Yea, doublesstable, I’m totally torn. I had so many posts on here telling me not to bother… But I’m so in love with this mare! I rode her again for the first time in months and she was so sweet and willing…
Ugh! Tough decisions. 
Pete Ramsey knows a horse’s lower limbs and hooves better than anybody."
If you are going to name names, at least spell his name right. It is “Ramey”. And yes he knows lower leg anatomy quite well, as good as a lot of educators. But he is certainly not “better than anybody” He learned anatomy from OTHER people .
Hey all, I wanted to revive this thread to get a second opinion on this mare’s feet. If you read the original post, you will see she was diagnosed via xray for laminitis in her right front, with only a few degrees rotation. Had a little abscess in her left front, but no signs of rotation/laminitis.
Since it was suggested that it might be a club foot rather than laminitis, I took some pictures of her feet a bit ago since her right foot was looking weird again. She was overdue for a trim by about a week, I think she goes on a six week schedule, and it still took the farrier another week and a half or so to come out, even though it looked like her right front shoe was about ready to slip off. [sigh]
Anyway, here are the pictures. Sorry they’re blurry, they’re the best I could do. Please let me know anything you think about her feet. Thanks!
http://s1186.photobucket.com/albums/z374/shadowdansere/Ponos%20feet/
Yikes…so many wrong things in these few photos! Very obvious, Low/High Syndrome, with the left front being low, the right front being high. Stress lines (whether metabolic or not) are present, loooooooooong toes, the left front has NO heel, the right front has a very long under run heel, and both have toes that have run away from where they are supposed to be.
This poor mare needs a REALLY good trim…or five…and this is only a week overdue!?
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I would suggest you find a Farrier. These can be fixed but not by the present hoof care provider.
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Wow…just wow…poor horse! This horse seriously needs a new farrier. Good for you for trying to educate yourself on this matter. She has some really bad looking feet but a GOOD Farrier could do wonders with her over the course of a year. Here in the northeast we pay $250 per shoeing for a good farrier and a horse like this should be shod every 4 weeks like clockwork for quite a while. Over time maybe every 5 weeks.
I can’t comment on whether she foundered… You will need a good Vet for that. If the Vet you are currently using saw this shoeing and didn’t recommend a new Farrier then you also need a new Vet
Good luck!
That is just bad (really, really bad) shoeing . Even if it had been a week overdue, there is no excuse for the club foot to look like that. Now if it was a couple MONTHS overdue I would expect that much distortion in some hooves.
So if this is really just one week ovrdue, (at 7 weeks) a new farrier is my prescription.
Given that this horse had no laminitis symptoms. (according to the ealier posts) I am suspecting just very poor shoeing all along, if this is the same farrier.
Although bad farriery can look like founder on an Xray when it is THAT bad, seeing the radiographs would be very helpful to determine if the foot actually foundered or if it is just the obviously mismanaged club foot. There are a few parameters that can be measured on the radiographs that help determine this.
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[QUOTE=ShadowDansere;6082526]
She was overdue for a trim by about a week, I think she goes on a six week schedule, and it still took the farrier another week and a half or so to come out, even though it looked like her right front shoe was about ready to slip off. [/QUOTE]
She may be “just” a week overdue according to the schedule set for her, but she’s way, WAY overdue for good trimming.
These feet, both of them, haven’t seen good trimming in a long time 
[QUOTE=ShadowDansere;6082526]
Anyway, here are the pictures. Sorry they’re blurry, they’re the best I could do. Please let me know anything you think about her feet. Thanks!
http://s1186.photobucket.com/albums/z374/shadowdansere/Ponos%20feet/[/QUOTE]
This is a very large part of why people abandon the idea of shoes. It is a classic example of a hack farrier doing business in an area and taking people’s money. I may be that he/she is the cheapest, certainly not the most timely, and the work is horrendous at best. I wonder what school is teaching this type of work.
They missed the first part of the class, trimming.
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Mushroom fertilizer. What if the horse was barefoot and trimmed by a non-farrier and the feet looked like that?
It is a classic example of a hack farrier doing business in an area and taking people’s money.
Before making the condemnation, did you see the feet when they were first trimmed and shod? What if the horse had been barefoot?
I may be that he/she is the cheapest, certainly not the most timely, and the work is horrendous at best.
Unfortunately, for many of today’s horseowners, the criteria are:
- how much does it cost?
2 how long do the shoes stay on? - relative to 1&2 how sound is the horse, with lower cost and long shoeing cycles making it more acceptable for the horse to exhibit some degree of unsoundness so long as over the shoeing interval, the horse shows some improvement.
Where is Det. Joe Friday when you need him…?
[QUOTE=Rick Burten;6083972]
Mushroom Fertilizer.:lol:
What if the horse was barefoot and trimmed by a non-farrier and the feet looked like that?
That would be an excuse ( but still ashame) if it was a non-farrier as in non-hoof care provider. But if you are referring to a barefoot trimmer I doubt there would be that much imbalance. The horse would have straightened most out on his own.
Before making the condemnation, did you see the feet when they were first trimmed and shod? What if the horse had been barefoot?
I did not see them but certainly they could not be worst. If the horse was bare foot most of the excess would have taken care of itself.
The horse may have been actually able to help balance himself out a bit.
Unfortunately, for many of today’s horse owners, the criteria are:
- how much does it cost?
2 how long do the shoes stay on? - relative to 1&2 how sound is the horse, with lower cost and long shoeing cycles making it more acceptable for the horse to exhibit some degree of unsoundness so long as over the shoeing interval, the horse shows some improvement.
If an owner wants cheap and long I send them else where or give them an option. I could not defend this type of work, this is why many abandon the shoes and even a half ass trimmer can make an improvement on these feet in no time.
Where is Det. Joe Friday when you need him…?
He is being held in detention…!
.[/QUOTE]
.
[QUOTE=Sansena;5884007]
Sorry, I’d pass.
Founder that’s of undetermined origin frightens the snot out of me. [/QUOTE]
Especially when the seller is trying to convince you it is due to the farrier. That’s a load of huey. I’d suggest you find a trainer you can trust to find you a sounds horse. Not one that would knowingly sell you one with a made up excuse as to the cause.
Horses that founder can have issues later as the hoof grows out. Abscesses being one of those issues. So, even though the horse might be recovered, you could still see things pop up in several months that result in at least a temporarily lame horse.
If you really like the horse then perhaps you could offer to free lease it and and pay board and expenses for routine vaccinations and farrier but definitely exclude any other vet bills.
Before making the condemnation, did you see the feet when they were first trimmed and shod? What if the horse had been barefoot?
NOW RICK…we are friends(I hope) but really if this is really at seven weeks, (or even 8 or 9) do you really think it is possible that the foot was trimmed and shod even CLOSE to correctly? come on…
and in this case I have to agree with Charlie in the statement saying that kind of job IS what drives a lot of people to “anti shoes”. Have you ever seen a job any better than that mess as a shoeing example on a barefoot website? I have not.
That someone took money for that job is beyond shame.
We are. 
but really if this is really at seven weeks, (or even 8 or 9) do you really think it is possible that the foot was trimmed and shod even CLOSE to correctly? come on…
And therein lies the rub. We don’t know how long its been. And absent more than an anonymous writer’s word, we won’t.
and in this case I have to agree with Charlie in the statement saying that kind of job IS what drives a lot of people to “anti shoes”.
As I have to say, “It Depends”.
Have you ever seen a job any better than that mess as a shoeing example on a barefoot website? I have not.
Neither have I. :eek:
But why would a barefooter, especially one of the BUA persuasion, post a photo of a well shod horse? It would contradict everything they stand for and/or trying to prove.
Originally Posted by Rick Burten
Mushroom Fertilizer.
What if the horse was barefoot and trimmed by a non-farrier and the feet looked like that?
CP: That would be an excuse ( but still ashame) if it was a non-farrier as in non-hoof care provider.
Excuses are usually not reasons
CP: But if you are referring to a barefoot trimmer I doubt there would be that much imbalance. The horse would have straightened most out on his own.
Spucatum tauri with a possible exception being if the horse was living in an arid, hard scrabble environment and was ‘free ranging’. Wait a minute. Doesn’t that pretty much describe the ferals of the desert southwest? Seen what some of their hooves look like, Charlie? IOW, you have just committed a logical fallacy. …
RB: Before making the condemnation, did you see the feet when they were first trimmed and shod? What if the horse had been barefoot?
CP: I did not see them but certainly they could not be worst.
Nothing could be further from the truth. And anyone who’s seen very many hooves would never utter such nonsense.
CP: If the horse was bare foot most of the excess would have taken care of itself. The horse may have been actually able to help balance himself out a bit.
Repeating a logical fallacy/nonsense a thousand times does not change the fact that it remains a logical fallacy/nonsense.
CP: I could not defend this type of work,…
Perhaps if you knew all the facts, you might state differently
CP: …this is why many abandon the shoes and even a half ass trimmer can make an improvement on these feet in no time.
You assume facts not in evidence
RB: Where is Det. Joe Friday when you need him…?
CP: He is being held in detention…!
No wonder the facts of the case are lacking and cockamamie opinions are running rampant.
Rick,
Is it possible that you are seeing some talent in that shoe job?
[QUOTE=Charlie Piccione;6085194]
Rick,
Is it possible that you are seeing some talent in that shoe job?[/QUOTE]
I’m seeing the issues you and others have enumerated, and perhaps, a few more. I’m just not ready to jump to conclusions based on the narrative provided.
Okay, so we all agree current farrier is ick (which I kind of already knew; really frustrating to not be able to do anything about it since I don’t own her). If this is obviously a club foot, would it change anyone’s mind about buying this mare? Is a club foot easier to manage than a horse with possible chronic laminitis? I was planning on dabbling in the eventing world and maybe some hunter shows… would this lifestyle be too hard on a (properly managed) club footed horse?
Also, any recommendations for farriers in the Seattle/Bellevue area would be appreciated.
If this is obviously a club foot, would it change anyone’s mind about buying this mare?
It might, but I woud get Xrays of that foot to assess the health of the coffin bone before making the decision. That would give you a better prognosis on potential long term soundness and the need for special shoeing, etc,
Is a club foot easier to manage than a horse with possible chronic laminitis?
Yes, much easier with a good farrier.
I was planning on dabbling in the eventing world and maybe some hunter shows… would this lifestyle be too hard on a (properly managed) club footed horse?
If the coffin bone is very badly remodelled (it happens in mis managed club feet over time then jumping may not be in her best interest.
Also, any recommendations for farriers in the Seattle/Bellevue area would be appreciated.
Can’t help you there off hand, but you can ceck te farier list for te Equine Lamenes Prevention Organization and see if there are any certified farriers in that area. Preferebly certifed at the lameness specialist level (CLS) The website is www.e-hoofcare.com
Scroll down the left side of the home page there is a link to the list.
