KS Spin-off - what DO you do with the young, unsound horse?

[fivestrideline]

@AmmyHour926

So if you take your average owner that likes horses and likes the sport who is happily paying $1200 a month for their hobby, but then something happens to the horse or a chronic injury is discovered and they are told hey you have to retire this horse and make sure its well cared for and provide maintenance for the next 15-20 years that $1200 that was a joy of the hobby very quickly turns into a financial burden. Not saying I agree with it, but I don’t fault anyone who thinks this way. Taking on a $200,000+ long term commitment when you get joy out of it is one thing, can be very emotionally draining when you don’t

Yes. 100%. And I’ll say that I have a supportive but bemused SO that doesn’t really question anything (I pay for the horse 100% out of my pocket anyways) but I know plenty of people that do NOT. Their SO is fine with the horse as long as something comes out of it - even if that’s just enjoyment - but there is a hard line of ROI coming from them. Especially when said animal is a huge source of stress and anxiety for the owner.

Still, if one had a truly unsound horse with no QOL - but that wasn’t currently trying to die - having peers and even vets making the decision harder for personal reasons doesn’t help.

[fivestrideline]

@lenapesadie

So what do we do with the horse that is only suitable for a light flat riding home with an experienced rider? If there were a plethora of homes for these horses, we wouldn’t be having such a lively conversation.

There’s a lot of what ifs when we speak of horses. Everyone has stories. Has a history. Yadda yadda. Mine is that I think a lot of horses are kept in less than optimal conditions, worked inappropriately and then discarded when surprise! they go lame.

Preach.

[lenapesadie]

@fivestrideline

feel as if I WANT to agree that one shouldn’t purchase any animal if they cannot support it no matter what - but I think that’s a short trip to making horses truly for only the rich. I also think plenty of people have been fine with two or three horses and are suddenly realizing they can only afford one; do we blame them if they choose to let the chronically NQR go?

Hi! I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but horses are for rich peeps.

Likely you and I don’t consider ourselves as rich but I promise you there are less fortunate people that do consider us as “rich”.

I’ll help you derail. Horse ownership is likely to decline. We, America, don’t have affordable housing for a large portion of our population. Farms are going down and apartments are going up.

We tell folks that a pet is a life long commitment. I know it can be hard to accept, but horses are pets (for the overwhelming majority of us). By all means, horses that are in chronic pain that cannot be controlled (or are otherwise miserable/unsafe / dangerous) should be considered for humane euthanasia. But I will continue to question the ethics of euthanizing a happy, healthy horse because he’s not able to play sports.

[2tempe]

I’m pondering this question so as to be prepared. The problem child is a 21 yr old mare, bi-lateral suspensory issues, dropped but not horrible fetlocks. She has cushings. She has a colic history - 2 surgeries - but has been fine for a bunch of years. Has a summer sore thing on belly that doesnt want to fully heal. Retirement place close to me, 12 hour turnout, decent care. She is pasture sound. Not sure she trots much, but ambles, eats etc. The farm is 200 acres, has been sold to developer and there are plans being presented to the county. I figure I might have a year left. NO WHERE in less than an hour from me that will do retirement board. She could maybe - if there is room - come to my boarding barn. only 6 hours t/o, stall smaller than her current foaling size stall, more expensive. I dont think that is the best solution, but its clear at some point I will be weighing these questions and decisions…

[lenapesadie]

@fivestrideline

Still, if one had a truly unsound horse with no QOL - but that wasn’t currently trying to die - having peers and even vets making the decision harder for personal reasons doesn’t help.

Vets can be a toughie. There are three major options for “equine” vet clinics in my county. One is what I call the sheep vet, their reputation is that they’ll basically do as the owner wishes without much question. A second, has a reputation for pushing for life against all odds. The third, is more balanced (imo). My family and I use the third. They have helped 4 of our horses over the bridge and have been good to work with each time (as good as an end of life experience can be of course).

[Pehsness]

Let me tell you… I did my time. Now I want to ride. I’ll squeeze another horse on to this little farmette if I have to, if my current one becomes unrideable (thankfully my goals are pathetic given the preceding decades with aforementioned lamey mclamersons and he should hold up) but I wouldn’t again go to great lengths. It would be Hard with a capital H, but so would letting 20 more years pass by without no hope of achieving the Goal.

[Lunabear1988]

My vet, who I’ve been using for probably almost 20 years now, said that she will tell people no about euthanizing if she thinks they’re doing out of just straight convenience. But she also euthanized one for me and then give me a blessing to donate the wobbler’s horse to CSU. She’s very level-headed.

I also had an instance where a vet refused to euthanize an 18-year-old cat of my 80-year-old grandmother’s (who was getting dementia.) The poor cat was no longer eating or even moving around and was so thin. It was definitely time. They were not do it without a diagnosis and quoted us like $800 in different tests they would have to do. My grandmother was living on social security and again looking at going into a nursing home soon herself. We had to take the cat to a different vet who was absolutely appalled that anybody would refuse to euthanize an elderly cat that was already very ill.

[fivestrideline]

Gosh that sounds like a cash grab. Yuck.

[Lunabear1988]

Maybe. I don’t know. I do think there’s kind of a thought of any life is better than no life. Or if there’s something you can fix to always do it. It reminds me of an article I read, it was about during surgeries on patients with dementia. Like yeah you probably can fix the heart issue, but is it really the right thing to do? I guess that’s a whole another topic for another thread. I don’t know I’m really big on quality of life all around. Not that it’s always simple.

[ClassyJumper]

I feel like I think about this alot. For the record I have owned 3 horses in my life, and 2 are still in the backyard. My childhood pony had to be put down sometime in her 30s. I have a small acreage that can support 2 horses decently but no more. My oldest is 22 and has had navicular for 10+ years. He hasn’t been sound to ride for sometime but is sweet and a good companion. My youngest is 9 and I worry quite a bit if something should happen to her I could be looking at 10 years without a riding horse.

My husband is more of a softie when it comes to the animals and I am a bit more pragmatic. I suspect we would look for more land should things go sideways with my current riding horse.

That said I moved halfway across the country, atleast partly due to the fact I would never be able to afford even 1 horse where I grew up. It’s so heartbreaking and I know most people would choose “retire” their horses if it wasn’t so expensive/impractical in most parts of the country.

[lenapesadie]

That must have been very difficult.

QOL is very important.

[Peggy]

I euthanized a horse shortly after his seventh birthday. He had neck issues that were causing repeated lameness issues and also appeared to be affecting him mentally. The horse started to way overreact to small things and I honestly feel like as a prey animal he felt compromised enough that he wouldn’t be able to get away from a predator. Or something. In any event, I felt that the combination of his probable quality of life coupled with the finances of retiring a horse that young made euthanasia the “best” choice (in a Sophie’s Choice sort of way). I also had another horse that I had retired from jumping at age 12 and from riding at age 14 that I paid for until he died at age 22.

Several weeks later I bought another horse and, after a few months, started showing him.

Virtually no one said anything negative to me, at least not to my face. Not even the horse’s breeder. My farrier said that she knew of a wealthy person who would take such horses and retire them but a-she told me this after he’d been euthanized, b-money runs out, and c-I wasn’t convinced the horse would have a great quality of life.

Ultimately the new horse had lameness issues that I ultimately resolved by a change of venue. In the middle of that I had one vet tell me that I’d already done more than most people would have. So, it’s not like I give up easily.

[Donella]

I suck it up and keep them and go without other things. The day I choose to treat one of my animals as a disposable “thing” is the day I take up a sport that doesn’t involve anything that is alive. Yes, its expensive. Yes it is very hard . But I need to be able to live with myself and killing my horse out of convenience would make that impossible. That’s me. Just being honest, since you asked. Again, to clarify, we are talking about horses that are healthy and happy as pasture pets …not horses that are suffering/ disabled as pasture pets.

[endlessclimb]

I euthanized my late mare instead of pursuing diagnostics on her latest issues.

She was minorly mechanically lame, somewhere. She was at Purdue many times. I have probably 50 xrays of various joints/feet/back, and did 2 bone scans on her. Injections of nearly everything, nothing helped. Ultrasounded tendons, nothing. Nothing was ever found.

She got diagnosed with lymphoma about a year after I got her. We were keeping it at bay with steroids. I told her after the cancer diagnosis that I was not going to let things get really bad before I let her go. I was going to let her go with the fire and FU attitude she always had. That said, we were living like it was a non-issue.

She survived with the cancer for a year and a half or so. She was honestly going better than she ever had. She looked incredible.

And then over the period of a week one side of her hindquarters atrophied. She seemed to feel fine otherwise, running bucking kicking and bossing the geldings around. But her hindquarters - one side looked like the 3’3" jumper she was, the other side looked like a starvation case.

I took her to Purdue. I had them ultrasound for a broken pelvis (inconclusive), but stopped diagnostics right there. I didn’t take her home.

Could I have limped her along for longer, until it was obvious and staring us in the face? Absolutely. Did I keep my promise to her to let her go while the going was good? Yes. And I’m not sorry about it at all.

I had a necropsy done on her. Nothing was found for the lameness. I suspect maybe EPM, but I didn’t know you had to request that test special. For how bad it was atrophied and for the fact she had to be on steroids to keep the cancer at bay, there was nearly no hope of recovery.

ETA: She was 8. Things were not going to get better for her, and she was not what I would call “safe” for most people. I loved that mare for who she was - fire, opinions, stressy, brave. That mare would do ANYthing for me.

[AmmyHour926]

I don’t think its about people thinking of horses as “things” and I don’t think anyone on this thread is recommending putting down a healthy, but sub performance animal. I think the question started specifically with a horse that is so uncomfy it can’t be handled or worked at the walk, it likely doesn’t fit the definition of pasture sound, even if visually looks sound at a trot up.

[MsM]

I have seen owners on both ends of the spectrum.

Really hate to see ads for 25 yo horses for “companion or light riding” for sale. Then the ad gushes about all the horse has done with the seller over the many years they owned him. Keep or free lease, please.

OTOH, I have seen a few horses that I thought should have been relieved of their pain. At my old horse’s retirement farm one of the other horses became increasingly lame. It got to the point that he was barely hobbling at the walk. BO talked to owner, but she was refusing to face reality. I finally told her to tell the owner that one of the other boarders will report her for cruelty (and I would have) BO was concerned about her role and told the owner that she must have the vet out and if the horse couldnt be effectively treated he would have to be euthanized or moved off her property.

I did retire a horse. I had him for 11 years by the time we couldnt get him riding sound. He was shiny and happy and on no prescription meds until the day he colicked six years later. It did take a toll on me, as I was unable to ride during that time and returning to riding at an older age was a project!

I guess I have a sliding scale of how much I “owe” a horse. I will do much more for a horse that I have owned for years and has done their best for me. A fellow boarder bought a horse which had problems after the first six months. He was 12ish, needed medication just to walk around a paddock, and was not a kind horse (pain may have had a lot to do with that) With medication he looked okay but he would never get better and would deteriorate over time. The vet said she could try retiring him with medication, but that he would also euthanize if that was her choice. I think that choice was both humane and practical.

My current horse has “earned” a retirement, if possible. But if I had a new horse with a bad prognosis, I might opt for one summer of comfort if possible and then euthanizing before winter.

[Lunabear1988]

Genuine question, how many people actually know people that have just euthanized out of convenience? Like personally know (and know what all they tried, how many vets they can consulted and what all the symptoms were)? Because I can’t say that I know any, personally. Not saying that it doesn’t happen I’m just curious how common it REALLY is?

Everybody that I’ve known that has had to put down a young horse have all been just some of the top horse people I’ve ever met. Really high quality go above and beyond for their horses. Listen to their horses. A few of them are on COTH here too. Not one of them has ever seen like they were throwing away their horse for convenience.

I have seen people lie and move horses along to other homes for convenience. I’ve seen that quite a bit. There is one girl that I’m sure was a psychopath. Just disconnected in an extreme way. Would go through horse after horse after horse just sending them all down the road at the first hiccup.

I’ve also known, like I’ve said before, a decent amount of people that were keeping their horse around for their feelings while their horse suffered endlessly.

But euthanize out of just straight convenience? I can’t think of anybody. Maybe it’s because of the part of the country I live in? It’s not super high performance like Florida. Although, land is much more limited here so you would think it would happen more.

I believe that everybody in COTH is a horse lover And that we are all doing our best even if it looks different

[sascha]

@Lunabear1988

Genuine question, how many people actually know people that have just euthanized out of convenience?

Safety, yes. Convenience, no. The one I’m thinking of spent years attempting to break every bone in his owner’s body. He was lovely. He was also “dirty.” Perhaps with today’s better diagnostics we’d have figured out what set him off - kissing spine, early Wobbler’s or some other neurological weirdness? But, back then, the responsible thing to do was NOT rehome him nor to retire him as he was a disaster of a stress ball when not working

[endlessclimb]

I know lots of people who have dumped horses out of convenience, but euth - personally, no. That said, I’m very liberal with what I consider to be valid reasons to euth. Extreme financial stress with a hard-to-rehome horse is one of them.

[tabula_rashah]

@Lunabear1988

Genuine question, how many people actually know people that have just euthanized out of convenience? Like personally know (and know what all they tried, how many vets they can consulted and what all the symptoms were)? Because I can’t say that I know any, personally. Not saying that it doesn’t happen I’m just curious how common it REALLY is?

I can think of exactly one instance. I used to work in the NICU at a major equine vet clinic. We had a Standardbred mare come in to foal because she’d had a difficult time with her last 2 foals and neither foal had survived.
Mare foaled out and foal had a lot of issues, the owner told the vet hospital to euthanize both mare and foal. Foal made sense but the mare was 100% sound and fairly young. A staff member asked owner if he would give her to them instead as a riding horse. He said no the mare didn’t deserve to live after not producing for him and they were both euthanized
This was over 20 years ago and it still bothers me. I don’t consider what the OP (or really anyone else on this thread) is talking about as being the same caliber