KWPN dressage stud with good frozen semen & excellent temperament

I am looking for suggestions KWPN stallions for breeding to my mare in 2014. I realize that is pretty far away, but I would feel better having all my arrangements made early and I am rather excited. :winkgrin:

She is currently in foal to the Hanoverian stallion, Schwarzenegger, for May 2014. And I like him so very much (and his owner) that I may decide to breed back to him again, but if I breed to a KWPN stallion my foal will have VB papers which I would prefer (I think … I am still trying to figure out how important that is). This is my first warmblood broodmare so I have a lot to learn, and the registries are very complicated. Thankfully the KWPN-NA staff were very helpful and patient with me. :slight_smile: I am going with the KWPN registry because the Oldenburg registry does not hold inspections in my area, and my mare is not eligible for Hanoverian inspection.

My mare had a very nice filly by Wolkentanz II this spring.

My aim is to breed nice amateur friendly horses. Gaits, talent, athleticism, and conformation, although very important, all come second to temperament.

Here is my mare’s pedigree: http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10909836

The mare, Olivia, has a great temperament, and very nice gaits. Is actually more refined than her photos make her look (1/4 Thoroughbred). She is bred for dressage, but is also talented over fences, and has produced one foal so far that has gone on to the jumper ring. She is only 15.2hh. She has a nice short strong loin, strong hindquarters, nice shoulder, neck and head. I would be happy to get an exact copy of her but taller, but if I could improve on one thing it would be her intelligence. She is very very very sweet, but a bit dull witted. She was a career broodmare living in a herd before I acquired her, so it may just be lack of education, but sometimes she just doesn’t come off as the sharpest tool in the box. :slight_smile: But very easy to train and willing to learn. And she loves to be loved. Her filly by Wolkentanz II is extremely intelligent, so it really may just be lack of handling. The filly is also huge! So she can throw height despite being only 15.2hh herself.

Here is photo of her on the day she was due to foal this past spring:

Sorry - I don’t have any decent conformation shots of her yet, I only purchased her in April and my camera barely works (I am only a couple hundred air mile points away from a new camara). :slight_smile: Almost all the photos I have of my horses and farm are all borrowed from my friend’s facebook pages. :wink:

My stallion wish list:

  • KWPN
  • Tall 16.3hh+++
  • Good frozen semen quality
  • Excellent temperament and trainability
  • Reasonable breeding fees (realize I may have to use a younger stallion to get the better prices)
  • Dressage is my main breeding focus for this mare, but my preference would be a sire that has produced dual purpose foals.
  • And of course all of the usual > good conformation, good bone, uphill, excellent gaits, etc.
  • I really don’t care too much about colour but my favourite colours are grey, black and chestnut. Bling is always welcome, because the buyers like it, but not important (more like a bonus).

Thanks in advanced for your advice.

Schroeder!! He is Hanoverian, but approved KWPN and just about everything else.
Kathy is great to work with and she is very reasonable.

Here is my Schroeder filly Shaharazad, shown at 2 yrs of age. She is o/o a Weltmeyer/batido mare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOqb8HNvO7g

She won her foal inspection and was one of the highest scoring foals in the US that year. She is bold, intelligent and an AMAZING mover.

Right now I have 2 GP riders looking at her.

BTW, I understand that most of Schroeder’s offspring are super easy to start u/s. I know he was campaigned for the start of his career by a 21-23 yr old girl…her first pro gig. And I think he got a 10 in rideability (plus some 9’s in gaits).

He throws height, a super active hind leg, correct legs/feet and an intelligent mind. I am very, very pleased with what he did for my mare, because he fixed what she needed fixing. He has Escudo as a damsire and his dam is highly decorated (like one of the best in the country) over in Germany.

Oh, and you will probably get a bay. He is homozygous for dark, so he won’t throw a chestnut…almost all of his babies that I have seen are this rich, red “blood-bay” with little white.

I understand Kathy has had some huge vet bills and is/was offering some deep discounts in her stud fees, so maybe check it out? My (one) mare is booked for the next 2 years, but I’d like to take her back to him one day…

Have a look at Connaisseur in BC. His foals are still very young but he is KWPN approved and might possibly be dual purpose given his bloodlines.

I think to to get VB papers, you have to breed to an Approved/Erkend stallion.

Schroeder is from an Erkend studbook and can sire Register A foals, but I don’t believe he has been through the Dutch stallion approval process, so is not considered an Approved/Erkend stallion.

At least, that is how things were explained to me when looking for a KWPN stallion for a friend’s mare.

The registration chart is here - http://kwpn-na.org/display/files/Registration_Chart_2012.pdf .

And the list of approved stallions is here: http://kwpn-na.org/stallions/ . I think the ones at the top of that page are the ones you need to look at for VB papers. Some of them are only available via frozen semen, though, so you will have to sort through them to figure out which ones are available via fresh semen. Schroeder’s owner has two that might work - Navarone and Farrington - but there are certainly others on the list that are worthy of consideration. You might want to take a look at Connaisseur - he is in Canada, so may save some shipping hassle due to CEM restrictions when shipping semen from the U.S. to Canada.

Hopefully the KWPN experts will chime in here with more ideas.

. I think to to get VB papers, you have to breed to an Approved/Erkend stallion.

Yes - this is what I was told. I need to find a fully approved KWPN stallion.

I already looked at all of the stallions on the KWPN-NA website and the only ones who caught my eye are all over my price point (Negro, Ampere, Rousseau, Idocus). The only one that interested me that was in my price point was Everdale - but I know nothing about him. What can people tell me about him?

I want to use frozen so really I don’t have to use a North American stallion.

Look at the KWPN list. UB40 is the sire of Apache who is very popular right now.
hhttp:http://www.ironspringfarm.com/stallion-horse-detail/2012-10-22/ub40//www.ironspringfarm.com/stallion-horse-detail/2012-10-22/ub40ttp://www.ironspringfarm.com/stallion-horse-detail/2012-10-22/ub40

What about Olivier
http://www.imajica.net/stallion/olivier/profile/

I am assuming that when you say “amateur friendly” that you mean a horse that is well suited to the average American ammy rider? Ie needs to be fairly forgiving and relatively quiet/easy to ride?

If that is the case then I would probably avoid UB40 as it says on his website he is best suited to mares with good temperaments (probably Jazz influence comng through). Apache is an amazing animal but clearly a horse that is best suited to top riders.

[QUOTE=stoicfish;7119361]
Look at the KWPN list. UB40 is the sire of Apache who is very popular right now.
hhttp:http://www.ironspringfarm.com/stallion-horse-detail/2012-10-22/ub40//www.ironspringfarm.com/stallion-horse-detail/2012-10-22/ub40ttp://www.ironspringfarm.com/stallion-horse-detail/2012-10-22/ub40[/QUOTE]

If you are looking for ammie friendly I wouldn’t go with UB40. Not only is he a really hot number himself, but a GP trainer friend of mine has started/shown/ridden 2-3 of them and says they are often great athletes, but have nervous minds. NOT ammie rides, especially as youngsters.

Obviously every horse has a mother as well, but just saying…

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7120084]
If you are looking for ammie friendly I wouldn’t go with UB40. Not only is he a really hot number himself, but a GP trainer friend of mine has started/shown/ridden 2-3 of them and says they are often great athletes, but have nervous minds. NOT ammie rides, especially as youngsters.

Obviously every horse has a mother as well, but just saying…[/QUOTE]

There may be better choices. I was thinking more of the type.

Temperament is number one

I am assuming that when you say “amateur friendly” that you mean a horse that is well suited to the average American ammy rider? Ie needs to be fairly forgiving and relatively quiet/easy to ride?

Yes - exactly. There are a lot of stallions on the KWPN Stallion database that catch my fancy - but I want to know which ones are known for great temperaments.

I don’t want to end up being blinded too much by my own preferences and forget that I am not breeding for myself but for buyers.

For example I am really drawn to both Jazz and Ferro descendants, but I have been warned to stay away from both for breeding amateur friendly horses.

Olivier looks lovely - but I really want to stay in the $1500 price range.

Ysabel, I sent you a PM.

Proven Frozen
Proven Sire
Excellent temperament
Versatile Offsprings.
Approved KWNP
I don’t know … Consul?
He would get my vote for sure.

Freestyle fits the criteria I believe. He stood in Holland at Nijhofs. His foals will get Register A papers out of Dutch mares…Register A works for most Dutch breeders…but ofcourse you always have other registeration options. I wouldn’t let just registry determine my stallion choices.

He has very good fresh semen…available in Canada via courier same day or next day service. Jennifer Arnold is super to deal with.

I have bred 3 Freestyles and am expecting one next year.

Yeah Schroeder will be erkend when he goes Grand Prix. He has already done his KWPN xrays and scoping, so the offspring don’t have to do that. He is on his way there. Starting PSG this year. He is amazing and the babies are incredible. We are so proud of what he is throwing.

And yes, I have a $10,000 vet bill from a mare I lost from enteritis. Almost 2 weeks in intensive care and we thought we had won the battle when she broke out in diarrhea and it that was it. :frowning: So, incredibly heartbreaking and quite the hit on us. Would be glad to give some discounts for breedings paid for now for next year. Farrington, unfortunately will probably not be standing next year. He is getting to that age.

For frozen, I suggest looking at Uphill or Carlton Hill. We’ve had some amazing moving foals from them. You can find them on our frozen semen list. We have other dressage stallions on there too. Over 50 frozen in stock. A lot of super jumpers too. Those are not mine to discount as we sell them for the owners, VDL Stud. www.majesticgaits.com

THIS!! To me the quality of the stallion & his get are far more important than the registry. And I think you will find that most RIDERS don’t really care about this stuff either. You can’t ride the papers or the head…:winkgrin:

[QUOTE=Majestic Gaits;7122967]
Yeah Schroeder will be erkend when he goes Grand Prix. He has already done his KWPN xrays and scoping, so the offspring don’t have to do that. He is on his way there. Starting PSG this year. He is amazing and the babies are incredible. We are so proud of what he is throwing.

And yes, I have a $10,000 vet bill from a mare I lost from enteritis. Almost 2 weeks in intensive care and we thought we had won the battle when she broke out in diarrhea and it that was it. :frowning: So, incredibly heartbreaking and quite the hit on us. Would be glad to give some discounts for breedings paid for now for next year. Farrington, unfortunately will probably not be standing next year. He is getting to that age.

For frozen, I suggest looking at Uphill or Carlton Hill. We’ve had some amazing moving foals from them. You can find them on our frozen semen list. We have other dressage stallions on there too. Over 50 frozen in stock. A lot of super jumpers too. Those are not mine to discount as we sell them for the owners, VDL Stud. www.majesticgaits.com[/QUOTE]

Kathy – I TOTALLY forgot how much high quality frozen you have in stock…I’m sure the OP can find something there that will suit.

And (since you forgot to mention it) don’t you offer your “live” stallions as back up if the mare doesn’t get pregnant from the frozen? Not exactly LFG, but it is far better than just losing all your $$ if the frozen doesn’t work.

SO sorry to hear about your losing your mare…I hope you didn’t mind me mentioning this here on COTH…

All I can say is that Schroeder certainly did everything I wanted him to in regards to “fixing” my mare’s short-comings.

I will be going back to him again for sure.

A few questions for the original poster . . .
1)are you sure foals from this mare can get VB papers even when she’s bred to an approved Dutch stallion? This mare is by Odilon, who is NOT approved Dutch. What is the mare’s birth registry? The link you provided said she is Oldenburg. I am assuming she is GOV registered since Kathleen bred her? I would just double check with the KPWN office on the registration possibilities for her foals.
2)If Olivia is GOV registered, why not consider a GOV stallion? This would open up a lot more stallion choices for you.
3)Stud fee seems to be a big concern for you. The stud fee is by the far the cheapest part about breeding. I wouldn’t cheap out on the stud fee. Pick the stallion that best compliments your mare. If you can’t afford a $2000 stud fee, are you sure can afford to breed? You can quickly burn through a LOT of money if the mare or foal get sick. Also, if you are breeding with frozen and the mare doesn’t catch the first time, you are hooped. Why not consider a fresh semen stallion with a LFG? If you are willing to look at other than KWPN stallions, Dreamscape Farm has a large selection of stallion, very reasonable stud fees and then you don’t have to worry about frozen semen or shipping from the US. There are some extremely nice dressage stallions available in Canada. You already mentioned Schwarzenegger and WII. There is also Fabregas, Freestyle, Sir Gregory, Sagnol, Connaiseur, Bonheur. You mentioned being interested in a dual purpose stallion. What about Sir Wanabi or Bon Balou?

Contango? Certainly dual purpose. The one I have (jumper out of a Voltaire mare) has plenty of blood, but is super forgiving and has been so easy to work with.