Laminitis /or club foot?/

[tarynls]

[QUOTE=Tom Bloomer;6013567]
Charles Piccione’s Experience

Platinum Marketing Group / Sales

ReMax 100 Realestate

October 2006 – Present (5 years 3 months)
Marketing Residential,Commercial and Farm Properties in the Greater Lehigh Valley and NorthWest New Jersey.
Lic: NJ and PA, ABR and SRS certified[/QUOTE]

But wait - is this referring to Jr. or Sr.? I sure wouldn’t want a real estate agent shoeing my horse!

If you Google “Charlie Piccione Farrier”, a website comes up (www.equinehoofpro.com) - and on the ‘Welcome’ page, he refers to himself as Charlie Piccione Jr. in one place and Charlie Piccione in another. So who is the real estate agent and who is the farrier?

[Rick_Burten]

Pete Ramsey knows a horse’s lower limbs and hooves better than anybody."

Wanna bet? You ever attended a wet lab with Mitch Taylor or Dave Duckett? I’d buy a ticket to see Ramey go head to head with Mitch and/or Dave. And Mitch/Dave are but two of several that I’d wager have more knowledge about the horse’s lower limbs and hooves than Ramey does.

I do like the layout of your website but there are some “inconsistencies” and incorrect definitions that you might want to address. To help you identify those things, I suggest you start with your initial definition of medial and lateral, and then review the information posted about laminitis and founder(hint: they are not one in the same. Extra credit, why not?)

[Charlie_Piccione]

[QUOTE=tarynls;6013578]
But wait - is this referring to Jr. or Sr.? I sure wouldn’t want a real estate agent shoeing my horse!
:lol:No I am sure you wouldn’t, but I would bet you would want a farrier to find you a horse facility.

If you Google “Charlie Piccione Farrier”, a website comes up (www.equinehoofpro.com) - and on the ‘Welcome’ page, he refers to himself as Charlie Piccione Jr. in one place and Charlie Piccione in another. So who is the real estate agent and who is the farrier?

That is my son he has his own full time business, I wear a few hats besides my hoof care clients, one hat is a textile chemist ( no longer go there but can) another is a ReMax Realtor with lic in 2 states active, another is a pretty active fiddler, another is horseman ( probably longer than you have been breathing)
So what exactly is wrong with a Realtor trimming your horse?I hope I helped get you straighten up;)
Here is a thank you link, may also help explain
http://equestrianenterprizes.com/A_Special_Thanks.html. [/QUOTE]
:no:

[Charlie_Piccione]

[QUOTE=Rick Burten;6013618]
Wanna bet? You ever attended a wet lab with Mitch Taylor or Dave Duckett? I’d buy a ticket to Ramey go head to head with Mitch and/or Dave. And Mitch/Dave are but two of several that I’d wager have more knowledge about the horse’s lower limbs and hooves than Ramey does.

I do like the layout of your website but there are some “inconsistencies” and incorrect definitions that you might want to address. To help you identify those things, I suggest you start with your initial definition of medial and lateral, and then review the information posted about laminitis and founder(hint: they are not one in the same. Extra credit, why not?)[/QUOTE]

You would be betting the wrong guy!!! But I will hold your money.:yes:

[Rick_Burten]

[QUOTE=Charlie Piccione;6013649]
You would be betting the wrong guy!!! But I will hold your money.:yes:[/QUOTE]
There was a time when taking money on a sucker’s bet was something I willingly and gladly did. But its the holiday season and I’ve somewhat reformed, so I’ll just let you keep your money and your dignity. Out of curiosity, do you even know who Mitch Taylor and Dave Duckett are and what their accomplishments in academia and under the horse, might be?

[Charlie_Piccione]

[QUOTE=Rick Burten;6013664]
There was a time when taking money on a sucker’s bet was something I willingly and gladly did. But its the holiday season and I’ve somewhat reformed, so I’ll just let you keep your money and your dignity. I am not the one betting. I am so happy that you are a bit reformed for the Holiday Season, other wise I don’t know what the H*LL you would come up next;)

Out of curiosity, do you even know who Mitch Taylor and Dave Duckett are and what their accomplishments in academia and under the horse, might be?
I can not say that I have ever had the pleasure of a face to face meeting with Mr Duckett but yes I have read/study the information that has been made available via the web, as far as Mr Taylor if you are referring to the one that owns the Kentucky School of Farrier, no I know nothing of him but have heard he turns out some good farriers. Why do you ask? [/QUOTE]

^

[tarynls]

[QUOTE=Rick Burten;6013618]
Wanna bet? You ever attended a wet lab with Mitch Taylor or Dave Duckett? I’d buy a ticket to Ramey go head to head with Mitch and/or Dave. And Mitch/Dave are but two of several that I’d wager have more knowledge about the horse’s lower limbs and hooves than Ramey does.[/QUOTE]

Count me in, Rick. I’d buy a ticket as well. I had the opportunity to watch Dave do a dissection about a year ago and I’m looking forward to seeing Mitch’s dissection of the upper hind limb at the IHCS in Cincinnati. I have seen Ramey in action and I wasn’t impressed.

Charlie, my husband IS my farrier. I don’t want him to find me a horse facility. He freely admits I know much more about the proper layout for a barn to run as efficiently as possible, as well as water and electrical needs, than he does…even though he’s been a farrier for over 20 years. In fact, he works in one of the states you mention you cover, yet he’s not heard of your name. Probably because he covers a small, horse-dense territory.

He does have a few requests regarding horse property: first, that aisle lights are not placed directly over the horses’ back, but rather one light on each side of the horse so he can work and not be in shadows. He also requests GFCI electrical outlets in close proximety to the shoeing area - and the shoeing area to be close to where he parks his rig. The last two requests are assuming we will not have a shoeing shop on premises.

“So what exactly is wrong with a Realtor trimming your horse?I hope I helped get you straighten up” Thanks, but I didn’t need straightening up to begin with.

[Charlie_Piccione]

[QUOTE=tarynls;6013700]
Count me in, Rick. I’d buy a ticket as well. I had the opportunity to watch Dave do a dissection about a year ago and I’m looking forward to seeing Mitch’s dissection of the upper hind limb at the IHCS in Cincinnati. I have seen Ramey in action and I wasn’t impressed. Agreed with
Charlie, my husband IS my farrier. I don’t want him to find me a horse facility. He freely admits I know much more about the proper layout for a barn to run as efficiently as possible, as well as water and electrical needs, than he does…even though he’s been a farrier for over 20 years. In fact, he works in one of the states you mention you cover, yet he’s not heard of your name. Probably because he covers a small, horse-dense territory.
You are probably little farther south than I go at present, I go as far as Jamesburg 8a on the TurnpikeBut most clients are in Hunterdon,Morris,Warren and Sussex Counties
He does have a few requests regarding horse property: first, that aisle lights are not placed directly over the horses’ back, but rather one light on each side of the horse so he can work and not be in shadows. He also requests GFCI electrical outlets in close proximety to the shoeing area - and the shoeing area to be close to where he parks his rig. The last two requests are assuming we will not have a shoeing shop on premises.
Are you looking for an Equestrian Property?
“So what exactly is wrong with a Realtor trimming your horse?I hope I helped get you straighten up” Thanks, but I didn’t need straightening up to begin with.
There are times that I do.[/QUOTE]
^

[tarynls]

Charlie - Yes, we are out of your territory. We are in the preliminary stages of coordinating a move to the midwest and we are looking for a small farm.

[Charlie_Piccione]

You mean you want to leave this wonderful, corrupt, over taxed Garden State?
Good Luck on your move. If you need a good agent to help you out there I can help you find one. Good ones save you a pile of money through their on going education requirements and now a days short sale and forclosure properties are probably what you will be looking at.
People don’t sell in this market unless they have too and buyers are king.

[Charlie_Piccione]

Sorry, ShadowDancsere we have completely ruined you thread trying to get all the facts and words correct to the letter. You know crossing T and dotting I’s
Did anyone ever answer your original question?

[Prime_Time_Rider]

I have an IR mare who had a bout of laminitis 2 1/2 years ago and she has returned to full work and remained sound. She had slight (1 degreee) rotation in both front hooves. I have been able to manage her condition with a great farrier and some lifestyle/dietary changes.

We are fortunate to have a an equine foot/hoof specialist vet in our area. She recommended soaking my mare’s hay in water for one hour, then draining it before feeding. The soaking removes the sugars from the hay. My mare eats Wellsolve Weight Control feed and wears a grazing muzzle except in the dead of winter when the grass is dead. I also give her the Smartpack IR supplement, although it is hard for me to determine if it is making a difference. For treats she gets sugarfree mint lifesavers.

While a laminitic horse does require some special care, I wouldn’t write one off just because it had laminitis. The disease can be managed without much trouble as long as the owner and/or BO are willing to put forth the effort. Not every case has the same prognosis, so I would definitely ask my vet for his/her opinion after looking at the horse in question.

[Rick_Burten]

@Charlie Piccione

I can not say that I have ever had the pleasure of a face to face meeting with Mr Duckett but yes I have read/study the information that has been made available via the web, as far as Mr Taylor if you are referring to the one that owns the Kentucky School of Farrier, no I know nothing of him but have heard he turns out some good farriers. Why do you ask?

I am indeed referring to that Mitch Taylor. I asked because if you had done your due diligence you would never have made the outlandish, ludicrous and totally incorrect statement with regard to Mr. Ramey’s expertise that you did.
And I would be remiss if I failed to make note of Dr. Deb Bennett’s expertise in that area either. And that is only the very tip of the iceberg when it comes to those who are better versed in the anatomy, physiology and biomechanics of the equine limb than is the vaunted Mr. Ramey.

[Tom_Bloomer]

@Rick Burten;6013618

You ever attended a wet lab with Mitch Taylor or Dave Duckett?

For me the answer is yes to both, and I’ll add a wet lab with the late Dr. Jim Rooney.

But seriously Rick, do you think it is fair to compare Ramey to people with advanced degrees who have been paid to teach equine anatomy and biomechanics to veterinary students in an accredited college?

[Tom_Bloomer]

“. . . one hat is a textile chemist ( no longer go there but can) . . .”

That explains the fabric-ations! :lol:

[deltawave]

Oh wow, another participant in the hoof train wreck circus! :lol:

Psst, Charlie . . . you might want to look up the ACTUAL definitions of “medial” and “lateral” and make corrections to your website if you want anyone besides a 4H dropout to take you seriously as a hoof expert.

Quite an elaborate construction to sell minerals.

[Rick_Burten]

[QUOTE=Tom Bloomer;6013938]

But seriously Rick, do you think it is fair to compare Ramey to people with advanced degrees who have been paid to teach equine anatomy and biomechanics to veterinary students in an accredited college?[/QUOTE]
When someone sallies forth with the [mis-]statement

@Charlie Piccione

Pete Ramsey knows a horse’s lower limbs and hooves better than anybody."

you bet I do.

Come to think of it, my list also includes Denoix, Savoldi, Stiller, O’Grady, Curtis, Hayes, Stovall, Roberge et al. In fact, Ramey would be hard pressed to find a place among the top 25 on my list. So, to me, for someone to proclaim him #1 is insulting, foolish, short sighted, ignorant and downright Stoopid(sic). ymmv.

[doublesstable]

[QUOTE=ShadowDansere;5871816]
Hey all, I know there’s lots of threads on this but I wanted all your personal opinions. A disclaimer: this is a friend’s horse, not mine, but I was considering buying her sometime next year, so I wanted to hear what you think.

She is a 6 year old OTTB just diagnosed with laminitis. Vet took x-rays and it seems that her right front has a slight rotation of the coffin bone, but minimal. Wanted the farrier to correct her long toes but bring her heel under only by 1/4".

Didn’t present with any obvious symptoms, she’s not overweight, even a little ribby – just gave birth a few months ago to her first foal. Only symptom was on and off lameness and very sensitive feet – which presented especially on the gravel driveway, so I just assumed she had crappy TB feet aka thin soles, but she definitely was trying to tell us something… The day the vet came out to x-ray, her bad hoof looked really bad… had a spot on the inside that looked like it was caving in.

Now this mare has the best brain ever, I really love her personality, but her soundness issues are concerning me. A boarder at the barn tried to reassure me that it’s the farrier–he does a pretty horrible job: her toes are always long and her heels are really really low, but since it’s not my horse yet it’s not my place to say anything.

What are your experiences in having a horse recover from laminitis? Is it something that is reoccurring? Would it be a really bad idea to buy a horse that you knew had this issue? :no:

Thanks all![/QUOTE]

Without seeing photos or seeing the horse in person it’s hard to tell… but proper trimming/shoeing can change a lot that’s for sure.

I purchased a big guy a few years back that was sensitive on hard ground thinking it was thin soles… and after xrays, it was and also a flat as pancakes coffin bones. Cant change the coffin bone but over time the soles really thickened up but it took YEARS of proper trimming/shoeing, diet and exersize.

Back in the 70’s I had a QH that foundered and in those days there wasn’t a great deal that could be done… I ended up having to put her down. But these days there are better treatments that I have seen work on other horses…

What did the Vet say about this mare?

Can you talk to the owner and ask if she/he would allow you to have another farrier work on her since you have an interest to purchase her?

I am of the thought it never hurts to try…

[Tom_Bloomer]

@deltawave;6014153

Oh wow, another participant in the hoof train wreck circus! :lol:

Hey, WHAZZUP ZZZzzz Doc? How ya been?

[doublesstable]

[QUOTE=ShadowDansere;6012930]
how do you guys recommend finding a good farrier? i’ve been around horses for most of my life, but my horse owning education is only very basic since i’ve never owned a horse. i don’t know much about shoeing.

i’m in the seattle area, if that helps at all.[/QUOTE]

I see in another post you are not going to purchase the mare… but now you have some information maybe you can still help the horse?

I look at other peoples horses hooves and see if they look right and then ask who the farrier is.

LOL I have done that with hair salons too… I see someone with a nice hair cut and color and ask where they went…