Kudos to Ann Romney

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=HSS;8522254]
Apparently. However, how could the rider and owner of the horse not know the horse was chronically lame? From the 3 series of exams over a period of years, and the veterinary history of the horse presented in the court documents, this was not a sudden injury, but a chronic, progressive disease, which, as we all know, navicular syndrome is.

But who knows what this obviously completely unethical vet told the owners? Or this suspiciously acting trainers either? I couldn’t find anything with Ann’s testimony. That’s why I don’t want to throw stones, because…I don’t know anything other than that the Romney’s were dropped from the suit after Ann’s testimony by the plaintiffs. Which does not sound as though her testimony indicated that she was part and parcel of this scheme. In a lawsuit, its is unusual for anyone with money to be dropped when attempting to recover funds. But that is speculation on my part.

I know that if this had happened to me, I would be searching for a new trainer though. Someone with a few more ethics. It’s far from my favorite activity, to be testifying in a lawsuit and being sued because of my involvement with a questionable person or persons…plus getting my name splashed all over the media.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, well we don’t know the real story here. How much did the Romney’s know? they are probably in a different state, no? you know, he was sort of busy running for president and such things?

navicular syndrome doesn’t mean much to many people, it’s a catch all for heel pain. It is also up for debate-- show X-rays to Vet 1, get an opinion. get another opinion from vet 2.

Of course you and I would work with ethical people, but sometimes you don’t know till later what is what. I have worked with bad vets and trainers before, sometimes you just can’t tell right off what is going on.

you might want a new vet, yes… but you don’t know that the trainer had anything to do with this, right?

But when selling, if someone handed me a check for 125,000 I’d take it. I’d expect the vet to seal the deal. these guys seem (?) hands off, they hire people to do things. Maybe that explains some aspects of this?

[HSS]

[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8522273]

navicular syndrome doesn’t mean much to many people, it’s a catch all for heel pain. It is also up for debate-- show X-rays to Vet 1, get an opinion. get another opinion from vet 2. [/QUOTE]

Dr. Soule testified that the horse had bone spurs and ringbone, and was lame both front legs, as well as other complications from years of steroid injections and compensating. He testified that the horse was unsuitable to be ridden at all, much less at FEI, and needed to be pasture retired immediately.

That’s a definitive diagnosis, not much up to discussion.

I’ve known of horses with horrid radiographs, who are being ridden and shown at high levels, and performing without qualm. If the horse exhibits no discomfort, that’s a whole other kettle of fish- then every expert can have an opinion of longevity.

But when the horse is lame on exam, doped to the gills to attempt to hide it, AND has horrid radiographs, that’s a whole other story.

Do horse people, even famous horse people, do questionable things? Yes, they do.

Just in recent history, fancy young horse is imported from famous euro barn, no pre-purchase issues. Horse comes to US, new owner (also very well known, accomplished, famous barn) and—horse gets his tongue over the bit. Repeatedly. New owner contacts old, gets told that “he never did that here”. New owner spends thousands trying to find a physical cause, and nothing. Does anyone believe that horse was sold half a world away becuase “he never did that here”?

Rider exhibits callous, extremely unsettling behaviors for years around stable and with own horses. Gets evicted from one barn after particularly egregious episode. Gets cold shoulder from established equestrian community, so flush with much cash, buys own place. Proceeds to purchase horseflesh the like of dreams, but can’t somehow manage to keep them sound, or keep a vet for more than 2 months, or keep a farrier for more than 6 weeks. Now relocated to another area, experiencing success with new string of fabulous horses and looking for a berth for Rio.

Extremely successful owner/breeder/judge/rider takes broken down mare (pastern joints the size of grapefruit, and dragging the ground due to supporting tendon ruptures) and sells said mare for $1.00 to ignorant young girl as a schoolmaster to ride. No care for the heartbreak and shock of young girl and young girl’s family or the fact that said horse probably ends up in slaughter. Just to save a couple dollars.

It just goes on and on and on…

It’s really endless. I do take heart though- these days there is much less fraud and abuse than when I was young- much less. The internet has really been a game changer. The people I hang around with are unquestionably more ethical and better horseman than the ones I learned from as a child. I think that shining a bright light on these abuses is very good for the sport.

I think that having a great role model like Ann Romney is also very good for the sport- she inspires me, and I hope many others to work through whatever life throws at you and keep trying.

[m_m1]

I had a front row seat of the way she chooses to use her horses. Not impressed.

I worked at a barn where she kept two of her horses, when her husband was Governor of my state. Since I was one of the little people, I faded into the woodwork, as if I wasn’t there. Because of that, I was easily within earshot when Ann, her Massachusetts trainer, and her groom had a conversation immediately following a vet consult wherein they were told to go easy on the horse, do no more than walk and trot, and that only if he was willing on any given day. (I don’t know the issue, but my guess was Lyme disease.)

Vet left, the three of them pow wowed, and the upshot? Horse was put back into work with longer spurs and the instructions to the groom, who sometimes rode, were to make that horse WORK.

Not a fan.

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=HSS;8522403]
Dr. Soule testified that the horse had bone spurs and ringbone, and was lame both front legs, as well as other complications from years of steroid injections and compensating. He testified that the horse was unsuitable to be ridden at all, much less at FEI, and needed to be pasture retired immediately.

That’s a definitive diagnosis, not much up to discussion.

I’ve known of horses with horrid radiographs, who are being ridden and shown at high levels, and performing without qualm. If the horse exhibits no discomfort, that’s a whole other kettle of fish- then every expert can have an opinion of longevity.

But when the horse is lame on exam, doped to the gills to attempt to hide it, AND has horrid radiographs, that’s a whole other story.

Do horse people, even famous horse people, do questionable things? Yes, they do.

Just in recent history, fancy young horse is imported from famous euro barn, no pre-purchase issues. Horse comes to US, new owner (also very well known, accomplished, famous barn) and—horse gets his tongue over the bit. Repeatedly. New owner contacts old, gets told that “he never did that here”. New owner spends thousands trying to find a physical cause, and nothing. Does anyone believe that horse was sold half a world away becuase “he never did that here”?

Rider exhibits callous, extremely unsettling behaviors for years around stable and with own horses. Gets evicted from one barn after particularly egregious episode. Gets cold shoulder from established equestrian community, so flush with much cash, buys own place. Proceeds to purchase horseflesh the like of dreams, but can’t somehow manage to keep them sound, or keep a vet for more than 2 months, or keep a farrier for more than 6 weeks. Now relocated to another area, experiencing success with new string of fabulous horses and looking for a berth for Rio.

Extremely successful owner/breeder/judge/rider takes broken down mare (pastern joints the size of grapefruit, and dragging the ground due to supporting tendon ruptures) and sells said mare for $1.00 to ignorant young girl as a schoolmaster to ride. No care for the heartbreak and shock of young girl and young girl’s family or the fact that said horse probably ends up in slaughter. Just to save a couple dollars.

It just goes on and on and on…

It’s really endless. I do take heart though- these days there is much less fraud and abuse than when I was young- much less. The internet has really been a game changer. The people I hang around with are unquestionably more ethical and better horseman than the ones I learned from as a child. I think that shining a bright light on these abuses is very good for the sport.

I think that having a great role model like Ann Romney is also very good for the sport- she inspires me, and I hope many others to work through whatever life throws at you and keep trying.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=m&m;8522414]I had a front row seat of the way she chooses to use her horses. Not impressed.

I worked at a barn where she kept two of her horses, when her husband was Governor of my state. Since I was one of the little people, I faded into the woodwork, as if I wasn’t there. Because of that, I was easily within earshot when Ann, her Massachusetts trainer, and her groom had a conversation immediately following a vet consult wherein they were told to go easy on the horse, do no more than walk and trot, and that only if he was willing on any given day. (I don’t know the issue, but my guess was Lyme disease.)

Vet left, the three of them pow wowed, and the upshot? Horse was put back into work with longer spurs and the instructions to the groom, who sometimes rode, were to make that horse WORK.

Not a fan.[/QUOTE]

It’s always amazing how small the horse world really is!

[Bristol_Bay]

[QUOTE=BAC;8520781]
I doubt it. People on these forums are always using that excuse for their lack of accomplishment.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I suppose if I didn’t have to work full time and could afford to import horses and have Olympic-level trainers put the moves on them, as well as have a private lesson anytime I wanted, I would still be plunking around training level.

[DownYonder]

After reading some of these responses, I am thinking that Ann perhaps is like many other busy folks with multiple demands on their time and focus, in that they perhaps rely too much on their trainers, and believe too much in their trainers, and esp. if they themselves don’t have a strong background in horse care. I find it hard to believe that she is as diabolical as some folks seem to insinuate.

[m_m1]

Perhaps, but she was part of the decision making pow-wow that I witnessed.

I have known people with a charming public persona, who weren’t quite as nice behind the scenes.

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=m&m;8522414]
I have known people with a charming public persona, who weren’t quite as nice behind the scenes.[/QUOTE]

I think we could all say the same thing!

[quietann]

[QUOTE=CFFarm;8521770]
When I think of Mrs Romney I have to laugh. I’m sure I don’t have the quote exactly right but I remember her saying in an interview when her husband was running, “I’m just like every other horse crazy woman, if I have to get up a 5 am and fly to California to ride with my trainer, I will”. Ya, I hate when I have to do that. LOL. Otherwise, good for her.[/QUOTE]

I can’t find the exact quote, but one way she is like some of us (at least according to various joking threads) is that her husband doesn’t really know how many horses she has :lol:

I’ve met her once – she had two horses boarded at a barn where I was taking lessons, a few years back – and I really could only describe her as gracious.

[m_m1]

Without a doubt, she comes across as gracious.

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=HSS;8522254]
Apparently. However, how could the rider and owner of the horse not know the horse was chronically lame? From the 3 series of exams over a period of years, and the veterinary history of the horse presented in the court documents, this was not a sudden injury, but a chronic, progressive disease, which, as we all know, navicular syndrome is.

But who knows what this obviously completely unethical vet told the owners? Or this suspiciously acting trainers either? I couldn’t find anything with Ann’s testimony. That’s why I don’t want to throw stones, because…I don’t know anything other than that the Romney’s were dropped from the suit after Ann’s testimony by the plaintiffs. Which does not sound as though her testimony indicated that she was part and parcel of this scheme. In a lawsuit, its is unusual for anyone with money to be dropped when attempting to recover funds. But that is speculation on my part.

I know that if this had happened to me, I would be searching for a new trainer though. Someone with a few more ethics. It’s far from my favorite activity, to be testifying in a lawsuit and being sued because of my involvement with a questionable person or persons…plus getting my name splashed all over the media.[/QUOTE]

She knew once the lawsuit hit, one can assume.
And at the point she didn’t opt to do the right thing and help out the poor ammie she saddled with her lame castoff… that to me is a measure of her character.
The dog on the roof for their hours long drive to vaca. was another opportunity to show character… or not.

I can think of lots of other challenged riders who accomplish great things who don’t do stupid merde like that… I will emulate them.

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=Velvet;8520319]
But, would you even care and make this public announcement if her husband wasn’t a well known politician? [/QUOTE]

What’s this about her husband ? Is that the man standing next to Jan Ebeling in the photo ? OMG it is. He should have stayed home, or back at the hotel and pretended he wasn’t there. Who does he think he is ?? It’s not like he’s a successful businessman, former governor, saved the SLC Olympics and thoroughly supports his wife’s passion for riding and her ownership of top international horses, one of whom represented the US in the 2012 London Olympics. Sshhhhhh don’t mention him, even though Ann has the same last name.

I guess we shouldn’t mention Akiko Yamazaki (well known owner of Ravel, Legolas, Rosamunde, et al) when her horses compete, or when she competes in the upper level classes, because of… well…you know… who her husband is.

Can’t have it both ways.

[Mardi]

@HSS;8522205

Gives me a whole different color to Alamo Pintata…geezus.

Alamo Pintado

http://www.alamopintado.com/

[Bogey2]

really? we must know each other, I trailered in for lessons with the other trainer there…I always found Ann to be more than gracious. I didn’t know her trainer very well though.

[QUOTE=m&m;8522414]
I had a front row seat of the way she chooses to use her horses. Not impressed.

I worked at a barn where she kept two of her horses, when her husband was Governor of my state. Since I was one of the little people, I faded into the woodwork, as if I wasn’t there. Because of that, I was easily within earshot when Ann, her Massachusetts trainer, and her groom had a conversation immediately following a vet consult wherein they were told to go easy on the horse, do no more than walk and trot, and that only if he was willing on any given day. (I don’t know the issue, but my guess was Lyme disease.)

Vet left, the three of them pow wowed, and the upshot? Horse was put back into work with longer spurs and the instructions to the groom, who sometimes rode, were to make that horse WORK.

Not a fan.[/QUOTE]

As for people with money and riding…there are a ton of people with lots of money who are not great rides no matter how much they spend so kudos to Ann!

[m_m1]

Oh, Ann was definitely gracious.

I didn’t work there long - a couple of months, Saturdays and Sundays. I did the feeding, turn-out, etc. The other trainer had her gorgeous black high-level competition horse at the time. And the minis were there.

[Sheri]

[QUOTE=Velvet;8520319]
But, would you even care and make this public announcement if her husband wasn’t a well known politician? If she was one of the masses, who would be out here announcing her accomplishments? Seems a bit ridiculous when others, with less name recognition, achieve similar goals and are never pointed out on this board or in articles.[/QUOTE]

Eeek sounds like mass vitriol . Try being happy and supportive for Mrs Romney.
It will get rid of frown lines.

As usual I don’t get it, nor do I want to. But why so many likes on this ridiculous post?

[Sheri]

[QUOTE=mvp;8520327]
And, OP, did you need to follow up the “invitation” to consider Mrs. Romney’s accomplishment with a potential insult for someone who doesn’t agree?

Sigh. I don’t understand why this forum needs to be preemptively snarky when folks feel someone might have a different point of view.

I think Winston Churchill was right about how people roll: “The smaller the topic, the more vicious the fight.”

In any case, good for Romney![/QUOTE]

And, Brava for you too MVP for your support for Ann.

[Sheri]

[QUOTE=Velvet;8520407]
You guys are SO funny. I’m the bad guy for pointing out that singing her praises and no one else’s for similar accomplishments is not really the best form. And yet I didn’t say her accomplishments should not be celebrated. I just don’t think it’s FAIR to the others who do similar things when they are not celebrated as well. That’s all. :lol: You guys are just so into taking things in the snarkiest way possible. :lol: Just pointing out that it’s kind of ridiculous to only bring her accomplishments up because she’s not one of the unwashed masses is not pissing in cheerios. It’s pointing out that so many out here want everything to be fair and equitable, and then ignore everyone who hasn’t been under the microscope of the media.[/

Fair and equitable ? God forbid you wound up with MS or another debilitating condition. So far I just see anger. I don’t have compassion for anger, but I do have a lot of admiration for people who try graciously.

Perhaps you can turn that frown upside down and be the good mouthpiece for everyone here who has achieved markers but never toot their own horns. That would be a nice thing to do.

[Sheri]

:disgust:

[QUOTE=Bristol Bay;8520408]
I would be much more accomplished if my husband had a couple of hundred million dollars.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure?:disgust:

[Sheri]

[QUOTE=HSS;8520529]
I had the absolute pleasure of putting my gloved hands in Ann’s horse to do the bit check at CA annual show this year. It was a thrill to watch her ride (along with several other billionaires by the way…) in the searing heat (I don’t know how anyone didn’t just pass out up there- it was a blast furnace, and I was just standing around).

She’s a lovely rider. The judge I was scribing for was very impressed with her tenacity in the face of her incredibly debilitating illness, but she didn’t get any marks she didn’t earn, let me assure you.

I admire her greatly. I don’t give a poo whether she has a bunch of money or trains with Jan Ebling or whatever. It’s no joke to have MS, and it’s no joke to ride in 100+degree temps in the small tour either, and my hats off to ALL the competitors by the way, who were on the whole, absolutely wonderful, cheerful, and polished.

And Candico, with all due respect, who knows what happened with Super Hit? Were you one of the principles? No? Then you don’t really have a clue, do you? Horse trading can be ugly, that’s why we draw blood. Seems as though it was settled, so that’s that.

And, as a matter of fact, I greatly admire Mitt Romney and wish with all of my heart that he had won the election, for the good of this country. I bitterly regret he did not, and that he is no longer in politics. He’s a very good man, something I find very scarce in the public arena. I would have loved a first lady who was an accomplished dressage rider- would have been great for our sport and classed up the office.

What? You think poor people run for national office? Get real.[/QUOTE]

If I could I would give HSS a lot more than one thumbs up. Thank God some people are not so Sheep-ish.