Laminitis / Founder question

[LuckyAlter]

My horse had a really strange onset of laminitis and now the xrays are showing that he has founder. It’s not a severe rotation and hopefully it will stay that way.

I know there is a lot to learn about laminitis and I feel very overwhelmed by everything that I am learning.

I just want to ask if it’s normal for them to sometimes have elevated digital pulses and hoof heat during the healing process or does this mean that they are laminitic again? Can the laminitis start again for no real reason? I went ahead and iced his feet yesterday after I felt heat.

The horse has been on stall rest for weeks now. In soft ride boots on thick shavings. He was only on 1g bute yesterday when I noticed some heat. He is on pelleted feed and soaked hay. He’s getting Pergolide, Thyroid-L, and Isoxsuprine.

His attitude yesterday was very good in that he didn’t seem more painful than usual.

Thanks so much for any help!

[NancyM]

The laminitis CAN start again, for the SAME reason, not for NO reason. An allergic response can result in laminitis. Ask your vet about this, and try to nail down the REASON why the laminitis started in the first place. If it is an allergy, using an antihistamine can be helpful, also atravet (which opens blood vessels) at this early stage.

Good luck!

[ponymom64]

Dealing with laminitis is very overwhelming! Honestly, if your horse has a digital pulse and heat, I would call the vet right away. The disease can go from 0 - 100 very rapidly.

[Huntin_Pony]

A good resource:

www.ahf-laminitis.org

If the horse has an elevated digital pulse, put the horse in ice and call the vet.

[kdreger]

[QUOTE=LuckyAlter;8235840]
I just want to ask if it’s normal for them to sometimes have elevated digital pulses and hoof heat during the healing process or does this mean that they are laminitic again?[/QUOTE]
No, not normal. This means your horse is suffering more damage and needs to be treated as an acute case. I would have him standing in cold flowing flowing water right away to stop any more damage.

[LuckyAlter]

His feet were back to normal yesterday and less digital pulse. It was his first day with no bute. I called the vet and we are going back to 2g of bute for three days and then taper down again. I’ve started icing again three times per day. No other advice or suggestions were given by the vet. He said that this case is considered mild to moderate overall, but that doesn’t stop me from feeling frustrated that we don’t have it under better control. It seems like it just takes a very, very long time for them to feel comfortable again? We are three weeks out for the initial episode.

[kdreger]

I have not seen your horse like the veterinarian has but on my horses out and moving was a lot better for them then stall rest. In fact, all the ones we treated for founder were hand walked until they could be rode at a walk. Straight lines and big easy circles. With water/ice and a little bute they were walking 24 hours after and riding 5-10 days later.

[khall]

It really just depends on each case, my first mare was mechanical founder and she came back with little to no issues fairly quickly even being TO daily in a paddock with her soft rides. This summer my 20 yr old presented end of June with laminitis (dex induced from treating non responsive vasculitis/cellulitis to antibiotics) she is still stall bound, had a set back that required 4 days of DMSO and she is still not very happy on her LF even in soft rides. Looking at having vet do a venogram next week see where she is at. Does not help that farrier and initial vet are not agreeing with treatment regime (I am following farrier advice). She is still stall bound not stepping one foot out bedded very deeply. Not sure when she will be able to get out. And she has very little rotation (only LF boney column, RF capsular rotation). Laminitis is my worst night mare.

[LuckyAlter]

Luckily he was much better today on the 2g of Bute. Will taper after 3 days. No heat and no pulses. He’s still ouchy though. What will a venogram tell you? My vet hasn’t mentioned that yet. We’re scheduled for xrays again next week. Laminitis sucks so bad, but I’m fortunate that my horse has a great attitude and is really good about being on stall rest.

[Katy_Watts]

This: "Luckily he was much better today on the 2g of Bute. "
in realistic language should read: Sadly, it is now taking 2 g of bute to manage his pain. Find a vet who can help you find the cause, not just treat symptoms.

Hope this article will be helpful:
http://www.safergrass.org/pdf/LaminitisDefense.pdf

[maunder]

Have you had blood tests to see what is the underlying condition for the laminitis? You mention that your horse is on Pergolide, Thyroid-L, and Isoxsuprine so is there confirmation of a metabolic condition?

I just lost my 6 year old beloved mini gelding to laminitis associated with Insulin Resistance. He was diagnosed with IR in January and I had to put him down the end of June.

I agree with the others…please try to nail down the cause of the laminitis, because treatment has to be specific to the case.

I sure hope you have success treating this.

[LuckyAlter]

We are having blood work pulled on Thursday to test the metabolic condition.

Why did your mini gelding not survive the laminitis attack?

I feel like I have so many more questions than answers.

The only thing I have not done yet is have the hay tested and add a magnesium supplement.

thanks for you kind wishes ~

[Ambitious_Kate]

It sounds like you don’t have the laminitis under controll. Good luck.

[maunder]

[QUOTE=LuckyAlter;8239070]
We are having blood work pulled on Thursday to test the metabolic condition.

Why did your mini gelding not survive the laminitis attack?

I feel like I have so many more questions than answers.

The only thing I have not done yet is have the hay tested and add a magnesium supplement.

thanks for you kind wishes ~[/QUOTE]

In my little guy’s case the recommended dietary changes, weight loss and magnesium supplement support did not help. Here is an article that explains a bit more why IR can cause a “heart attack in the feet.”

My veterinarian said no diet change would have saved him. He would stabilize a bit, but never truly recovered. I had three doctors working with me to try to save him.

https://uckeleequine.wordpress.com/2015/07/15/how-does-insulin-resistance-cause-laminitis/

[ladipus]

Yes it can start again and have flair ups…my pony is IR …he’s on Metformin, Isoxsuprine, Palatech(Levothyroxine/thyroid supplement), Previcox, Heiro, Remission, Antiflamm, and Acepromazine, he gets a low NSC ration Balancer, and tested low sugar first cut Timothy …deep bedded shavings, soft ride boots -and is finally doing much better since his last acute bout of laminitis a month ago…we did test him for Lyme…and low and behold …he came up positive …so that might have been a dwelling driving force along with all his metabolic issues…so he’s now also on doxycycline and has made a complete turnaround! He’s back to going back out to his field again!!
Also I was told about a product called MMP Stop that is excellent to give within the first 48 hours of a laminitic flare up…as well as EMS/IR Formula and Hoof Ailments Formula…you can find them on: forloveofthehorse.com

[LuckyAlter]

ladipus - great news about learning about the Lyme disease! Thanks for telling me about the different supplements you are using. I had mine tested for Lyme in the past and he was negative luckily.

Today was interesting, he had a slight pulse in only one foot. I noticed that pulse would change (and be nonexistent) based on the way he was standing. Overall he seemed pretty comfortable, but I know that we’re not out of the woods yet.

[ladipus]

Just keep a close eye on him…things can change fast…also hoof abscesses are very common with laminitis

[AKB]

Pulses can be quite subjective and variable. If you feel like the pulses are stronger than usual, wait a few minutes and then check again. I have found that sometimes, the horse repositions himself and the pulses seem normal again.

Try to figure out the reason for the laminitis. We have had 5 horses with laminitis over the years. Two, I now believe were related to the weed hoary alyssum in our alfalfa cubes. The two horses also had prolonged fevers, generalized swelling, low blood platelets, and severe laminitis. Neither survived. One of our horses ate all of the leaves off a red maple tree limb that blew into the pasture from the neighbor’s yard in a storm. He was pretty sick for a while, but is fine now. Our old guy had laminitis related to undiagnosed Cushings. He has had no further problems with laminitis since starting Prascend pergolide tablets. Another of our boys had laminitis with rotation as a supporting limb laminitis after a bad splint bone fracture. He is doing well.

Laminitis is a horrible disease.If you can find a cause and remove the cause, the horse often does well. If you can’t find the cause, all of the voodoo remedies and veterinary remedies, often won’t solve the problem. Remember to watch for abscesses after a bout of laminitis. We always seemed to get them about 5 weeks after the laminitis. A quick farrier trip to open it up, and new shoes/hospital plates are sometimes the ticket to soundness with a laminits related abscess.

Good luck. I hate laminitis.

[LuckyAlter]

Quick update- he has stabilized and doing well! Very little pulse. Next set of xrays will be on Tuesday. Should also have results of blood work back by then too and hay testing. I am feeling cautiously optimistic! The farrier will do a little trim on Tuesday but we will probably keep him in the soft ride boots. I’ve learned that there are a few treats that he can have including celery (which he loved!), sugar free mints, and peanuts in the shell.

[khall]

Well a venogram probably has saved my mare today. I am lucky to have access to a quality vet that can perform and read the venogram on the farm (and was lucky he was coming out today for another horse!). Found out my mare’s LF has greatly reduced blood flow so she was shod today with special plate supportive shoes and had her hoof wall grooved to allow for hoof expansion and to restore blood flow. Her RF blood flow was fine thankfully. I am also lucky that my farrier is a fabulous farrier and works with this vet so well. Really the venogram is the ONLY way to have a complete picture of what is going on in the hoof of the horse. She was also started on pentoxyphyline in addition to Thyro-L and prascend and bute as the anti inflammatory. Quite a pharmacy going on here.