a pasture ornament.

[DukesMom]

We had a horse that did this and the vet said it was a check ligament issue. The stronger she became and the more on her hind end the less it happened. She wound do it all of the time, though.

[rabicon]

This was happening to my horse. It was eventually started happening at the trot after a couple weeks. Vets looked at first but it was occasional and couldn’t get him to do it when vet was here. When it started at the trot had vet back out and found out his saddle wasn’t fitting well and was pinching him and he was foot sore. New custom saddle that fits and special shoeing to correct his low heel, long toe with a bondo type material under a pad also to give the sole some depth and now for two years not another buckle. It was really weird and vet had never seen it before. You would be going along fine and it was like his knee would give out one stride and then would be fine until it happened again. Very strange. But the above seem to solve the problem. My vet believed that there was probably a nerve being pinched somewhere with the saddle that sent a pain down once in a while and made his knee buckle.

[rabicon]

I will say my horse is not quick to react at all. This is why I bought him. He is a steady eddy, not spooky and is never worried at all. He would do it at the most relaxed on the buckle walk at times with his head almost to the ground.

[Pipkin]

Does she do it on the lunge? Both with and without a saddle? Does she do it on different types of footing (arena/concrete/soft grass or earth?) Is it worse going downhill? Is there any heat or abnormal swelling in the joint, and do both front legs look symmetrical? Any heat in that foot? Is she otherwise sound?

There are a lot of things it could be - a field injury, out of balance feet, a pinched nerve in the neck, back or shoulder. It could be unrelated to that leg - reluctance to weight bear on a hind (or both hinds) puts more pressure on the front legs and could lead to this sort of thing. Again, that could be as simple as saddle needs reflocking.

Vet/physio/farrier/saddle fitter are all people worth talking to. Probably vet first, though remember they enjoy squeezing pennies out of owners and insurance companies, so often go down the medicinal route, when sometimes there are other options. Vets around here can advise to use physios or chiros, which means the treatment can be covered by insurance, which is good.

This started happening to our late teenage sporthorse in the trailer, and it turned out to be the beginnings of arthritis. It was only noticeable going downhill or travelling. We kept him ridden for another couple of years with the help of painkilers and joint supplements, but he’s retired now.

I personally wouldn’t be keen on riding (apart from really gentle hacks) until it’s sorted, that was the reason we retired Solo, even though he was pretty much sound and still enjoyed his work - we were worried he’d fall on one of us!!

ETA; linseed oil, or micronized linseed, is apparently a miracle feed. My tb is super picky and refuses to eat it though :rolleyes:

[stb]

There is some really good food for thought here. It shouldn’t be the saddle as saddle was purchased for this horse and fitted to her by saddle fitter in September. However, farrier was also changed in The fall and I’m wondering if changes in her feet are affecting her. Horse is barefoot. Feet before farrier change were low in the heel and long in the toe. New farrier has a much better looking foot with better angles, more heel and less toe. Maybe legs are having to adjust to new, proper angles after being off for a long time? Is that possible? Could certainly be arthritis too, the horse will be 16 next month. Lots of great ideas here. Thanks.

[Willesdon]

Sounds like you are doing a great job with her. I hope you find the solution.

[Dressagelvr]

I once knew an EPM horse who started with symptoms like this. I guess what I’m trying to say is there is no way to know other than to have a vet evaluate the horse. I would strongly recommend it.

While this horse may love to work, the question of whether the work is actually good for her remains unanswered.

[rcloisonne]

If it’s something new, and without seeing the horse or the problem, my best guess is the farrier did something to unbalance her.

[stargzng386]

If you are going to have the vet out I would capture it on video in case she doesn’t do it while the vet is there. That will at least give them an idea of where to look when examining her. You sound like an awesome leaser!

[rabicon]

Epm is a good suggestion also. Happened in my epm horse a couple times in the beginning but only a couple times and quit so I thought not much of it then he started tripping and that’s when we tested him. Forgot about that.

[Marla_100]

2 things come to mind to really check thoroughly:

Does the horse naturally have very short or upright pasterns? If you’re not sure, you can post pictures here and we can help advise you. Years ago I had a beautiful STB I bought to re-train and he had those pasterns and if the footing was uneven or downhill he would stumble as if the knees gave out. Never fell all the way but close many times. So check the conformation.

Also check the new angles of his feet and the length of heels. Sometimes new trimmers shorten the toes and leave too high heels and the hooves become very upright and boxy. This can make them have difficulty accurately placing the feet. Again you can post photos if you want opinions.

[Remington410]

My 25 year old mare does something very similar, it’s been ongoing for several years. When riding it felt like a slight hesitation or a catch. It happened maybe once every other ride, and it was never severe, but that on top of moderate arthritis issues, led me to retire her. I felt like it could be an accident waiting to happen…anyway I’d be interested to know what your vet says.